A Lot of Bills stars Were at OTA's But 1 Star Was Not .

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Emanuel Sanders doesn't even know the play book. Where's the outrage? He missed last week. 

 

There are plenty of mandatory practices before the season starts. 

 

Well if you want my view on Emmanuel Sanders.... I was against his signing and think he should be here too. 

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well if you want my view on Emmanuel Sanders.... I was against his signing and think he should be here too. 

What was your reasons against the signing?

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

What was your reasons against the signing?

 

I thought it was too much money for a 34 year old who had fewer than 800 yards receiving last year despite his team having a lack of alternative pass game options in Michael Thomas's absence and I think the Bills should have been looking for a downfield speed option as a compliment to Diggs, Beasley and Davies rather than another shifty route runner. I didn't hate cutting Brown (the injuries with him were a legit concern) but if they were doing that the replacement in my view should have been more a John Brown type. If I have one criticism of Beane it is that he does have a bit of a fetish for vets in the very twilight of their careers. A year ago I said I thought they had overpaid for Addison and I was proven right to the extent that his production went down again from his final year in Carolina and then they asked him to take a pay cut to stay for 2021. I fear it is a similar story with Sanders. 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought it was too much money for a 34 year old who had fewer than 800 yards receiving last year despite his team having a lack of alternative pass game options in Michael Thomas's absence and I think the Bills should have been looking for a downfield speed option as a compliment to Diggs, Beasley and Davies rather than another shifty route runner. I didn't hate cutting Brown (the injuries with him were a legit concern) but if they were doing that the replacement in my view should have been more a John Brown type. If I have one criticism of Beane it is that he does have a bit of a fetish for vets in the very twilight of their careers. A year ago I said I thought they had overpaid for Addison and I was proven right to the extent that his production went down again from his final year in Carolina and then they asked him to take a pay cut to stay for 2021. I fear it is a similar story with Sanders. 

 

How much did you think it was that KC got physical with our WR and Brown didn't seem to be able to get off?  My thought was Beane was willing to give up some vertical speed to get someone that can beat press.

 

Are you even convinced that Addison makes the roster even after the pay cut?  Hughes, AJ, Oba, Boogie, Rosseau and Addison almost seems one too many.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought it was too much money for a 34 year old who had fewer than 800 yards receiving last year despite his team having a lack of alternative pass game options in Michael Thomas's absence and I think the Bills should have been looking for a downfield speed option as a compliment to Diggs, Beasley and Davies rather than another shifty route runner. I didn't hate cutting Brown (the injuries with him were a legit concern) but if they were doing that the replacement in my view should have been more a John Brown type. If I have one criticism of Beane it is that he does have a bit of a fetish for vets in the very twilight of their careers. A year ago I said I thought they had overpaid for Addison and I was proven right to the extent that his production went down again from his final year in Carolina and then they asked him to take a pay cut to stay for 2021. I fear it is a similar story with Sanders. 

Evaluate Josh Allen. Yes he has the big arm and can throw it a mile but he is most successful throwing to players like Beasley, Diggs, and Sanders. Players that win in the short and intermediate game with route running. Sanders is a perfect fit. Age can derail his career at any moment so there is concern but his game matches Allen well. 

 

Even though downfield speed is lacking, I was looking more for the run after catch addition to the offense. We don't really have someone that puts fear in a defense with the ball in their hands. 

 

Also Diggs can deliver downfield as well. Davis made some plays as well downfield. 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

How much did you think it was that KC got physical with our WR and Brown didn't seem to be able to get off?  My thought was Beane was willing to give up some vertical speed to get someone that can beat press.

 

Are you even convinced that Addison makes the roster even after the pay cut?  Hughes, AJ, Oba, Boogie, Rosseau and Addison almost seems one too many.

 

I think Addison likely does but he is not a lock. 

 

On Sanders, it is a fair point, but I worry that without much of a run game and not a massive vertical game we do become a bit one dimensional on offense as what I'd call an "intermediate" passing scheme. And had they brought Sanders in at half of what he is making I'd have been fine with it. $6m for a 34 year old #2 receiver on a team that is reaching the stage of having to make some trickier cap decisions was just a bit rich for my tastes. I should be clear that in no way do I think Emmanuel Sanders sucks. Indeed I advocated going after him 2 years ago when we didn't yet have Stef and he was on the trade block in Denver. I just think he really is at the tail end of his career and the style fit and money for me were not ideal. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Addison likely does but he is not a lock. 

 

On Sanders, it is a fair point, but I worry that without much of a run game and not a massive vertical game we do become a bit one dimensional on offense as what I'd call an "intermediate" passing scheme. And had they brought Sanders in at half of what he is making I'd have been fine with it. $6m for a 34 year old #2 receiver on a team that is reaching the stage of having to make some trickier cap decisions was just a bit rich for my tastes. I should be clear that in no way do I think Emmanuel Sanders sucks. Indeed I advocated going after him 2 years ago when we didn't yet have Stef and he was on the trade block in Denver. I just think he really is at the tail end of his career and the style fit and money for me were not ideal. 

