Goodell Admits NFL Was Wrong Not to Listen

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I have felt this way for many years. Police brutality is not just a race issue. I recognize that black people get the worse end. But it affects everyone to some degree. I know too many people that have had bad run ins with cops where things escalated quickly for no good reason. The viral video from right here in Buffalo was a 75 year old white man. Tear gas is banned in warfare but it is used regularly by police officers in America to disperse peaceful protests.

 

So I think the people saying "white people get abused by the police too" are missing the mark. It should make you angry that anyone in America can suffer at the hands of a government employee and never get justice.

I think a lot of those people who say that ALSO hold the opinion that the "cops should be the only ones who own guns" narrative after every shooting is silly.

 

There's a lot of cognitive dissonance everywhere. 

[thebandit27]

I had two problems with Kaep’s kneeling from the beginning:

 

1) the original statement where he contended that unarmed black men are murdered by police daily; I understand it’s a very sensitive subject, and yes, it’s 100% true that even one is too many, but his narrative was false. It made his overall purpose of raising awareness of racial and cultural inequities diluted. That’s a shame because I think there would’ve been less backlash if his initial commentary had been more grounded or measured.  I’d like to think that I’d have been more receptive, As I admit that it made me listen less.
 

2) protesting is something to be done on one’s own time; not on the time of a person that is paying you millions of dollars to play a game.

 

All of that said: the players had every right to protest, so long as they were willing to accept that owners had every right to respond as they saw fit.

Edited June 6, 2020 by thebandit27

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, westside2 said:

It's not police killing blacks, it's blacks killing blacks that's the problem 

 

I typically just ignore obvious baiting comments like this but I will try to explain to you. There are already laws in place to charge and sentence murderers. If a black citizen kills another black citizen there will be a full criminal investigation and the offender will be punished if he is caught. There are already numerous organizations dedicated to stopping gang violence and helping young kids in extremely poor communities avoid that fate. Professional black athletes give a ton of money to these organizations. You are lying if you say they ignore that issue.

 

The point of this entire conversation is that there is not a similar system for stopping race motivated police brutality. In decades past, most incidents like George Floyd were swept under the rug. The officer would give his own version of events and that would be that. To use your own example this would be like if a murderer was arrested and said "I didn't do it" and they just let him go. The only reason things have changed recently is that everyone has a camera now. The brutality can no longer be ignored because it is caught on camera. And still it takes two days of protests and riots for George Floyd's murderer to be arrested and charged. It takes several more days for his cohorts to be arrested. Can you think of any other scenario where a murder is caught on camera and the offenders are not immediately taken into custody? And Floyd is just the most extreme example. There are countless lesser examples that add up to a system of oppression and abuse that has persisted for over a century.

 

In trying to illuminate what you believe to be the real problem, you have instead given a perfect example for why so many people are fighting for change. If you were trying to have an actual conversation with this comment, I look forward to your response. If you were just looking to score a cheap point in a serious conversation, you can move on. There are other forums out there that will accept the kind of "critical thinking" you have displayed here.

Edited June 6, 2020 by HappyDays

[K-9]

18 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Saying that the Commish's statement is too little too late (for a number of reasons) is true IMO but somewhat misses the mark. On the strong balance of probabilities the point is that it is devoid of content, in other words, is insincere. RG is nothing but the agent of the owners, who, like them or leave them, are not stupid people They know the way the wind is blowing at this moment. So they are not so much people of principle than weathervanes. They are businessmen whose interest is the value of the brand in which they are so heavily invested.

So, as far as I'm concerned, they are all "unforgiven". Fromm on the other hand was maybe just being a dumb punk kid. If his apology is sincere I would let him be. If it's good enuf for Leslie Frazier and his teammates it's good enuf for me. The quality of mercy is not strained.

Fair points all regarding the NFL.

 

Regarding Fromm, unless he can apologize and his teammates can forgive him in a manner that satisfies MY outrage, it can’t truly be considered genuine. Even though it’s none of my business.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

I had two problems with Kaep’s kneeling from the beginning:

 

1) the original statement where he contended that black men are murdered by police daily; I understand it’s a very sensitive subject, and yes, it’s 100% true that even one is too many, but his narrative was false. It made his overall purpose of raising awareness of racial and cultural inequities diluted. That’s a shame because I think there would’ve been less backlash if his initial commentary had been more grounded or measured. 
 

2) protesting is something to be done on one’s own time; not on the time of a person that is paying you millions of dollars to play a game.

 

All of that said: the players had every right to protest, so long as they were willing to accept that owners had every right to respond as they saw fit.

I used to feel more strongly about Kaep, but I have softened on him a bit. He went into political activism without fully understanding how opposition would hit him.

