Morse not starting was a "football decision" per McD

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Step 1 of the NFL’s concussion protocol is literally rest and recovery to return to baseline  symptom level.

Is he in the protocol?

 

2 hours ago, TBBills said:

Think I am gonna take a doctor's advice over a few forum posters...

lol which doctor?  What’s the team doctor say about Morse?

[TBBills]

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Is he in the protocol?

 

lol which doctor?  What’s the team doctor say about Morse?

I think all doctors have the same thoughts about concussions... So why are you looking for one that fits your prognosis?

[GoBills808]

41 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Is he in the protocol?

 

Largely irrelevant. I was responding to the idea that rest isn’t part of concussion recovery.

[Mr. WEO]

29 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Largely irrelevant. I was responding to the idea that rest isn’t part of concussion recovery.

 

 

Relevant to the discussion. If he's no longer in the protocol, he does not need to "rest up" due to a concussion.  

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

I think all doctors have the same thoughts about concussions... So why are you looking for one that fits your prognosis?

 

 lol my prognosis?  His doctors have cleared him to play.  Are there other ones I should look for to dispute them?

 

What is your point?

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Relevant to the discussion. If he's no longer in the protocol, he does not need to "rest up" due to a concussion.  

Can't help other than refer you to the original comment to which I replied. For clarification it had nothing to do with whether Morse was in the concussion protocol.

[TBBills]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Relevant to the discussion. If he's no longer in the protocol, he does not need to "rest up" due to a concussion.  

 

 lol my prognosis?  His doctors have cleared him to play.  Are there other ones I should look for to dispute them?

 

What is your point?

Lol talking about saying rest isn't for concussions. Don't act like that

Edited November 24, 2020 by TBBills

[Mr. WEO]

5 hours ago, TBBills said:

You have proof other than McDermott didn't want to risk another concussion with the bye week coming up... We need Mitch for more important games than a game against a NFC opponent.

 

4 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Concussion don’t work like that. You don’t rest up a concussion.  

 

4 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Step 1 of the NFL’s concussion protocol is literally rest and recovery to return to baseline  symptom level.

 

The topic is why he was not played against the Cardinals.  

 

Since he was out of the protocol and medically cleared to play football again, there was no medical reason (and no recommendation) that he "rest" another week (or 2) before playing again.  There is no recommendation for further resting if there is a  nonconference opponent before a bye week.

 

C biscuit was pointing out that out.  The guy had been cleared.  His concussion did not need more resting. Biscuit was not saying no concussions ever need rest.

 

His only real risk reduction would be retirement.  Barring that, McD made it clear that keeping his out was not a medical decision.  He felt the Bills chances were better without him.  Any suggestion that he was kept out for other reasons has been dispelled by McD. 

 

"It was a football decision"..........So the bolded part above is wrong.

Edited November 24, 2020 by Mr. WEO

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

The topic is why he was not played against the Cardinals.  

 

Since he was out of the protocol and medically cleared to play football again, there was no medical reason (and no recommendation) that he "rest" another week (or 2) before playing again.  There is no recommendation for further resting if there is a  nonconference opponent before a bye week.

 

C biscuit was pointing out that out.  The guy had been cleared.  His concussion did not need more resting. 

 

His only real risk reduction would be retirement.  Barring that, McD made it clear that keeping his out was not a medical decision.  He felt the Bills chances were better without him.  Any suggestion that he was kept out for other reasons has been dispelled by McD. 

 

"It was a football decision"..........So the bolded part above is wrong.

Yes you were wrong about concussions we all know that.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, TBBills said:

Yes you were wrong about concussions we all know that.

 

What part was wrong?

[TBBills]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

What part was wrong?

Are you a Brick wall by chance?

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

Are you a Brick wall by chance?

 

 

That's what I figured...

[TBBills]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

That's what I figured...

Also what I figured...

 

Lol concussion expert but they don't need rest.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, TBBills said:

Also what I figured...

 

Lol concussion expert but they don't need rest.

 

Concussions are rested, per protocol, until they are cleared to play--we all know that.

 

You're saying that the Bills medical staff should not have cleared him?

 

Or that they cleared him but recommended "more rest", and McD decided to hide that fact from us all?

 

Or that McD over-ruled the team physicians and held him out because he personally thought it would be best for Morse medically?

 

So exactly what are you saying with regard to McD's "football decision" not to play Morse.