Diggs can win deep though. 

[Warcodered]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's neither encouraging or discouraging to me.    The fact that his head looks twice the size that it did before could mean he's just at a post-career weight goal.    Or it could be construed that he realizes that there isn't much demand for traffic cones in a pass happy league and wants to extend his career as an active DT.    That seems a little less likely because if he played well he'd get the same amount of money over the next 2 seasons as if he got cut.

 

I'd remind everyone that it doesn't take much to look good in one take of a short burst of activity.    Below is 53 year old Mike Tyson.   "Everyone's got a plan (for social media)"

Didn't Tyson dismantle the guy he faced in the fight that was set up? How is this a good example?

[eball]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Addison likely does but he is not a lock. 

 

On Sanders, it is a fair point, but I worry that without much of a run game and not a massive vertical game we do become a bit one dimensional on offense as what I'd call an "intermediate" passing scheme. And had they brought Sanders in at half of what he is making I'd have been fine with it. $6m for a 34 year old #2 receiver on a team that is reaching the stage of having to make some trickier cap decisions was just a bit rich for my tastes. I should be clear that in no way do I think Emmanuel Sanders sucks. Indeed I advocated going after him 2 years ago when we didn't yet have Stef and he was on the trade block in Denver. I just think he really is at the tail end of his career and the style fit and money for me were not ideal. 

 

Re: Sanders, the numbers don’t really suggest he is in decline.  In several areas his numbers last season were at or better than his career averages.  I look back at the KC game and imagine if we had a healthy Sanders with his short-area separation ability.  Of course, we now know that none of the Bills’ top three WRs were anywhere close to full strength, but Sanders trumps Brown in overall skill.  Folks can debate the contract $$ but I don’t understand the “style fit” concern.

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Diggs can win deep though. 

 

He can, but to me Diggs is your most talented receiver so you want the flexibility to use him in every possible way. I don't want Stefon Diggs running deep routes to open things up for lesser players to get the ball underneath. It is the Sammy Watkins decoy argument all over again. If Diggs is going deep a lot they need to be throwing deep to him a lot and that isn't really the staple of the offense. I really want a #2 or #3 guy who can go deep, be a legit threat deep on occasion but run routes sometimes as a decoy to release Stef. We didn't have that much last year because Brown was injured so we are not "losing" anything as such, but I thought that was the chance to add to the weaponry much more so than Emmanuel Sanders playing a kind of "Stefon Diggs visited by the ghost of Christmas future" on the other side of the field. 

10 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Re: Sanders, the numbers don’t really suggest he is in decline.  In several areas his numbers last season were at or better than his career averages.  I look back at the KC game and imagine if we had a healthy Sanders with his short-area separation ability.  Of course, we now know that none of the Bills’ top three WRs were anywhere close to full strength, but Sanders trumps Brown in overall skill.  Folks can debate the contract $$ but I don’t understand the “style fit” concern.

 

I saw lots of the Saints last year. He is in decline. Not fall off a cliff bad. He could still come here and put up 650-700 yards and have 4 or 5 touchdowns, but his style means those are going to be touches that Diggs or Beasley got last year. It isn't a different dimension that I think a healthy John Brown last year would have brought or a player in that mould would bring. 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He can, but to me Diggs is your most talented receiver so you want the flexibility to use him in every possible way. I don't want Stefon Diggs running deep routes to open things up for lesser players to get the ball underneath. It is the Sammy Watkins decoy argument all over again. If Diggs is going deep a lot they need to be throwing deep to him a lot and that isn't really the staple of the offense. I really want a #2 or #3 guy who can go deep, be a legit threat deep on occasion but run routes sometimes as a decoy to release Stef. We didn't have that much last year because Brown was injured so we are not "losing" anything as such, but I thought that was the chance to add to the weaponry much more so than Emmanuel Sanders playing a kind of "Stefon Diggs visited by the ghost of Christmas future" on the other side of the field. 

You don't need him running deep. The whole point you're making is to take a safety out of the box to open up the field. Diggs already does that. The Bills rarely face a loaded box. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You don't need him running deep. The whole point you're making is to take a safety out of the box to open up the field. Diggs already does that. The Bills rarely face a loaded box. 

 

they rarely face a loaded box - true - but they do face safeties who cheat up. I think your suggestion takes our best receiver and asks him to do too much dirty work for others. I wanted a compliment for Stef who made his job easier. 

[ColoradoBills]

51 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I thought it was too much money for a 34 year old who had fewer than 800 yards receiving last year despite his team having a lack of alternative pass game options in Michael Thomas's absence and I think the Bills should have been looking for a downfield speed option as a compliment to Diggs, Beasley and Davies rather than another shifty route runner. I didn't hate cutting Brown (the injuries with him were a legit concern) but if they were doing that the replacement in my view should have been more a John Brown type. If I have one criticism of Beane it is that he does have a bit of a fetish for vets in the very twilight of their careers. A year ago I said I thought they had overpaid for Addison and I was proven right to the extent that his production went down again from his final year in Carolina and then they asked him to take a pay cut to stay for 2021. I fear it is a similar story with Sanders. 

