PFF mid season all pro team

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

 

And you just basically added what was already implied.

 

 

No it's not implied......."will" is the future......."still" is the present and beyond........presently Diggs has never made a Pro Bowl in any capacity.

 

Hopefully that's the case this year but also hopefully he will be too busy preparing for or recuperating from a Super Bowl win to participate instead. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

No it's not implied......."will" is the future......."still" is the present and beyond........presently Diggs has never made a Pro Bowl in any capacity.

 

Hopefully that's the case this year but also hopefully he will be too busy preparing for or recuperating from a Super Bowl win to participate instead. 

“Still”...to come. He’s obviously on pace to make the pro bowl this year.

 

But yes I agree that we hope he has to opt out from it.  Tighten up the defense...

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Ray Ray sighting 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah he should be a top 15 guy for the next 3 seasons either way.........which isn't any terrible knock.........there is a lot of talent out there at WR..........but fans need to accept that the accolades are going to go to the guys who put up big numbers but also catch the pretty long balls and make the great RAC plays all season.       

 

Meh. Maybe. It hasn't stopped Michael Thomas earning plenty of accolades and nor should it have. You love the long ball Badol, I know you have said that before, but just like everything else in the NFL there is no single way to win. There are lots of ways. You can be a great wide receiver catching deep balls you can be a great wide receiver catching lots and lots of intermediate balls. There is no single route to being a top 5 receiver.

[atlbillsfan1975]

There once was this thing called credibility. We can discuss why this principle has ceased to exist for the most part in media, however we can’t debate why PFF is not a credible site. I don’t click that link and I never will click any PFF link. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[GreggTX]

YAY !!!! Resign him quickly and save $$$!!!

Then draft a G on day 2 or sign an upgrade and trade Ford while you still can.

 

RT DARYL WILLIAMS, BUFFALO BILLS

Second Team: Ryan Ramczyk, New Orleans Saints

The gap between the best left tackles and the best right tackles in the league in 2020 has been huge. You could name seven or eight left tackles who have outperformed the best on the right side, particularly with Mitchell Schwartz missing time, but Buffalo’s Daryl Williams is back to near his best play this season.

Williams has a PFF grade of at least 77.0 as both a pass blocker and a run blocker, and that elevates him over the other right tackles who are clustered around with similar overall grades.

Edited November 13, 2020 by GreggTX

[BADOLBILZ]

13 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Meh. Maybe. It hasn't stopped Michael Thomas earning plenty of accolades and nor should it have. You love the long ball Badol, I know you have said that before, but just like everything else in the NFL there is no single way to win. There are lots of ways. You can be a great wide receiver catching deep balls you can be a great wide receiver catching lots and lots of intermediate balls. There is no single route to being a top 5 receiver.

 

 

Yes.......I am all about the big play aspect and of course I have "scoreboard" this year with the Chiefs being the SB champs and the favorite to repeat.

 

If Diggs becomes an 80%+ catch rate receiver like Thomas the past two years........ then you might have a point.    Personally I think Thomas is overrated.......Brees is fine without him, which says it all, IMO.......but his production is just so great it can't be ignored.   And right now he and Diggs aren't the same type of receiver.   Chain movers who drop the ball aren't going to catch 149 passes and force the accolades the way Thomas has.  

 

Which leads to why I question whether Diggs can be in the top 5 over an extended period of time........he's a tweener...........can make some big plays but isn't a lid lifter or TD machine.........he is great at getting open on short to intermediate routes but still catches just 68% of his targets.  

 

[BillsFan619]

On 11/11/2020 at 6:54 AM, Ya Digg? said:

So the league leader in receptions and yards isn’t even on the 2nd team? Seems rather ridiculous to me

You literally took the words right out of my mouth.

Edited November 14, 2020 by BillsFan619

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yes.......I am all about the big play aspect and of course I have "scoreboard" this year with the Chiefs being the SB champs and the favorite to repeat.

 

If Diggs becomes an 80%+ catch rate receiver like Thomas the past two years........ then you might have a point.    Personally I think Thomas is overrated.......Brees is fine without him, which says it all, IMO.......but his production is just so great it can't be ignored.   And right now he and Diggs aren't the same type of receiver.   Chain movers who drop the ball aren't going to catch 149 passes and force the accolades the way Thomas has.  

 

Which leads to why I question whether Diggs can be in the top 5 over an extended period of time........he's a tweener...........can make some big plays but isn't a lid lifter or TD machine.........he is great at getting open on short to intermediate routes but still catches just 68% of his targets.  