 

Simple question.

 

 

[Saint Doug]

This thread is entertaining. Multiple Bills coaches believe that the team is better with Morse sitting. It doesn’t matter what some our preconceived notions are, how much the team is paying him, or how much we think we know about NFL OL play. The people who actually matter and likely know a lot more than we do have made a decision. Is there any reason why we should assume they are wrong?

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Concussions are rested, per protocol, until they are cleared to play--we all know that.

 

You're saying that the Bills medical staff should not have cleared him?

 

Or that they cleared him but recommended "more rest", and McD decided to hide that fact from us all?

 

Or that McD over-ruled the team physicians and held him out because he personally thought it would be best for Morse medically?

 

So exactly what are you saying with regard to McD's "football decision" not to play Morse.

 

Simple question.

 

 

Has nothing to do with Morse not being better than anyone I can tell you that much. He said he wanted to ride the "Momentum", since it is broken Morse should start on Sunday

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Has nothing to do with Morse not being better than anyone I can tell you that much. He said he wanted to ride the "Momentum", since it is broken Morse should start on Sunday

 

 

He felt that the "momentum" would be negatively affected by Morse's inclusion on the field.

 

 

Other than for that, Morse is the best man on the roster for the Center job.

 

Well argued!

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He felt that the "momentum" would be negatively affected by Morse's inclusion on the field.

 

 

Other than for that, Morse is the best man on the roster for the Center job.

 

Well argued!

Not my argument it exactly what was said... You don't like it take it up with McDermott.

[John from Riverside]

So to the financial folks......does getting out from under Morse contract allow us to resign Mongo and Williams?

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What I believe he was saying is that the OL did well against the Seahawks and since Morse is coming off a concussion, his 6th and 2nd in a year-and-a-half, why not give Feliciano another game to see what he could do? 

 

I don't think he did anything to lay claim to being a better C than Morse and again as I said, Feliciano is more valuable at OG.

 

https://espnrochester.radio.com/articles/wgr-am-article/mcdermott-morse-not-playing-was-a-coachs-decision    "He was healthy," McDermott told reporters on his weekly Zoom conference call. "Mitch is a good player and we just felt like, for that week, that week being last week, we felt like we had at least some momentum with the group we had had in when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at one more week there."

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but this is what McD said.  

 

44 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Has nothing to do with Morse not being better than anyone I can tell you that much. He said he wanted to ride the "Momentum", since it is broken Morse should start on Sunday

 

Just because we lost doesn't mean O-line momentum was broken.  You're talking assignment adjustments, getting off the ball and being effective as a unit.  They saw things on film they liked and kept with it against the Cards.  To me, the fact McD is noncommittal about Morse starting this weekend tells me he probably won't.  I'm sure they put a lot of work in to try and fix their run game and I just think McD would tag Morse as starter again if it had worked out.  I don't think he would be coy about who's starting at center, because at worst there seemed no noticeable dropoff with Mongo in there.

Edited November 24, 2020 by GaryPinC

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Pasaluki said:

Either McDermott doesn't believe Morse is a good player anymore or he is too afraid to play him because of his injury history. 

Neither are ideal especially as the Bills Oline is far from dominant with or without Morse.

 

You never want to hear that the Center you paid so much money to has been medically cleared to play but yet is "in the mix"

 

How about Option C, maybe McDermott and Daboll believe that Morse is a good player and are not worried about his injury history. 

 

Maybe they believe what they said - they wanted to get another look at the OL that had played together decently for 2 weeks, to see if a third week of continuity would be helpful.

 

Maybe something changed with Morse's play that made Mongo a better choice last week, but Morse has the ability and competitiveness to fix it.  So they're going to evaluate and see if he has done so?

 

Or maybe some of both

 

McDermott has always preached "everything is earned, nothing is given". 

 

[artmalibu]

Sunday the story will become clear...

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, TBBills said:

No need to risk against a NFC game... But I guess we will find out soon enough. We won't know if he starts him till Sunday.

 

From what McDermott said it was a momentum thing... So it looks since the momentum was broken we should have Mitch back in. 

 

44 minutes ago, TBBills said:

Not my argument it exactly what was said... You don't like it take it up with McDermott.

 

 

We are agreeing that he didn't want Morse to play that game because he felt it would negatively impact the team's performance.  And he still hasn't stated that Morse has his starting job back yet.  The best endorsement he could give of his $45 million man is "we'll see"----this was yesterday.

