Ford and Williams playing well as a duo at RG and RT, per Joe Buscaglia

[TigerJ]

7 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

 

I think they’re going to keep 9.  Feliciano has to make the final 53 to get on IR-eligible to return, right?  If that’s the case, and if they think Feliciano can make it back this year, then we might see 10 (incl. Feliciano) stay on cutdown day, with Feliciano to IR the next day.  I kind of wonder if Bates, Winters, and Boehm/Boettger will round out that group of 9.  We could always release a veteran likely to return and go light in a given position group for a day (e.g., T.J. Yeldon, or Croom if they IR/stash Sweeney and go 3 TE to start the year).  

 

As an aside, why Yeldon is a lock to make this team is beyond me.  I guess it’s only because the Bills like to have a vet in each position group.  

 I agree with you in theory.  The idea is that a healthy team with a deeper roster would have an advantage over a banged-up team in your scenario. 

Personally, in view of the fact there is so much depth on the interior of the Oline, I think Feliciano is going to start the year on IR.  He can be recalled after 8 games if necessary.  I'm not in charge though, so it's merely a guess.  I know Feliciano has dreams of coming back by about week 4 but that's just not common sense to me.

[Doc]

25 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

Personally, in view of the fact there is so much depth on the interior of the Oline, I think Feliciano is going to start the year on IR.  He can be recalled after 8 games if necessary.  I'm not in charge though, so it's merely a guess.  I know Feliciano has dreams of coming back by about week 4 but that's just not common sense to me.

 

C3 is correct in that Feliciano has to be on the opening day roster to be be put on IR-return.  I don't know if I can see them cut a player they want to keep just so they can do this, so I think they either put him on IR or waive him with an injury settlement and tell him to keep in touch to be added later in the season.

[heavydutyrudy]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:37 PM, BeerLeagueHockey said:

Excellent news.

 

So barring injury, Ford is locked in at right guard?  Or are they rotating positions still?

 

They are still rotating positions.  McDermott said he would like to get the positions settled within the next 5 days.  So pay attention, there is going to be a quiz on this later.

[heavydutyrudy]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:43 PM, TroutDog said:

Glad to hear Ford is being switched to guard...seems like a more natural position for him. Anything to make this line a more solid group!

Well Bills fans better hope Ford is better at guard.   One thing we know for sure is he's NOT a tackle!  He stinks at tackle. Speed rushers go right around him before he can even get out of his stance.  He's slower than my old lady.  At tackle Ford is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  Let's be honest, the Beaner drafted a BUST in the 2nd round. 

[heavydutyrudy]

On 8/23/2020 at 7:25 PM, Limeaid said:

 

Williams is on a one year contract. This would give Ford more time to develop while seeing from guard position how another player players OT position.  He got some of that year watching Nsekhe.

Ford could watch for 20 years and he still wouldn't be able to play tackle.  The guy doesn't have the physical tools to play tackle.  You can learn all you want it won't change your physical limitations.  If it just a matter of watching and learning I would be playing for the Bills.  You have to have God given talent that can't be learned.

[heavydutyrudy]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:03 PM, Buffalo716 said:

Despite what a lot of people think, Ford actually had some good games last year at right tackle. He wasn't complete trash

 

And I didn't realize Williams was only 27. That's actually young

Hmmm,, you said Ford wasn't complete trash last year, well he sure smelled like it.   He was like sieve.

[TigerJ]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

C3 is correct in that Feliciano has to be on the opening day roster to be be put on IR-return.  I don't know if I can see them cut a player they want to keep just so they can do this, so I think they either put him on IR or waive him with an injury settlement and tell him to keep in touch to be added later in the season.

Yeah, you got me there.  A technicality.

[heavydutyrudy]

8 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

And that woul d be a real find for Beane.  Our RT's over the years have been less then stellar.  

Not only their right tackles, ALL of their offensive linemen over the years have stunk up the stadium.

[Richard Noggin]

24 minutes ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Ford could watch for 20 years and he still wouldn't be able to play tackle.  The guy doesn't have the physical tools to play tackle.  You can learn all you want it won't change your physical limitations.  If it just a matter of watching and learning I would be playing for the Bills.  You have to have God given talent that can't be learned.

 

11 minutes ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Hmmm,, you said Ford wasn't complete trash last year, well he sure smelled like it.   He was like sieve.