 

 

The Chiefs have actually been much less of a big play, video game type team this year. That is partly how teams have defended them of course and I don't doubt that big plays matter. They just aren't the only way to win.

 

Disagree totally on Thomas. He was the best receiver in football last year. 

 

I disagree on Diggs also. I think he can be a top 5 or 6 receiver in the NFL. Pure natural talent I think he is capable of that. It is about consistency with Diggs. I don't expect him to remain quite on the pace he has set through his first 9 games as a Bill but he has to stay close to it over the next 2-3 years. I am more optimistic that he can than you are.

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Chiefs have actually been much less of a big play, video game type team this year. That is partly how teams have defended them of course and I don't doubt that big plays matter. They just aren't the only way to win.

 

Disagree totally on Thomas. He was the best receiver in football last year. 

 

I disagree on Diggs also. I think he can be a top 5 or 6 receiver in the NFL. Pure natural talent I think he is capable of that. It is about consistency with Diggs. I don't expect him to remain quite on the pace he has set through his first 9 games as a Bill but he has to stay close to it over the next 2-3 years. I am more optimistic that he can than you are.

 

1)  Actually.......it might surprise you to hear that the Chiefs are averaging more yards per play this year than last year.   

 

2)  Thomas is great at what he does and he's in the best position to maximize those super-possession-receiver numbers..........but in the same way that Chris Carter had a lot more catches than Randy Moss........history will remember Julio Jones as the greater player of the period..........we remember the big play guys.    Julio, btw, is quietly having one of his best seasons ever with a career high and very Thomas-like 77% catch rate to go along with the typically big y/r.    

 

Justin Jefferson is also catching 77% of his targets and his 18.4 y/r is second best in the NFL.

 

That's why he is getting the love.

 

Nearly 50% more production per reception and a higher catch rate is why it's not unfair at all to rank him ahead of Diggs to this point.

 

You defending your take that Justin Jefferson is just going to be a "slot guy" while arguing my statistically on the nose takes on Diggs is foul play.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

1)  Actually.......it might surprise you to hear that the Chiefs are averaging more yards per play this year than last year.   

 

2)  Thomas is great at what he does and he's in the best position to maximize those super-possession-receiver numbers..........but in the same way that Chris Carter had a lot more catches than Randy Moss........history will remember Julio Jones as the greater player of the period..........we remember the big play guys.    Julio, btw, is quietly having one of his best seasons ever with a career high and very Thomas-like 77% catch rate to go along with the typically big y/r.    

 

Justin Jefferson is also catching 77% of his targets and his 18.4 y/r is second best in the NFL.

 

That's why he is getting the love.

 

Nearly 50% more production per reception and a higher catch rate is why it's not unfair at all to rank him ahead of Diggs to this point.

 

You defending your take that Justin Jefferson is just going to be a "slot guy" while arguing my statistically on the nose takes on Diggs is foul play.

 

 

 

No it really isn't. I have already said Jefferson has been better outside than I expected though a lot of his best plays have come from the slot. Nor have I argued your take on Diggs historically. I just don't think it projects to what you think it does going forward. 

 

And on Michael Thomas you are just plain wrong. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No it really isn't. I have already said Jefferson has been better outside than I expected though a lot of his best plays have come from the slot. Nor have I argued your take on Diggs historically. I just don't think it projects to what you think it does going forward. 

 

And on Michael Thomas you are just plain wrong. 

 

Jefferson is another case of the perils of you trying to be so on the nose with every prospect..........you called that very wrong.   Same with Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen.   This isn't ESPN where takes are lost in the noise,  when we take strong positions on players in this small community we have to take the "L's" here........."better than I expected" is a very dismissive way to admit these things........but what makes it humorous is the depth of your prior assessments.

 

Now are you saying I'm wrong that Julio Jones will be remembered as the greater player than Michael Thomas?

 

 Really?

 

 How long do you expect Drew Brees to play?

 

When the greatest WR's are mentioned it's all big play guys...........Rice, Moss, TO, Megatron.........not the Steve Largent's and Chris Carters', regardless of their gaudy catch numbers.