 

I watched a lot of NO last year and Brees (even when not injured) was on a steep downhill slide.  Sanders still was at a 75% catch rate.

I know (and agree in theory) the Bills have a perceived "speed" need however Diggs, Sanders and Davis can all get deep.  Long yardage

receptions can come a lot of different ways and my hope is Daboll can scheme these guys route trees to give them all chances down field.

 

If done properly it may even put more of a challenge against the free safety resulting in an increase of big yardage plays.

At least that is my hope.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

they rarely face a loaded box - true - but they do face safeties who cheat up. I think your suggestion takes our best receiver and asks him to do too much dirty work for others. I wanted a compliment for Stef who made his job easier. 

I agree that another legit weapon in the passing game, preferably with speed, would benefit everyone. I was very concerned when John Brown was injured. My fears have been lowered a bit with how the offense performed without his speed. It's still in the back of my mind but I really believe Josh is best with quick twitchy WR's over straight deep threats. 

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I watched a lot of NO last year and Brees (even when not injured) was on a steep downhill slide.  Sanders still was at a 75% catch rate.

I know (and agree in theory) the Bills have a perceived "speed" need however Diggs, Sanders and Davis can all get deep.  Long yardage

receptions can come a lot of different ways and my hope is Daboll can scheme these guys route trees to give them all chances down field.

 

If done properly it may even put more of a challenge against the free safety resulting in an increase of big yardage plays.

At least that is my hope.

 

Agree Brees was done. He was done at the end of 2019 and I said as much. That said I did see a decline in Sanders too. Not that he was done, like Brees was, but he isn't to my eye even as explosive as he was in his half season with the 49ers in 2019. To me it was too much money for a guy who wasn't the ideal scheme fit and is 34. That's all. I don't hate it, but it isn't a move I'd have made. 

[ColoradoBills]

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree Brees was done. He was done at the end of 2019 and I said as much. That said I did see a decline in Sanders too. Not that he was done, like Brees was, but he isn't to my eye even as explosive as he was in his half season with the 49ers in 2019. To me it was too much money for a guy who wasn't the ideal scheme fit and is 34. That's all. I don't hate it, but it isn't a move I'd have made. 

 

My hope for Sanders is that Josh's arm rejuvenates him for this year.

His career started with Big Ben and Manning in the first 6 years and then for the past 5 he has had to catch balls from

Lynch, Siemian, Osweiler, Keenum, Flacco, Garoppolo, Hill and a declining Brees.  That's a pretty bad list.

 

I'm hoping he is pumped up to catch passes from Allen and win another ring this year.

[TBBills]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well if you want my view on Emmanuel Sanders.... I was against his signing and think he should be here too. 

He is here.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Evaluate Josh Allen. Yes he has the big arm and can throw it a mile but he is most successful throwing to players like Beasley, Diggs, and Sanders. Players that win in the short and intermediate game with route running. Sanders is a perfect fit. Age can derail his career at any moment so there is concern but his game matches Allen well. 

 

Even though downfield speed is lacking, I was looking more for the run after catch addition to the offense. We don't really have someone that puts fear in a defense with the ball in their hands. 

 

Also Diggs can deliver downfield as well. Davis made some plays as well downfield. 

So working on his deep pass game is something Josh has to develop more to be a complete threat as a QB.  Although, IMO he showed it early in the season then it went away with the sprained AC joint then Zbrown was injured and never got it back

 

I think teams that were bringing  the pressure were able to neutralize Diggs as a deep threat with pressure and blanket Bease as a short option.  Knox even more.  One adjustment in the Steelers game was to put Diggs on the short routes so Josh had an option.

 

I think the Bills notion is that Diggs can function as a deep route guy if there is another wiley vet getting open underneath.  I know that’s debated here.  Time will tell.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I saw lots of the Saints last year. He is in decline. Not fall off a cliff bad. He could still come here and put up 650-700 yards and have 4 or 5 touchdowns, but his style means those are going to be touches that Diggs or Beasley got last year. It isn't a different dimension that I think a healthy John Brown last year would have brought or a player in that mould would bring. 

I understand the different player viewpoint, but as a counterpoint Diggs and Beasley were both beat up by the playoffs.  Those routes cause a lot of punishment to the WR.  The Bills may have figured splitting that load 3 ways keeps guys healthier.

 

Again, I understand the argument.  I also can understand where the Bills thought Sanders was a key add. 

 

It's one of those "time will tell" things.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Thanks. I'm not a major Panthers follower, never have been. Good to know that a guy who watched a lot thinks Lotulelei mattered there the way he does in Buffalo.

 

I think Lotulelei mattered in Carolina but I thought his play kinda fell off in B'lo, for whatever reason.

 

35 minutes ago, TBBills said:

He is here.

 

Since when?