Who thinks teaching is a hard job?

[reddogblitz]

7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I speak at career days in schools on regular basis and I tell the kids: find something you like to do and you won’t work a day in your life.

 

Good job speaking at career fairs.  I'm sure its rewarding for you and helps young people.

 

I do hear the line  find something you like to do and you won’t work a day in your life.  And I suppose its true.

 

I got a little different advice from my father which has worked for me.  Learn to do something people want to pay you to do.  A marketable skill is they key to a decent life at least financially.  Of course it should be something you like but it doesn't have to be your passion.   

 

How many of us who have been working for 15 years or so and like our jobs OK are doing what we thought we wanted to do at 17 (besides @transplantbillsfan)?  Not me.  I wanted to be a famous jazz musician.  I auditioned for and got into the USMC band program.  After that I went to North Texas State University, one of the best jazz schools in the country.  I worked really hard at it but I just didn't have what the top cats had.  At that point I followed my Dad's advice and got into Business Computer Information Systems because I knew people would pay me a good wage to do it and I got an A in the first class.   And they have.  

 

Since they do, I can support my family and still follow my passion playing music.  Cuz I have some spare coin I can afford decent instruments.  I play often and get a blast out of it.  I know some other guys who stayed true to their passion in music that are OK musicians and they play gigs at night, work day jobs, teach lessons, or anything else they can do for money.  Seems that would take a decent chunk of the fun out of it.

 

I guess my point would be, find something you like but make sure its something people want to pay you to do.  So that's what I tell young people when they listen to me which is rarely which probably contributes to why I voted that teaching is a hard job.

Edited March 26, 2021 by reddogblitz

[BillStime]

On 3/25/2021 at 3:30 PM, SoCal Deek said:

Cut the crap!  My wife is a teacher. She is paid very well and knows it. And....the reason they pay for their own supplies is because the teacher's union has decided they would rather have the money now, and invested into their lifelong pensions. Your complaint shouldn't be with the public...it should be with your union! 

Cut the crap? In defending your freakn wife and of all people - you know damn well how hard these people work. 
 

Edited May 26, 2022 by BillStime

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Cut the crap? In defending your freakn wife and of all people - you know damn well how hard these people work. 
 

gfys

What? Have trouble reading? Did I say that either you or my wife didn’t work hard? No, I don’t believe that I did. Get over yourself. 

 

[BillStime]

2 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What? Have trouble reading? Did I say that either you or my wife didn’t work hard? No, I don’t believe that I did. Get over yourself. 

 

 
 Cut the crap tough guy

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, BillStime said:

 
 Cut the crap tough guy

Ha! Tough guy? In what way? I answered the poll as a yes vote: teachers have a hard job, because they do. So? What’s your problem now? Assuming that you’re a teacher and you have a problem with how much money you make, may I ask if the pay scale was a secret to you? I’m sure it’s posted on the internet for every public school district in the country. Maybe you should change school districts. Maybe you should get an advanced degree. Maybe you should work during your summer break. Maybe you should aspire to a department head position at the District Office or become a site administrator. 

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ha! Tough guy? In what way? I answered the poll as a yes vote: teachers have a hard job, because they do. So? What’s your problem now? Assuming that you’re a teacher and you have a problem with how much money you make, may I ask if the pay scale was a secret to you? I’m sure it’s posted on the internet for every public school district in the country. Maybe you should change school districts. Maybe you should get an advanced degree. Maybe you should work during your summer break. Maybe you should aspire to a department head position at the District Office or become a site administrator. 

Maybe you should just shut . . . . 

 

Im not a teacher but my entire family are educators and administrators - I know first hand how challenging these careers are.

 

Now run along tough guy and go talk to kids about finding their passions.  You’re the last person I would ever put in front of students.
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Maybe you should just shut . . . . 

 

Im not a teacher but my entire family are educators and administrators - I know first hand how challenging these careers are.

 

Now run along tough guy and go talk to kids about finding their passions.  You’re the last person I would ever put in front of students.
 