 

That precludes him from currently being the best guy for the job on the roster.  

[TBBills]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

We are agreeing that he didn't want Morse to play that game because he felt it would negatively impact the team's performance.  And he still hasn't stated that Morse has his starting job back yet.  The best endorsement he could give of his $45 million man is "we'll see"----this was yesterday.

 

That precludes him from currently being the best guy for the job on the roster.  

Well he will never say if Morse is starting that has always been McDermott's MO when talking to media. He never gives away who is starting.

 

So you are wrong.

Edited November 24, 2020 by TBBills

[Doc]

23 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

https://espnrochester.radio.com/articles/wgr-am-article/mcdermott-morse-not-playing-was-a-coachs-decision    "He was healthy," McDermott told reporters on his weekly Zoom conference call. "Mitch is a good player and we just felt like, for that week, that week being last week, we felt like we had at least some momentum with the group we had had in when Mitch went down and wanted to take a look at one more week there."

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but this is what McD said. 

 

I literally said what you just quoted from McD.  They wanted to see if the OL that won the Seahawks game, a big game, could do the same against the Cardinals.  They couldn't.  Remember also that Morse was cleared to play on Wednesday of that week, meaning he had already missed a day of practice.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, TBBills said:

Well he will never say if Morse is starting that has always been McDermott's MO when talking to media. He never gives away who is starting.

 

So you are wrong.

 

 

Good point.  Benching Morse against AZ and not announcing if he will start this week was a 2 week long elaborate ruse to mess with the Charger's Defensive game plan....

 

LA will now spend hours of wasted time planning parallel but completely different defensive schemes based on various Bills who may be hiking the ball to Josh---it's genius!

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I literally said what you just quoted from McD.  They wanted to see if the OL that won the Seahawks game, a big game, could do the same against the Cardinals.  They couldn't.  Remember also that Morse was cleared to play on Wednesday of that week, meaning he had already missed a day of practice.

 

 

The O-line didn't lose that game against AZ......

 

They helped Josh get the Bills what should have been a comfortable 3rd Q lead and what appeared to be (and should have been) a later, come from. behind game winning drive.

 

I bet the Bills staff was not, on the following Monday, saying:  "yeah we gotta get Mitch back in there for the Chargers".   And as of yesterday, they were still not saying that.

[TBBills]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Good point.  Benching Morse against AZ and not announcing if he will start this week was a 2 week long elaborate ruse to mess with the Charger's Defensive game plan....

 

LA will now spend hours of wasted time planning parallel but completely different defensive schemes based on various Bills who may be hiking the ball to Josh---it's genius!

 

 

So that is what you think he did lol sad....

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

The O-line didn't lose that game against AZ......

 

They helped Josh get the Bills what should have been a comfortable 3rd Q lead and what appeared to be (and should have been) a later, come from. behind game winning drive.

 

I bet the Bills staff was not, on the following Monday, saying:  "yeah we gotta get Mitch back in there for the Chargers".   And as of yesterday, they were still not saying that.

 

They also didn't win it.  So there go the mo.

 

And like I said, the OL is far better with Morse and Feliciano starting, and Morse doesn't play OG.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

They also didn't win it.  So there go the mo.

 

 

The game was there for the winning with 34 seconds left.  They did their job--they scored to the the league with seconds left.   Then the D-choke unit took the field and game the win away.

 

You're not even making sense.

6 minutes ago, TBBills said:

So that is what you think he did lol sad....

 

Why does he "never give away who's starting"?

[TBBills]

4 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

The game was there for the winning with 34 seconds left.  They did their job--they scored to the the league with seconds left.   Then the D-choke unit took the field and game the win away.

 

You're not even making sense.

 

Why does he "never give away who's starting"?

Ask him, I am not MCDermott.

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, TBBills said:

Ask him, I am not MCDermott.

 

 

Wait for the paint dries before you venture out of this corner....

[TBBills]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Wait for the paint dries before you venture out of this corner....

What are you even talking about? You are just running in circles chasing your tail.

 

You getting and at me b.c of what McDermott said thinking it's some huge plan or something crazy.

 

He says the same thing every week when it comes to guys starting yet you want to look deep into this one time b.c you are trying so hard to be right.

What's funny is last time Morse had a concussion he was out for a while but this time b.c he didn't come back after 1 week it's b.c he isn't good according to you.