 

3 minutes ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Not only their right tackles, ALL of their offensive linemen over the years have stunk up the stadium.

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

10 minutes ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Not only their right tackles, ALL of their offensive linemen over the years have stunk up the stadium.

Dude, you need to sit your candy ass down. 

[Punching Bag]

33 minutes ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Ford could watch for 20 years and he still wouldn't be able to play tackle.  The guy doesn't have the physical tools to play tackle.  You can learn all you want it won't change your physical limitations.  If it just a matter of watching and learning I would be playing for the Bills.  You have to have God given talent that can't be learned.

 

I guess I trust Bills opinion more than yours.  The Bills put him in as tackle and they obviously have more film than you.

Sometimes Bills get offense players wrong but usually it is because Coach McD depended on wrong people on his coaching staff and when this happens the coach is usually gone next year (i.e. Phil McGeoghan).

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

Dude, you need to sit your candy ass down. 

My guess is he's a troll from New Jersey.

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

His guard play was not amazing at Oklahoma. It was good. He was about a 5th 6th round pick imo when he changed to right tackle and his play picked up tremendously

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/cody-ford

 

Reading this, some slightly different opinions from scouts. And his footwork is inconsistent, but everybody says he has very quick feet, is a tremendous athlete, and should be slotted at tackle first because his size and athleticism

 

All three of those scouts say guard should be a fall back, and I saw the same thing when I was scouting him. He just has so much talent that you need to try him at tackle, until it fails

 

I thought guard should be a fallback too. I know you disagree with this but when I scouted Dawkins at Temple even though he played tackle and played it well I thought everything about his technique screamed dominant NFL guard and I had him graded as a Guard but with Tackle flex. I am not surprised by how he has played at tackle but I think he is pretty close to his ceiling there whereas I still think he would be a dominant NFL guard. We are likely not going to find out now, though I still think towards the end of that new deal if the Bills get a shot at a top end LT prospect they might take it and slide Dawkins inside when he hits his 30s. 

 

I only bring up Dawkins because conversely with Cody Ford I had him graded as a Tackle with Guard flex. I was higher on his guard play at Oklahoma than you (I thought that was solid day 2 tape) but I agree that his best season was as a senior at right tackle and that it was that tape that pushed him into day 1 consideration (I had a 1st / 2nd borderline grade on him by the end of the process). 

 

I see the development argument for keeping Ford at tackle. If the Bills still believe there is a good chance of him being the long term answer at that spot they should leave him be, but I think that probably means accepting they are not fielding their optimum combination in 2020 because if Williams is even at 80% of his 2017 form (when he was a 2nd team all pro) he is the best right tackle on this roster. If they are 50/50 on where Ford best fits moving forward then they should slide him inside and play Williams at tackle. I think that is probably their best combo for 2020. Once you slide Cody inside though you probably have to stick to that. If you move him back outside in 2021 (Williams is a 1 year prove it deal) then you are really starting to mess with the kid's development. 

[ziltoid]

7 hours ago, heavydutyrudy said:

They are still rotating positions.  McDermott said he would like to get the positions settled within the next 5 days.  So pay attention, there is going to be a quiz on this later.

 

Football is difficult.  I need to listen to Sal more, he'll share his crib notes.

[Doc]

9 hours ago, heavydutyrudy said:

Well Bills fans better hope Ford is better at guard.   One thing we know for sure is he's NOT a tackle!  He stinks at tackle. Speed rushers go right around him before he can even get out of his stance.  He's slower than my old lady.  At tackle Ford is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  Let's be honest, the Beaner drafted a BUST in the 2nd round. 

 

Hawt taek.  If he proves to be a good RG, it wasn't a wasted pick.

 

9 hours ago, TigerJ said:

Yeah, you got me there.  A technicality.

 

Wasn't trying to get you and I forgot myself that a player has to be on the opening day roster to IR-R him and suggested the same thing.  Knowing now, I can't see them keeping him and risking losing someone else when it would be perfectly reasonable to regular IR him or waive-injured him.  They have depth now.

 

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I thought guard should be a fallback too. I know you disagree with this but when I scouted Dawkins at Temple even though he played tackle and played it well I thought everything about his technique screamed dominant NFL guard and I had him graded as a Guard but with Tackle flex. I am not surprised by how he has played at tackle but I think he is pretty close to his ceiling there whereas I still think he would be a dominant NFL guard. We are likely not going to find out now, though I still think towards the end of that new deal if the Bills get a shot at a top end LT prospect they might take it and slide Dawkins inside when he hits his 30s. 