 

As for Diggs.........he isn't what he isn't until he isn't.............I literally gave you a mountain of statistical support for my opinion.........you just don't think I am right.........but you have nothing to tangibly support your position?   Disappointing.    I would love for Diggs to turn into a regular 14+ y/r guy at his 68% catch rate and would be fine with him being a high 70% catch rate 11-12 y/r guy............he just isn't even that guy now, 6 seasons into his career, in his prime.........and them's the bars for top of the league WR conversation.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Jefferson is another case of the perils of you trying to be so on the nose with every prospect..........you called that very wrong.   Same with Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen.   This isn't ESPN where takes are lost in the noise,  when we take strong positions on players in this small community we have to take the "L's" here........."better than I expected" is a very dismissive way to admit these things........but what makes it humorous is the depth of your prior assessments.

 

Now are you saying I'm wrong that Julio Jones will be remembered as the greater player than Michael Thomas?

 

 Really?

 

 How long do you expect Drew Brees to play?

 

When the greatest WR's are mentioned it's all big play guys...........Rice, Moss, TO, Megatron.........not the Steve Largent's and Chris Carters', regardless of their gaudy catch numbers.

 

As for Diggs.........he isn't what he isn't until he isn't.............I literally gave you a mountain of statistical support for my opinion.........you just don't think I am right.........but you have nothing to tangibly support your position?   Disappointing.    I would love for Diggs to turn into a regular 14+ y/r guy at his 68% catch rate and would be fine with him being a high 70% catch rate 11-12 y/r guy............he just isn't even that guy now, 6 seasons into his career, in his prime.........and them's the bars for top of the league WR conversation.

 

Come on Badol you have built about 4 strawmen there. 

 

On Jefferson... I am more than happy to take the L. I haven't seen enough yet to get me there but nobody can accuse me of holding onto bad draft takes. I admit them freely.

 

I never said that on Thomas being remembered as better than Julio. But you are wrong to say he is overrated. He is absolutely in the elite group of receivers in this league. 

 

And I have never argued with you about what Diggs IS. What I have said is I have a different view of what he still can be. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Come on Badol you have built about 4 strawmen there. 

 

On Jefferson... I am more than happy to take the L. I haven't seen enough yet to get me there but nobody can accuse me of holding onto bad draft takes. I admit them freely.

 

I never said that on Thomas being remembered as better than Julio. But you are wrong to say he is overrated. He is absolutely in the elite group of receivers in this league. 

 

And I have never argued with you about what Diggs IS. What I have said is I have a different view of what he still can be. 

 

 

You just said I was wrong about my take on Thomas.......which included my perspective on where he stands relative to a guy like Julio.........you should have qualified it.

 

But you can be an elite WR AND also overrated relative to your peers.

 

 Thomas plays with the most accurate passer in league history.......in a great offensive system..........saying he is not overrated is the same as saying that he could catch 149 passes elsewhere.........which he could not.  

 

He's outstanding.........but IMO, he would be Mahomes 2nd (or 3rd) read.    

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

1)  Actually.......it might surprise you to hear that the Chiefs are averaging more yards per play this year than last year.   

 

2)  Thomas is great at what he does and he's in the best position to maximize those super-possession-receiver numbers..........but in the same way that Chris Carter had a lot more catches than Randy Moss........history will remember Julio Jones as the greater player of the period..........we remember the big play guys.    Julio, btw, is quietly having one of his best seasons ever with a career high and very Thomas-like 77% catch rate to go along with the typically big y/r.    

 

Justin Jefferson is also catching 77% of his targets and his 18.4 y/r is second best in the NFL.

 

That's why he is getting the love.

 

Nearly 50% more production per reception and a higher catch rate is why it's not unfair at all to rank him ahead of Diggs to this point.

 

You defending your take that Justin Jefferson is just going to be a "slot guy" while arguing my statistically on the nose takes on Diggs is foul play.

 

Jefferson is 38th in receptions and 15th in yards, thanks to 2 monster games (which account for over half his yards this season) and 1 good game, all indoors...and 4 pretty poor ones.  So what that he's averaging 18.4 YPC?  That doesn't mean he's better than Hopkins, Jones, Adams or any of the 7 other WRs with more receptions and yards.  Hell Robert Foster averaged over 20 YPC...

 

 

[GunnerBill]

17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You just said I was wrong about my take on Thomas.......which included my perspective on where he stands relative to a guy like Julio.........you should have qualified it.

 

But you can be an elite WR AND also overrated relative to your peers.

 

 Thomas plays with the most accurate passer in league history.......in a great offensive system..........saying he is not overrated is the same as saying that he could catch 149 passes elsewhere.........which he could not.  

