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NFL's next great dynasty? Chiefs, Cowboys, Bills among candidates

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5 hours ago, BillsFan692 said:

Don't delude yourself, the NFL picks the winners and losers by exerting as much influence as possible. 

It's not a "statistical improbability" what Belichick and Brady have done, one only has to consider all of the angles. Sure, Brady and Bill are good, great even. But that's all it took to get started. Once the NFL realized what they had in the "patriots" (a team EVERBODY loves & hates) it just made complete and total business sense to insure that gravy train kept rolling along. Whether that takes the form of soft discipline, special referee treatment, soft schedules, etc. It gets the job done.

But those days are numbered and it's time for the NFL to turn the corner. What's the next new and exciting team that they can 'sell'. I can see the bills in the running. We'll see how the refs calls go our way (or not) through out this season... we'll get a sense of where we stand. 


 

 

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3 hours ago, papazoid said:

Dynasty ?....thats a mouthful

 

only KC is currently on that list right now for me, with that kind of potential.

 

credit to beane and mcdermott for getting us on such a list

 

If the Bills can give their fans the same type of run the Giants had with Coughlin then I would be fine with that. The Giants missed the playoffs most of the time with TC but two championships more than make up for the losing seasons.

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The problem with winning teams, will be the cost of players. When teams become good, other teams start poaching your players with paying them way too much money. Also you can not pay everyone what they want. Examples paying Solder, Flowers, Brown and others 

the highest contracts for their positions. This is where the Chiefs, Bills, Cowboys and others will have to figure things out. Who to keep and who to let walk. You can not have 2 or 3 players eating up 40 % of your cap.

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11 minutes ago, dogbyte said:

The problem with winning teams, will be the cost of players. When teams become good, other teams start poaching your players with paying them way too much money. Also you can not pay everyone what they want. Examples paying Solder, Flowers, Brown and others 

the highest contracts for their positions. This is where the Chiefs, Bills, Cowboys and others will have to figure things out. Who to keep and who to let walk. You can not have 2 or 3 players eating up 40 % of your cap.

 

Beane seems to have a good handle and understanding of this, the way he has managed the cap. He always talks about building thru the draft and resigning our own players as a big priority. He did go out and sign Diggs but the majority of this core is thru the draft. He also preaches spending responsibly. I really think with Beane the Bills will continue to do a good job of what you just mentioned.

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17 minutes ago, dogbyte said:

The problem with winning teams, will be the cost of players. When teams become good, other teams start poaching your players with paying them way too much money. Also you can not pay everyone what they want. Examples paying Solder, Flowers, Brown and others 

the highest contracts for their positions. This is where the Chiefs, Bills, Cowboys and others will have to figure things out. Who to keep and who to let walk. You can not have 2 or 3 players eating up 40 % of your cap.

That is part of the reason that Gunner and I were giving the Cowboys credit . Outside of the draft picks, Gallup and Vander Esch all of the Cowboys core is on at least their 2nd contract. The Chiefs are about to have to make decisions because Mahomes is ready for his extension. I trust Beane to navigate that but the Bills clearly haven’t gotten to that point yet.

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KC has most of the core under contract for the next few years.  2020 the entire core is back.  2021 is going to see alot of turnover, but we (KC) will have in 2021

 

Mahomes

Kelce

Hill

Frank Clark

Honey Badger

Juan Thornhill

Harrison Butker

Eric Fisher

Mitchell Schwartz

Clyde Edwards Hellaire

Willie Gay

Hitchens

 

....and others.  Hopefully they can find a way to sign Chris Jones long term.....he's the one major piece (Unless you count Sammy Watkins as a major piece) that aren't under contract through 21.

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I don't see the Cowboys or Bills as candidates without better QB's. Mahomes will keep KC in contention for the Lombardi trophy for many years to come. We'll be sick about passing on him for a very long time.

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Right now the Chiefs should be the only ones who are talked about as a real chance to be a Dynasty. 

 

Andy has built sustained winners before.   He did it in Philly years ago. Philly fell short of winning the NFC championship 3 out of 4 years in a row, otherwise they would be sitting with Buffalo as the only other team to be in 4 straight super bowls.  The problem with that old Philly team was Mcnabb. If Reid had a Mahomes back then the patriots dynasty probably doesn't exist. 