 

The police socks gaffe (and it was a gaffe) is the perfect example of this. His explanation WEEKS later did nothing to stem the tide of folks who would see that and be eternally set against him. He basically ensured his message would be lost from the jump.

[Westside]

41 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I lost my mom to brain cancer in 2015. I understand. I appreciate them raising awareness. I’ve never experienced racism but I appreciate them bringing awareness to that as well. These men have a voice and a platform. Our country/world has major problems. If we bury our head in the sand or avoid the issues we don’t do anything to move forward. 
 

I also don’t understand how someone else’s views on the world can hinder your game-watching experience? Someone explain that to me please. I just don’t get it. Whether I agree with someone or not it doesn’t influence my experience as a fan in any way. When it’s 3rd and 6 I’m not thinking about a guy’s tweet from 4 days earlier. 

Explain how it’s different. You said earlier that you wanted them to play and not bring their beliefs into it. I’d like to think that the same amount of people support cancer as racism, zero. When is it okay for someone to speak up? When you’re comfortable with their message? It’s an honest question. What is “divisive” about protesting racism? Who is it that is supporting a different part of that message? 

I'm all for protesting racism. Just not during sports. Racism has been around before we had this country. It didn't start with America. If we're going to have this discussion, let's be honest. Totally honest. Not this, if you don't agree with me, or if your white and haven't asked for forgiveness BS. 

Shout "all lives matter" during a protest or riot and see how peaceful people are.

[GoBills808]

Just now, FireChans said:

I used to feel more strongly about Kaep, but I have softened on him a bit. He went into political activism without fully understanding how opposition would hit him.

 

The police socks gaffe (and it was a gaffe) is the perfect example of this. His explanation WEEKS later did nothing to stem the tide of folks who would see that and be eternally set against him. He basically ensured his message would be lost from the jump.

I imagine Kaepernick doesn't care about folks who are more concerned with what socks he's wearing than what he was protesting.

1 minute ago, westside2 said:

I'm all for protesting racism. Just not during sports. Racism has been around before we had this country. It didn't start with America. If we're going to have this discussion, let's be honest. Totally honest. Not this, if you don't agree with me, or if your white and haven't asked for forgiveness BS. 

Shout "all lives matter" during a protest or riot and see how peaceful people are.

all lives matter lmfao

[thebandit27]

2 minutes ago, FireChans said:

I used to feel more strongly about Kaep, but I have softened on him a bit. He went into political activism without fully understanding how opposition would hit him.

 

The police socks gaffe (and it was a gaffe) is the perfect example of this. His explanation WEEKS later did nothing to stem the tide of folks who would see that and be eternally set against him. He basically ensured his message would be lost from the jump.

I definitely agree that he would’ve benefited from some foresight regarding how not to undermine his own message.

[FireChans]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

I imagine Kaepernick doesn't care about folks who are more concerned with what socks he's wearing than what he was protesting.

That's exactly why he failed. Those were the people he should have been trying to convince.

 

The us vs them mentality doesn't work when you need the "them" to help make a change.

[SDS]

1 hour ago, westside2 said:

How about having an honest conversation. It's not police killing blacks, it's blacks killing blacks that's the problem 

Blaming it on white people is such a cowardly response. 

You should find a group of black people and other minorities and share your wisdom. Let them know you figured it out and tell them what the real problem is. And then make sure to let them know how cowardly they are.

[Westside]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I typically just ignore obvious baiting comments like this but I will try to explain to you. There are already laws in place to charge and sentence murderers. If a black citizen kills another black citizen there will be a full criminal investigation and the offender will be punished if he is caught. There are already numerous organizations dedicated to stopping gang violence and helping young kids in extremely poor communities avoid that fate. Professional black athletes give a ton of money to these organizations. You are lying if you say they ignore that issue.

 

The point of this entire conversation is that there is not a similar system for stopping race motivated police brutality. In decades past, most incidents like George Floyd were swept under the rug. The officer would give his own version of events and that would be that. To use your own example this would be like if a murderer was arrested and said "I didn't do it" and they just let him go. The only reason things have changed recently is that everyone has a camera now. The brutality can no longer be ignored because it is caught on camera. And still it takes two days of protests and riots for George Floyd's murderer to be arrested and charged. It takes several more days for his cohorts to be arrested. Can you think of any other scenario where a murder is caught on camera and the offenders are not immediately taken into custody? And Floyd is just the most extreme example. There are countless lesser examples that add up to a system of oppression and abuse that has persisted for over a century.

 

In trying to illuminate what you believe to be the real problem, you have instead given a perfect explanation for why so many people are fighting for change. If you were trying to have an actual conversation with this comment, I look forward to your response. If you were just looking to score a cheap point in a serious conversation, you can move on. There are other forums out there that will accept the kind of "critical thinking" you have displayed here.