 

He's outstanding.........but IMO, he would be Mahomes 2nd (or 3rd) read.    

 

So Tyreek Hill is in that elite group too. Thomas was the best receiver in the league last year. I have a hard time calling that overrated. He isn't your type of player, I know that... but he is still great. He'd catch over 100 balls in Kansas City's offense too.

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Jefferson is 38th in receptions and 15th in yards, thanks to 2 monster games (which account for over half his yards this season) and 1 good game, all indoors...and 4 pretty poor ones.  So what that he's averaging 18.4 YPC?  That doesn't mean he's better than Hopkins, Jones, Adams or any of the 7 other WRs with more receptions and yards.  Hell Robert Foster averaged over 20 YPC...

 

 

 

 

You guys are really fixated on yardage and catch totals when some guys have played 9 games like Diggs and others have played 8 or even 7.

 

Don't worry........the Bills bye week is coming.

 

With opportunities not being even at this point of the season.........per play production and % of targets caught and even per game production are better indicators.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Tyreek Hill is in that elite group too. Thomas was the best receiver in the league last year. I have a hard time calling that overrated. He isn't your type of player, I know that... but he is still great. He'd catch over 100 balls in Kansas City's offense too.

 

He had the best statistical year last year.......yes, breaking the catch record earns him that nod..........but was he the most coveted WR in the NFL?........I don't think that's the case.

 

Chris Carter had better years than Randy Moss too..........when he was leading the league in receptions and TD's people like you argued that he was the best......but even though Carter finished with a lot more grabs he will be a relative footnote in the greatest WR discussion while Moss is a fixture.  

 

Did I mention that Stefon Diggs 100 reception season was the lowest y/r of any 100 catch WR season in NFL history?   What you gotta' say about that?  Nada?   That's what I thought.   Or was it just "lower than you expected"?

 

 

[Doc]

20 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You guys are really fixated on yardage and catch totals when some guys have played 9 games like Diggs and others have played 8 or even 7.

 

Don't worry........the Bills bye week is coming.

 

With opportunities not being even at this point of the season.........per play production and % of targets caught and even per game production are better indicators.

 

Good point.  He'll only be 2nd in the NFL in receptions and 3rd in yards after the bye. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Doc

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

He had the best statistical year last year.......yes, breaking the catch record earns him that nod..........but was he the most coveted WR in the NFL?........I don't think that's the case.

 

Chris Carter had better years than Randy Moss too..........when he was leading the league in receptions and TD's people like you argued that he was the best......but even though Carter finished with a lot more grabs he will be a relative footnote in the greatest WR discussion while Moss is a fixture.  

 

Did I mention that Stefon Diggs 100 reception season was the lowest y/r of any 100 catch WR season in NFL history?   What you gotta' say about that?  Nada?   That's what I thought.   Or was it just "lower than you expected"?

 

 

 

What do you want me to say about the Diggs season? I have agreed that he was too inconsistent in Minnesota and has to be better than that. Again you are trying to argue points I haven't made. 

 

As for Thomas was he the most coveted...... I reckon he'd have been in the top 3 in that conversation. 

[The Frankish Reich]

On 11/11/2020 at 7:39 AM, ILBillsfan said:

I know I know it't PFF but a there is a Buffalo Bill on this list and it's probably a person that has been overlooked this year.  Nope not Allen, Diggs or Poyer its Daryl Williams.  Great off season signing by the Bills has really been playing outstanding this year.  I really think Diggs has been overlooked some and should of been named to at least the second team as well but there are a lot of great receivers just odd to see the rookie Jefferson(who the vikings drafted to replace Diggs) on the second team.

 

Still a good read and I do put much more weight on their line grades than some of the others. 

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-2020-midseason-all-pro-team

 

Love it! As poor as the interior lineman have been (perhaps Morse excepted), that's how good Dawkins and Williams have been. 

[Albany,n.y.]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:52 AM, chknwing334 said:

Diggs isn't even a runner up on this list?

No, those Bills haters chose the guy who Minnesota took with the Bills 1st round pick instead, even though Diggs is much better.  I guess they still haven't gotten over Josh Allen & the Bills management proving them wrong. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Albany,n.y.

[BADOLBILZ]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Good point.  He'll be 2nd in the NFL in receptions and 3rd in yards after the bye. 