 

I dont see a single team right now that has a better shot than a team with a super stud at Qb, a dominant offense, and one of the greatest coaches ever at the helm. 

Edited by TwistofFate
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1 hour ago, Zerovoltz said:

KC has most of the core under contract for the next few years.  2020 the entire core is back.  2021 is going to see alot of turnover, but we (KC) will have in 2021

 

Mahomes

Kelce

Hill

Frank Clark

Honey Badger

Juan Thornhill

Harrison Butker

Eric Fisher

Mitchell Schwartz

Clyde Edwards Hellaire

Willie Gay

Hitchens

 

....and others.  Hopefully they can find a way to sign Chris Jones long term.....he's the one major piece (Unless you count Sammy Watkins as a major piece) that aren't under contract through 21.

 

Yea but cap space man. Screw having good players. Gotta have your cap space.

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On 5/20/2020 at 10:25 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

People just hate the Cowboys but it’s plausible to see how they COULD be great for a while. That doesn’t mean that they will be but if you objectively look at that roster it is great. McCarthy isn’t elite IMO but is a big step up from Garrett. They have that scrub division too. This exercise isn’t declaring someone the next dynasty. It is just showing teams that have a case and why. Dallas has a case.


I haven’t read the entire thread but wonder how a team can pay almost one hundred million dollars to three players and still form a dynasty? It’s seems as though that saddles them rather drastically.

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On 5/20/2020 at 9:11 AM, Kirby Jackson said:

I’m amazed that people are so down on Dallas. They have a ton of talent, a great draft, WAY better coaching and play in the worst division in the league. It’s very possible that they take a step. I would feel way worse about the Eagles who have questions everywhere (including QB). If that group were the ones wearing Cowboys jerseys we’d think way less of them. 

Dallas could definitely make a step up in that weak division. However, I just think some of us are doubtful of Dallas being mentioned as a potential “dynasty”. I guess it probably comes down to ones opinion on Dak. He isn’t a QB who’s the leader of a future dynasty imo. He’s a decent QB, but I don’t see him becoming elite, regardless of how talented the Dallas roster is. 

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42 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

Dallas could definitely make a step up in that weak division. However, I just think some of us are doubtful of Dallas being mentioned as a potential “dynasty”. I guess it probably comes down to ones opinion on Dak. He isn’t a QB who’s the leader of a future dynasty imo. He’s a decent QB, but I don’t see him becoming elite, regardless of how talented the Dallas roster is. 

100% buy this and can see that. I tend to agree with this as well. Dak to me is a good QB. He probably is a top 10 QB right now. Top 10 QBs though aren’t a part of dynasties. He’d have to take a step from good QB to great QB. 
 

It goes to my other point though as to why no one questioned the Eagles being right below? Dak is well ahead of Wentz as of today. Additionally Dallas has better talent all over the offense. I suspect Dallas was targeted because we dislike Dallas and are indifferent on the Eagles. Objectively though, does anyone think that those 2 teams have the same future ahead? 

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5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

100% buy this and can see that. I tend to agree with this as well. Dak to me is a good QB. He probably is a top 10 QB right now. Top 10 QBs though aren’t a part of dynasties. He’d have to take a step from good QB to great QB. 
 

It goes to my other point though as to why no one questioned the Eagles being right below? Dak is well ahead of Wentz as of today. Additionally Dallas has better talent all over the offense. I suspect Dallas was targeted because we dislike Dallas and are indifferent on the Eagles. Objectively though, does anyone think that those 2 teams have the same future ahead? 

Yes, the Eagles are worse in literally every way except maybe coaching, but they made the playoffs last year out of that division and recency bias plays a part in this stuff on here.

 

You don’t see posts on here bashing Wentz as a bum like you did last year. Just like all this Dak bashing is new. TBD rises and falls with the seasons. 

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14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

100% buy this and can see that. I tend to agree with this as well. Dak to me is a good QB. He probably is a top 10 QB right now. Top 10 QBs though aren’t a part of dynasties. He’d have to take a step from good QB to great QB. 
 