Spare me your liberal indignation. Have you bowed down and ask for forgiveness yet? The reason Democratic cities are such sh$tholes have nothing to do with racist whites. People need to be responsible for their own actions in life. Stop the blame game. 

Just now, SDS said:

You should find a group of black people and other minorities and share your wisdom. Let them know you figured it out and tell them what the real problem is. And then make sure to let them know how cowardly they are.

Do you have white guilt? 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

You might be interested in the work of Laura Ingraham. I think you’ll find yourself nodding along to her musings. If you’re looking for someone to help you silence the voices of an oppressed population she’s the one for you!! 

 

Laura Ingraham:

LeBron James: "Shut up and Dribble, keep political commentary to yourself"

Drew Brees: "He's allowed to have an opinion"

 

That's sarcasm, right?  Although I guess she would in truth likely write stuff to silence voices of oppression

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, Happy said:

 

You missed my original point.  Most fans don't want to see social justice displayed in a pro sports setting, that is not why they come to games, follow sports, etc.  It is not the players' nor the job of the NFLPA/NFL to make spectators "uncomfortable" or think about societal issues; sporting events are not the time and place for it.   It is just the opposite; the job of the players and the league is to entertain people in exchange for people's money.  A few years ago when Kapernick started kneeling during the anthem, and others followed suit, there were attendance issues at stadiums across the country.  Why?  Because people don't want to see these types of displays.  It hurt the owner's bottom line and the kneeling was "encouraged" to stop.  

 

The players will kneel this season for the anthem; I saw an article just this morning where Adrian Peterson mentioned as much.  This shouldn't come as a surprise.  I think the NFL needs to not play the National Anthem at the beginning of games.  Most other team sports (hockey and baseball, for example) play the anthem, but I think the NFL should rethink playing it before games.

I understood what you wrote, but you’re missing my point.  What you don’t like about it is exactly the point of it being done that way. 

[Penfield45]

18 hours ago, Chaos said:

My observation is that 99.9 percent of people are not participating in protests  but the media is providing 24x7 coverage of those that are resulting in a complete lack of perspective of any other 

viewpoints. 

 

you are so totally wrong. there are 1milion + entering DC today to protest. this is the biggest national uprising in decades. its people like you who try to downplay it.

[HappyDays]

Okay, there's no need for me to quote that post. I appreciate conversations like this because it reveals certain people to be what they really are. Confronted with logical responses to their cheap talking points, they become angry and try to bring you down to their level. The fun part is not letting them.

[SDS]

4 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Your only allowed to have an opinion if it matches the left's beliefs. If it doesn't,  you're racist.

it also could be the fact that ignorant racist views are just in fact racist. Occam’s razor. 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, HappyDays said:

Okay, there's no need for me to quote that post. I appreciate conversations like this because it reveals certain people to be what they really are. Confronted with logical responses to their cheap talking points, they become angry and try to bring you down to their level. The fun part is not letting them.

I got it. You don't agree with me, you're a racist. 

[aristocrat]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Laura Ingraham:

LeBron James: "Shut up and Dribble, keep political commentary to yourself"

Drew Brees: "He's allowed to have an opinion"

 

That's sarcasm, right?  Although I guess she would in truth likely write stuff to silence voices of oppression

also lebron,  don’t say anything bad about China cause it costs me money. Lebron is just as big of a hypocrite as the next guy.

[GoBills808]

7 minutes ago, westside2 said:

Do you go to the kids funeral and tell the parents because they're white, they're kids life doesn't matter?

I usually just ignore racist people. Maybe you'll surprise me and not be racist.

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I had two problems with Kaep’s kneeling from the beginning:

 

1) the original statement where he contended that unarmed black men are murdered by police daily; I understand it’s a very sensitive subject, and yes, it’s 100% true that even one is too many, but his narrative was false. It made his overall purpose of raising awareness of racial and cultural inequities diluted. That’s a shame because I think there would’ve been less backlash if his initial commentary had been more grounded or measured.  I’d like to think that I’d have been more receptive, As I admit that it made me listen less.
 

2) protesting is something to be done on one’s own time; not on the time of a person that is paying you millions of dollars to play a game.

 

All of that said: the players had every right to protest, so long as they were willing to accept that owners had every right to respond as they saw fit.

1.) Hyperbole is a time honored literary tool used for emphasizing a larger point. I know you know this. It’s possible CP knows this, too, and he didn’t see the need to insult the intelligence of people by having to explain that to us. It was clear to me he was being purposely hyperbolic to emphasize his larger point so I suspect others who also saw how clear that was chose to disregard that just to discredit his message. That said and in retrospect, CP should have explained the reason for the hyperbole to better serve his own interests. Then again, that wouldn’t have satisfied anyone was outraged and offended. 

 

2.) The 49ers organization supported his decision to protest during the anthem.