 

Nice. As usual a typically horrible response. Again, with the ‘tough guy’ stuff. So you’re NOT a teacher? Then what’s this all about? I applaud your family members. I’m guessing they love what they do, just like my wife. Isn’t there another side of your bed you can get up on? Or is it your ‘passion’ to spend the day whining at everyone about everything. If so, it’s time to change majors. 

Edited March 26, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[oldmanfan]

It’s an easy job until you have to do it yourself

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

It’s an easy job until you have to do it yourself

This poll got almost complete consensus. (Very rare these days.) I’m not sure what much of this dialogue is about. Is there an argument here? 

Edited March 26, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

This poll got almost complete consensus. (Very rare these days.) I’m not sure what much of this dialogue is about. Is there an argument here? 

Some people, if you see a black cat, will argue that it’s white just to argue.

[GaryPinC]

15 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well we're 10 month employees... so that 10 weeks or so of summer isn't technically "time off."  And if you're wondering how that makes sense teachers then get paid for all 12 months if they're only 10 month employees, it's because we get a percentage extracted from every paycheck during the school year that goes to our summer pay.

 

That's how it works where I live.

 

In some places I've heard teachers can choose to get all their pay in 10 months and not get paid for 2 months so that they get more in each paycheck during the school year.

 

 

How many years of tenure did this teacher have?

 

$86,000 for a 33 year old teacher who's been teaching 10 years is very different from $86,000 for a 63 year old teacher who's been teaching 40 years.

 

 

Can't speak to this because this wasn't what happened for us.  We were given 2 hours off from work to get a covid vaccination if we needed it.  I scheduled mine for late afternoon on a Friday so I didn't have to take time off.

 

One of my best friends is a "gym teacher," and he gets pissed any time you call him that.  He's one of the best teachers I know and does some amazing things with his classes.

 

Also... as I just asked the poster above... how many years of tenure did this teacher have?  Just saying "my teacher made this much" leaves out important context.

 

And finally, I think it's strange that your teachers are talking to you guys about how much money they make.

 

Honestly, I don't have an opinion as to how they structure your salary.  I hope it works for you.  Teachers have a huge, huge amount of time off as I mentioned in my earlier post.  If I were a teacher I would deeply appreciate that.  Teaching is a difficult job, not here to tell you otherwise.  Simply that the things teacher's standardly complain about (taking work home, long hours, crappy administration/bosses, micromanagement,etc), well it's a bad look to most of us in the working world as we have more than our share of that too.  We just don't B word like some teachers feel compelled to do.

 

And thank you for the passion and effort you put in to teaching.  Easy to tell that you're one of the good ones.

 

As far as my son's second grade teacher, I believe she was late 30's early 40's.  I was googling her and found her salary in a public document.  I believe here in Ohio teacher's salaries are public info though I've never tried to look them up for other teachers.  That's my only context, unfortunately.

[GaryPinC]

16 hours ago, BillStime said:

Are you a teacher?

Nope.  I'm a scientist, bachelor's degree biochemisty.  

 

Are you a teacher?

[Orlando Tim]

38 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Nope.  I'm a scientist, bachelor's degree biochemisty.  

 

Are you a teacher?

Gary Billstime is not a teacher but is just your basic internet troll. He when challenged with facts and logic will respond by calling you tough guy or stupid. Don't respond to him he is not worth it.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

 Isn’t there another side of your bed you can get up on? 

This one made me chuckle 

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Gary Billstime is not a teacher but is just your basic internet troll. He when challenged with facts and logic will respond by calling you tough guy or stupid. Don't respond to him he is not worth it.

Yah, I missed him answering it above.  And I have seen him engage and discuss at times, other times he just enjoys obstructing a discussion.  Same as Tibs.  I'm still willing to attempt to engage but yes, we'll see if I end up drawing your same conclusions👍.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

17 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

And this is ultimately the point, isn't it?  