It goes to my other point though as to why no one questioned the Eagles being right below? Dak is well ahead of Wentz as of today. Additionally Dallas has better talent all over the offense. I suspect Dallas was targeted because we dislike Dallas and are indifferent on the Eagles. Objectively though, does anyone think that those 2 teams have the same future ahead? 

 

All this. I often agree with you Kirby but I particularly agree with you on this.

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2 hours ago, TroutDog said:


I haven’t read the entire thread but wonder how a team can pay almost one hundred million dollars to three players and still form a dynasty? It’s seems as though that saddles them rather drastically.

It really doesn’t though as long as they continue to draft well. Their core is in place for multiple years. As an example they have 7 players on the “best 100 players” that Pete Prisco did this week (Zeke 17, Dak 46, Martin 50, Lawrence 58, Collins 77, Smith 80, and Cooper 81). All of those guys are signed through 2022 (assuming that they keep Dak). They have other guys as well like Jaylon Smith, Trevon Diggs and Ceedee Lamb signed through then as well.
 

You can get in cap trouble when you spend on the wrong guys. Outside of maybe Cooper I don’t think that they’ve spent poorly at all. Their best players are the ones committed to and will be filled in around. The middle and back of the roster will be younger guys on rookie deals but so what? If we were to use the Bills as the comparison it would be like saying “we can’t afford the $6M cap hit for AJ Klein so we are going to play Vosean Joseph and his $690k cap hit there.” The drop off is minimal or doesn’t even exist. The decisions that Dallas has to make at this point are decisions like that. They don’t have to decide between Zack Martin and a rookie 4th rounder. Hope that makes sense

Edited by Kirby Jackson
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24 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It really doesn’t though as long as they continue to draft well. Their core is in place for multiple years. As an example they have 7 players on the “best 100 players” that Pete Prisco did this week (Zeke 17, Dak 46, Martin 50, Lawrence 58, Collins 77, Smith 80, and Cooper 81). All of those guys are signed through 2022 (assuming that they keep Dak). They have other guys as well like Jaylon Smith, Trevon Diggs and Ceedee Lamb signed through then as well.
 

You can get in cap trouble when you spend on the wrong guys. Outside of maybe Cooper I don’t think that they’ve spent poorly at all. Their best players are the ones committed to and will be filled in around. The middle and back of the roster will be younger guys on rookie deals but so what? If we were to use the Bills as the comparison it would be like saying “we can’t afford the $6M cap hit for AJ Klein so we are going to play Vosean Joseph and his $690k cap hit there.” The drop off is minimal or doesn’t even exist. The decisions that Dallas has to make at this point are decisions like that. They don’t have to decide between Zach Martin and a rookie 4th rounder. Hope that makes sense

 

Yep. What disappears when you draft well enough to have elite players under contract for the long term is your middle class on your roster. The Kleins and Normans and Jeffersons that Beane has signed for the Bills this year... they don't exist when Tre and Dion and Tremaine and Ed and possibly Cody Ford and Josh are all getting paid. Which is why it is extra important that you draft well. But the Cowboys have been drafting well. So long as they continue to do that they will stay competitive for a long time. Will they be a dynasty? Nobody is saying that. The likelihood is no immediate replacement dynast emerges from the Patriots shadow but if you are listing teams for whom it is possible, then a team with 7 or 8 elite guys under contract for a number of years and who keep stacking together good draft classes has to be in the conversation.

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39 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

It really doesn’t though as long as they continue to draft well. Their core is in place for multiple years. As an example they have 7 players on the “best 100 players” that Pete Prisco did this week (Zeke 17, Dak 46, Martin 50, Lawrence 58, Collins 77, Smith 80, and Cooper 81). All of those guys are signed through 2022 (assuming that they keep Dak). They have other guys as well like Jaylon Smith, Trevon Diggs and Ceedee Lamb signed through then as well.
 