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

The game was there for the winning with 34 seconds left.  They did their job--they scored to the the league with seconds left.   Then the D-choke unit took the field and game the win away.

 

You're not even making sense.

 

I agree that the offense had them in the lead until that miraculous 1 in a hundred play.  But the team still lost.  Feliciano didn't prove to be a better center than Morse and Winters continues to be a liability.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this may be true and have for a while.... but I suspect Morse and Feliciano is still a better combo than Feliciano and Winters.

 

 

Yeah and IMO Feliciano is also a much better center than he is a guard.    

 

Additionally........with improving the run game a priority.......you have to wonder if Morse is going to be more tentative at the point of attack.  It's not like the play he got hurt on was an unexpected hit.........it's standard operating procedure for the Patriots LB's to try to blow up run plays that way if they anticipate a combo block coming.  

 

It isn't out of the question that Feliciano/Winters might be better than Morse/Feliciano.........and that's knowing that Winters is just not good.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Doc said:

 

I agree that the offense had them in the lead until that miraculous 1 in a hundred play.  But the team still lost.  Feliciano didn't prove to be a better center than Morse and Winters continues to be a liability.

 

That's some spin for an Offense that built a big lead, and when the D tossed away in less than 15 minutes, regained it at the end of the game.  They put up 30 points.

 

Had the Hail Murray failed, would you come to the same conclusion about the O-line?  Of course not.  

 

The O-line was not the liability.  It wasn't missing the Morse ingredient.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

That's some spin for an Offense that built a big lead, and when the D tossed away in less than 15 minutes, regained it at the end of the game.  They put up 30 points.

 

Had the Hail Murray failed, would you come to the same conclusion about the O-line?  Of course not.  

 

The O-line was not the liability.  It wasn't missing the Morse ingredient.

 

No spin.  There is no reason Morse shouldn't be back starting at C and Feliciano at RG, relegating Winters back to the bench. 

[GaryPinC]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I literally said what you just quoted from McD.  They wanted to see if the OL that won the Seahawks game, a big game, could do the same against the Cardinals.  They couldn't.  Remember also that Morse was cleared to play on Wednesday of that week, meaning he had already missed a day of practice.

Except you added the suggestion it was because Morse was coming off a concussion, the second in a year and a half.  Simply put, that did not appear to be part of this decision.

[Doc]

Just now, GaryPinC said:

Except you added the suggestion it was because Morse was coming off a concussion, the second in a year and a half.  Simply put, that did not appear to be part of this decision.

 

And you added the suggestion that he was benched for poor play.  Except he was coming off a concussion, the 2nd in a year and a half, and he missed a day of practice.  If he hadn't been coming off a concussion and Feliciano started over him at C, it would be an entirely different discussion.

 

I guess we'll find out Sunday.

[Mr. WEO]

10 minutes ago, TBBills said:

What are you even talking about? You are just running in circles chasing your tail.

 

You getting and at me b.c of what McDermott said thinking it's some huge plan or something crazy.

 

He says the same thing every week when it comes to guys starting yet you want to look deep into this one time b.c you are trying so hard to be right.

What's funny is last time Morse had a concussion he was out for a while but this time b.c he didn't come back after 1 week it's b.c he isn't good according to you McDermott.

 

 

Fixed that for you.

 

The "huge plan" I described was sarcasm as a way to mock your claim that McD never tells who's starting ---even at C, as it somehow gives him an advantage in this case.

 

 

He did come back quickly   (in not quite a week, but only 10 days). He was dressed for the AZ game.  

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No spin.  There is no reason Morse shouldn't be back starting at C and Feliciano at RG, relegating Winters back to the bench. 

 

 

You would think.  But at no time did McD put Morse in the AZ game, while the Cardinals were pantsing the D.  

 

Momentum?  The Bills scored 74 points in the 2 games without Morse.  In the previous 3 games, they couldn't crack 20.  Hard for McD not to notice that....

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

You would think.  But at no time did McD put Morse in the AZ game, while the Cardinals were pantsing the D.  

 

Momentum?  The Bills scored 74 points in the 2 games without Morse.  In the previous 3 games, they couldn't crack 20.  Hard for McD not to notice that....

 

They were averaging almost 31 PPG with Morse and a healthy Josh.  Again Feliciano didn't prove to be a better center and he's a far better RG than Winters.  The decision will be easy...