 

Everyone is looking at every job from an outside perspective.  You relate your view the teaching isn't hard, but working for UPS is.  I'm curious: do you think you're actually qualified to judge whether either job is hard?  If so, why?

"Qualified" to be recognized as a world renown expert on the subject of "Is Being a Teacher Hard?", no.  Qualified to offer an opinion on a message board where the question posed was "Do you think teaching is a hard job?", where you yourself wrote several paragraphs on the relative nature of hardness (gross--and damn you for making me type this), love for ones avocation as it relates to hardness (disgusting) , and your days as a pizza delivery man, I'm as qualified as anyone in the world.  

 

 

Quote

 

The truth is I really don't know much about what a UPS worker does.  From a distance, that kinda job doesn't sound all that "hard" in the way I think the OP is asking the question.  It actually sounds similar to the pizza delivery job I used to have.  Get some good podcasts or music and listen to it while spending hours on the road with occasional customer service?  That doesn't sound hard... it sounds boring to me.

 

But boring would equal hard to me.

 

And I'm really not trying to diminish what your family member does.  You only gave me a rough outline and that's what I went with because I don't actually know what they do.

To the bolded, I understand--emphasis on 'to me'.  So, when considering and contemplating the job being hard, it's a presumed 10-12 hour day, every day.  There is downward pressure on efficiency ("More, we need more, we need faster"), the risk off accident and/or injury a daily occupational (and thus employment) hazard, a high likelihood of physical impairment due to repetitive motion, gps tracking of whereabouts, time spent at a given stop/on break etc and the downward pressure of management on reducing time across the board, and in this particular case, concerns about guarantees as it relates to income once retirement commences.   Don't get me wrong--I'll mention the drive along the ocean with the air pods, tank top and breaks for sun tanning next time I speak to my relative, but I got the feeling that wasn't the vibe in the upstate NY city in which he operates.  

 

So--my definition of what constitutes hard employment may be different from yours because we have different perspectives.  That does not equate to real easy, no big deal, unworthy or anything else.  I respect the job and the people who do it, I really don't know how else to say it. 

Quote

 

But as for teachers... why is it that everyone thinks they know so much about the teaching profession?  Is it because we were all once students and so we saw it firsthand?  Or because we're seeing it now secondhand as parents and we don't see the Einstein we know our children really are being produced so we pin it on the teachers who must be lazy and terrible?

 

I can't speak on being a UPS driver.  But to be a good teacher you need to be good in front of a crowd, have incredible patience, be a great actor, document everything all the time, be a great faciliatator, have your subject matter down, be increasingly creative with curriculuum, etc.

 

All those things and more always applied to teaching, but from my experience teaching is getting harder rather than easier because there are just increasing demands as far as administrations and standardized tests go and there are more and more helicopter parents who automatically believe every word their child tells them nowadays.

People have opinions on everything, from politics to lifestyle choices to cell phones to cost of the gas bill and so on.  Why would you assume that wouldn't be the case with education? 

 

Again, let's be clear:  I can't speak to the folks on the big Island, but I never said, suggested, or implied that teachers are lazy and terrible.  I've had no interaction with any educator and administrator that remotely came close to that sort of conversation, rather, I interact respectfully and expect nothing but the same in return.  My children had teacher's that they (and we) loved, I've had them in my life and they are a gift indeed.  Does that mean nothing else can ever be discussed? 

 

Last weekend, I hung out with an old friend who is a middle school math teacher.  We have conversations about these subjects and miraculously, we got through it without punches thrown, tears shed or anguish in our hearts.   His general philosophy is that there are some very good teachers and some very soft teachers, and he respects the good ones and the soft ones bug him more every year.  

 

Quote

 

I said this in another post... I friggin love my job, so I don't like the word "hard."

 

But it's a helluva challenge to be a good teacher.

So...you wouldn't use the word 'hard' based on your definition, I didn't use the word 'hard' in my definition, but we make the skip, hop and jump to "teachers are lazy and terrible" when I said nothing of the sort?