 

I only bring up Dawkins because conversely with Cody Ford I had him graded as a Tackle with Guard flex. I was higher on his guard play at Oklahoma than you (I thought that was solid day 2 tape) but I agree that his best season was as a senior at right tackle and that it was that tape that pushed him into day 1 consideration (I had a 1st / 2nd borderline grade on him by the end of the process). 

 

I see the development argument for keeping Ford at tackle. If the Bills still believe there is a good chance of him being the long term answer at that spot they should leave him be, but I think that probably means accepting they are not fielding their optimum combination in 2020 because if Williams is even at 80% of his 2017 form (when he was a 2nd team all pro) he is the best right tackle on this roster. If they are 50/50 on where Ford best fits moving forward then they should slide him inside and play Williams at tackle. I think that is probably their best combo for 2020. Once you slide Cody inside though you probably have to stick to that. If you move him back outside in 2021 (Williams is a 1 year prove it deal) then you are really starting to mess with the kid's development. 

 

I don't see any reason why they can't start him at RG this year and still develop him at RT.  Learning from Williams would be good for him and it would put the best players in their best positions, at least for this year.

[freddyjj]

28 minutes ago, Doc said:

I don't see any reason why they can't start him at RG this year and still develop him at RT.  Learning from Williams would be good for him and it would put the best players in their best positions, at least for this year.

I agree.  For us old timers, Ruben Brown was an OT at Pitt and converted to LG for Bills as Rookie in 95 and played at a ProBowl level for years.  Also in 1986, Will Wolford played RG for his rookie season next to Joe Devlin before switching to LT.  

 

Ford played at Oklahoma where he seldom was in a 3 point stance.  And the Big 12 is not known for shut down defenses with complicated blitz or run blitz schemes.  There is much to learn to transition to OT in the NFL.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

I don't see any reason why they can't start him at RG this year and still develop him at RT.  Learning from Williams would be good for him and it would put the best players in their best positions, at least for this year.

 

It is hard to develop a guy coming out of a system like Oklahomas when you change his position every offseason. RT, then RG, then back to RT..... that is very likely to hurt his development long term. Doesn't mean it couldn't still work out, but it certainly makes it harder on the kid. Your best chance of setting him up for long term success is for them to either stick with him at tackle until (if they ever get there) they are convinced he can't make it at that spot or to take the decision now to move him and then really focus on developing him as a guard.

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

33 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is hard to develop a guy coming out of a system like Oklahomas when you change his position every offseason. RT, then RG, then back to RT..... that is very likely to hurt his development long term. Doesn't mean it couldn't still work out, but it certainly makes it harder on the kid. Your best chance of setting him up for long term success is for them to either stick with him at tackle until (if they ever get there) they are convinced he can't make it at that spot or to take the decision now to move him and then really focus on developing him as a guard.

 

I hard agree with this. I hate that they are playing him at Guard.  Unless they have made the decision that Tackle is never going to happen, which they may well have, he should be playing Tackle. Guard and Tackle are not the same position.  

[Buffalo Junction]

On 8/24/2020 at 12:47 AM, GunnerBill said:

While Joe is sticking to the protocol if not saying positions I am not at all surprised that Ford at guard and Williams at tackle looks good. That is the strongest right side combo we have in my opinion. 

With Mongo out it‘s likely the strongest combination regardless of which plays RT and RG. 

 

On 8/24/2020 at 8:24 AM, dneveu said:

Ususally a team carries 9 on the active 53 man roster, and 1 or 2 on PS.  To me it would sound most like

 

Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Ford - Williams

 

IOL Depth - Winters

C Depth - Boehm

T Depth - Nsekhe

Protected 9th lineman inactive on game days- Bates or Boettger

 

Depends on who goes down though.  If williams is injured for snaps, do you move winters into RG and Ford to RT?  Not sure.  Thats probably what a lot of these practices are for.

Probably easier to just put Nsekhe in at RT and maintain continuity at the other Oline positions. Nsekhe is one of the best swing tackles in the NFL. I expect them to take advantage of that if/when needed.

[GreggTX]

"Ecstatic" doesn't even come close. If Ford makes a big leap in year 2 and Williams returns to form, the OL could be a big asset rather than a liability. I know preseason accolades mean little, but this has given me hope.