 

I hope he's still #1...........but it's hard to lead the league in yardage at 12 a pop............instead of kick stepping like James Lofton in the middle of the field.........he needs to get over the top and high step like him into the end zone a bit more and that would really help his chances of staying on top.

 

As for grabs......Diggs is on pace for 112 receptions.......that figure probably won't lead the league......and would be 37 off of Michael Thomas total last year.

 

But Diggs is also on pace for about 15 drops...........so in terms of getting open he is having an even better year than that 112 projection would indicate.

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

No, those Bills haters chose the guy who Minnesota took with the Bills 1st round pick instead, even though Diggs is much better.  I guess they still haven't gotten over Josh allen & the Bills management proving them wrong. 

 

Whatever. Opinions.  But there are other WRs besides Diggs they could have easily chosen over him.

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

What do you want me to say about the Diggs season? I have agreed that he was too inconsistent in Minnesota and has to be better than that. Again you are trying to argue points I haven't made. 

 

As for Thomas was he the most coveted...... I reckon he'd have been in the top 3 in that conversation. 

 

 

I think that you think that you don't need to support any of your points to produce a strong argument.......................but could you humor us with your top 5 most coveted WR's if you were a GM in week 9 of the 2019 season?   

 

You don't need to weigh in contract or off field issues.........just the guys that most GM's would prefer to have for that season, everything else aside.   That strips bare the "best receiver" IMO.  

 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

24 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I hope he's still #1...........but it's hard to lead the league in yardage at 12 a pop............instead of kick stepping like James Lofton in the middle of the field.........he needs to get over the top and high step like him into the end zone a bit more and that would really help his chances of staying on top.

 

As for grabs......Diggs is on pace for 112 receptions.......that figure probably won't lead the league......and would be 37 off of Michael Thomas total last year.

 

But Diggs is also on pace for about 15 drops...........so in terms of getting open he is having an even better year than that 112 projection would indicate.

FWIW I am a fan of the kick steps.  Not gonna die on this hill but based solely on my limited personal experience (i.e. getting smoked by more athletic dudes doing that to me on the tag rugby pitch) it’s a sign of a highly creative athlete.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 minute ago, Coach Tuesday said:

FWIW I am a fan of the kick steps.  Not gonna die on this hill but based solely on my limited personal experience (i.e. getting smoked by more athletic dudes doing that to me on the tag rugby pitch) it’s a sign of a highly creative athlete.

 

 

We are still tailgating and watching the games together and the place exploded last week when he did that.   

 

Love it.

 

Hoping that we see more of it tomorrow against a banged up Cardinals defense that has to turn around and play their toughest division game of the year at Seattle on Thursday.

 

Hoping for 500 yards passing.......5-6 passing TD's..........8 pounds of chicken wings......bad weather games are coming so we won't get a chance to see this every week but another chance to see some kick stepping tomorrow!

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think that you think that you don't need to support any of your points to produce a strong argument.......................but could you humor us with your top 5 most coveted WR's if you were a GM in week 9 of the 2019 season?   

 

You don't need to weigh in contract or off field issues.........just the guys that most GM's would prefer to have for that season, everything else aside.   That strips bare the "best receiver" IMO.  

 

 

 

I think that does bring in contract and age though if you are asking who a GM covets. But I'd go something like Hill, Thomas, Jones, Metcalf, Hopkins. Something like that? I'd have AJ Brown not far behind and Devonte Adams and still Mike Evans to be honest. You know if Brady threw to him instead of throwing to his two BFFs instead. 

 

It is hard to say don't take age into account IMO. Cos I probably wouldn't trade much for Julio at this point, as great a player as he has been and still is. 

[BADOLBILZ]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that does bring in contract and age though if you are asking who a GM covets. But I'd go something like Hill, Thomas, Jones, Metcalf, Hopkins. Something like that? I'd have AJ Brown not far behind and Devonte Adams and still Mike Evans to be honest. You know if Brady threw to him instead of throwing to his two BFFs instead. 

 

It is hard to say don't take age into account IMO. Cos I probably wouldn't trade much for Julio at this point, as great a player as he has been and still is. 

 

 

If the measure is "who is the best receiver in the league in this given year" then age and contract status don't matter.

 

I'd say the majority of franchises would have taken Hopkins, Hill and Jones to finish their 2019 season because they are system versatile.

 

Big plays play big in every system.

 

Everything they do carries over.

 

Thomas......and Adams as well......are to a greater degree the products of their system and highly accurate HOF QB's.