 

Next poll question:  Is teaching a challenging job?

 

My answer: Yes!  Of course it is.  Most jobs are challenging.  I own a small business, I manage expectations, people, salaries, unexpected diversions, supply chain logistics, regulators, the odd creepy individual, retirement plans, terminations, hiring, facility management, and pressure for production.  My job is challenging, but I wouldn't describe it as hard.  Maybe that's just an attitudinal thing. 

 

 

Quote

 

 

So I will say this: I happened upon one of those random state by state rankings as far as teachers go in terms of compensation and NY was #1... so that made me at least start to understand why there are those like you who feel this way about teachers.

 

With that said, I very strongly believe this:  Generally, you get what you pay for.

 

I graduated from a public High School in a suburb of Rochester.  It was honestly a fantastic school and I got a fantastic education and had fantastic extracurricular experiences.  I also know that there were teachers making over $100k at that school... obviously older and closer to retirement, but that's still a lot of money, especially for WNY.

 

But ya know what?  I got an education at one of the best public schools in NY.... so that compensation makes sense to me.

 

Quote

 

So... was that school great because it attracted the best of the best with higher compensation or was there higher compensation because the school district at some point discovered they had great teachers?

 

I tend to think the former is true.

 

I had to come back and edit my response here because with regards to the spirit of the original post, I got off track and should have stayed on track.  Kudos to @SoTier for pointing that out.  

Quote

So cynical.  Why do you automatically assume that "slush fund" wasn't going somewhere useful?

 

One thing that my school was able to do a few years ago with a somewhat similar "slush fund" was get ACs in every single room at our school and get Solar panels on top of our library to power the school.

I'm not all that complicated.  I read the proposal. I noted the plan with respect to infrastructure and things like air conditioning (I'm not anti-air conditioning, plumbing, roofing or security for our children btw) , and noted the line item of $9,000,000 just in case.  When I read the part where they indicated "If we don't need it, trust us we'll just spend it" I came to the conclusion it was a slush fund.   My assumption was that since we were dealing with professionals and budget referendums, the $34,000,000 quite righteously included projections for cost overruns and unforeseen events, so the actual need was probably 10% less than the ask.    I understand that. So, actual cost $30m, with cushion $34m.  Slush fund $9m.  Too much. 

 

Then again, when my house was built and the agreed on price was $255,000, I probably would not have even blinked had the builder told to give him $320,000 just in case.  I'd have just given it to him so he didn't call me cynical.  

 

Quote

 

This kinda thing was a fantastic investment.  Hawai'i has the best weather on the planet, but August and September can be brutal (especially in certain schools in leeward locations on the island) and frankly that kinda heat that I taught in--I'm sweating... students are sweating and getting tired because of the weather--simply isn't conducive to student learning.  That's not me.  That's brain research.

 

Maybe your district was going to use that money to fund a drug cartel... I have no clue.  But as I just said, you pay for what you get... so why would bonuses for teachers even have been all that bad?  Because you didn't have kids in school anymore at that point? 

Yup--drug cartel.  That's obviously what I was thinking.  I actually confronted a teacher from the middle school, but did so in the aforementioned rational and reasonable approach.  "Hey Mrs. Smith.  You teach math.  I saw the $9m the admin is shaking us down for.  You're setting up a meth lab in the catacombs below the gym, right?".  She didn't answer, honestly she looked a bit concerned and my wife was like "No cartel talk in church!".  

 

Bonus to employees on a budget referendum for building and facilities would be bad for the same reason hidden and deceptive bonuses are bad in other industries.  The appearance of impropriety is obvious.  

 

Quote

The most common argument I see from people pissed about tax dollars going towards education is because they either don't have kids or are sending kids to private schools.

 

Silly... stupid argument.  It's the same silliness you hear from those who don't want to pay any taxes but still want all the benefits of our country.

It is perfectly understandable that you would see 'choice' with respect to cost and choice of schools as a silly argument.  You're a beneficiary of the system, and I'd likely think it a silly argument if I was in your shoes. 