You can get in cap trouble when you spend on the wrong guys. Outside of maybe Cooper I don’t think that they’ve spent poorly at all. Their best players are the ones committed to and will be filled in around. The middle and back of the roster will be younger guys on rookie deals but so what? If we were to use the Bills as the comparison it would be like saying “we can’t afford the $6M cap hit for AJ Klein so we are going to play Vosean Joseph and his $690k cap hit there.” The drop off is minimal or doesn’t even exist. The decisions that Dallas has to make at this point are decisions like that. They don’t have to decide between Zack Martin and a rookie 4th rounder. Hope that makes sense


Thank you! Knowing what a crap shoot the draft can be it seems as though it’s a calculated gamble...with a lot on the line. A couple bad drafts and it’s all shot, no? Or am I overthinking this based on the Bills anemic drafting before the current regime?

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1 minute ago, TroutDog said:


Thank you! Knowing what a crap shoot the draft can be it seems as though it’s a calculated gamble...with a lot on the line. A couple bad drafts and it’s all shot, no? Or am I overthinking this based on the Bills anemic drafting before the current regime?

 

So I think there is a certain degree of Bills fans needing to recalibrate how they think. That is a result of finally having a FO with a good strategic vision. Cap space is not something to strive for. Elite players is. Good drafts shouldn't be seen as a lightening bolt, they should be seen as an expectation. Contracts being structured to pay the money up front and leave the team maximum flexibility on the backend isn't cashing in all the chips.

 

If the Cowboys draft badly then their model can't work though, that is true. The most important thing to maintaining a dynasty in the modern era, even more important than having the Quarterback IMO, is drafting. The Patriots show this as well as anyone. They had the first phase of dynasty while Brady was cheap. And then when he first became expensive they were only moderate drafters and they didn't win a Superbowl. I know they got to two and lost but they were not as dominant. Then, suddenly the first half of this last decade they start smashing it out of the park in the draft - McCourty, Gronk, Solder, Cannon, Jones, Hightower, Ryan, Collins, White, Mason, Flowers, Brown, Thuney.... and suddenly they win Superbowls again. Doesn't mean you never need to add a FA here or there. Doesn't mean that you don't still need a Quarterback. But in the salary cap and FA era the main thing you need to do is draft well and consistently. As soon as the Patriots drafting tailed off again.... and their last 3 or 4 drafts have not been good.... they suddenly look like a poor team.

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16 minutes ago, TroutDog said:


Thank you! Knowing what a crap shoot the draft can be it seems as though it’s a calculated gamble...with a lot on the line. A couple bad drafts and it’s all shot, no? Or am I overthinking this based on the Bills anemic drafting before the current regime?

No I think that you are spot on. A couple of bad drafts and you become too top-heavy. The irony is that the Cowboys have drafted really, really well over the last few years. They’ve actually acquired so much talent that they can probably make a few gaffes in the draft and still be fine.
 

They were lucky this draft but I thought that they did an outstanding job. I expect them to have 6 of their draft picks playing regularly as rookies (Lamb, Diggs, Gallimore, Robinson, Biadasz and Anae). It’s possible that Biadasz, Lamb, and Diggs start while the 2 defensive linemen rotate in and Robinson plays in certain packages. On a team that already has a lot of talent it’s crazy to think that they could have such a good draft. They were definitely lucky in that they drafted 5 of those guys about as late as they could have possibly gone (or in Anae’s case about 3 rounds after). 

Edited by Kirby Jackson
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33 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

No I think that you are spot on. A couple of bad drafts and you become too top-heavy. The irony is that the Cowboys have drafted really, really well over the last few years. They’ve actually acquired so much talent that they can probably make a few gaffes in the draft and still be fine.
 

They were lucky this draft but I thought that they did an outstanding job. I expect them to have 6 of their draft picks playing regularly as rookies (Lamb, Diggs, Gallimore, Robinson, Biadasz and Anae). It’s possible that Biadasz, Lamb, and Diggs start while the 2 defensive linemen rotate in and Robinson plays in certain packages. On a team that already has a lot of talent it’s crazy to think that they could have such a good draft. They were definitely lucky in that they drafted 5 of those guys about as late as they could have possibly gone (or in Anae’s case about 3 rounds after). 

Getting Biadasz right when their C retired is huge. They basically filled their needs and got some really talented players. 

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