 

Quote

 

 

So "a relatively small percentage of the general population can be a successful teacher" doesn't make it hard... and you think that's true for most jobs?

 

You're going to have to explain that.

 

So a "relatively small percentage of the general population can be a successful" at almost anything, according to you?

 

So no job is actually hard, according to you?

I already indicated what might constitute a hard job, Transpy.   I'll add a few others.  Nurse.  Trauma nurse/doctor.  Commercial fisherperson.  Farmer.  Corrections officer.  Police officer.  Bomb squad bomb dude.  Fireman.  

 

I'm not sure why you see my comment as at all outrageous or offensive?  A small percentage of individuals can do a job well, but that doesn't make the job innately hard as I see it.  Based on your criteria, btw,  I'd have been an exceptional teacher.  

Quote

 

Every single existing job you would just characterize as "not easy..." other than your family member's UPS job, of course. That's hard.

 

Please explain your criteria because I'm sure I'm not the only one confused by some mixed messaging on your part.

 

I don't think you're confused...I think you're being argumentative.  I think that mostly because, as I mentioned previously, you wrote several paragraphs about the same subject when a simple "Yes, being a teacher is hard!" or "Not hard, but challenging!" would have sufficed.  By the way, I never said the UPS gig was the only hard job in the world--and just in case you think my secondary list is all-inclusive, for the record it is not. 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by leh-nerd skin-erd

[Chef Jim]

7 hours ago, BillStime said:

 
 Cut the crap tough guy

 

From the guy who just told someone to go ***** themselves.   Bwahahahahahahaha!!

5 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Nope.  I'm a scientist, bachelor's degree biochemisty.  

 

Are you a teacher?

 

He can't teach so he consults.  

[BillStime]

26 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

From the guy who just told someone to go ***** themselves.   Bwahahahahahahaha!!

 

He can't teach so he consults.  

 

Yes, I consult.

 

I did teach a class at Nichols one year  - absolutely loved it... the teacher I worked w there couldn’t believe I wasn’t pursing a career in education but my passion ultimately led me to consulting major IT transformations.

Edited March 26, 2021 by BillStime

[Chef Jim]

50 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Yes, I consult.

 

I did teach a class at Nichols one year  - absolutely loved it... the teacher I worked w there couldn’t believe I wasn’t pursing a career in education but my passion ultimately led me to consulting major IT transformations.

 

So my quote from a couple days ago was spot on?  Cool!  

 

BTW I do all three!!  

Edited March 26, 2021 by Chef Jim

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

21 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Because I pointed out some reasons why teaching is hard, and you don't think it really is?  It's just "not easy" in your view which is, at best a backhanded compliment, that allows you to complain about teacher compensation:

 

 

I had responded to you, considered what you wrote after taking care of some other tasks and realized what you were talking about with respect to the op allowing me to complain. 

 

While I did not intend to complain (and didn't, not about compensation anyway) I can see where it appears that was my goal.  My bad there.  Part of that was actually in response to your post just prior to mine, and an attempt to offer perspective as to why parents (customer) expect certain things from a teacher/school (service provider), whether fair or not.  I think it triggered me when you painted a vivid portrait of working in a school akin to walking the yard at Attica, and who might or might be able to handle a day.    

 

 

21 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

 

FYI, in NYS, teachers need to have a master's degree in order to get their permanent certification, or license to teach.  In order to teach in public schools in NYS -- and get one of those "benefit rich" teaching jobs -- a teacher has to be certified.  Beginning teachers with only bachelor's degrees have 5 years to get their advanced degrees in order to keep their jobs.   This article evaluates the value of master's degree in various occupations in terms of salary (Salaries for Master Degree Holders).  

Pursuit of enlightenment and higher education is a noble goal for the right person.  Pursuit of higher education to achieve a more stable employment situation with regard to salary and benefits is noble as well.  Did we disagree on this issue?