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How fast is Josh Allen and can he get faster?

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He's certainly fast enough. He's deceptively fast. Certainly plays much faster than 4.75 on the field. Mahomes is somewhat similar. Mahomes ran a 4.8 But when I watch Mahomes he looks like a guy to me that is running more like a 4.9 but he is effective. I think defenses are so afraid of Mahomes throwing, as they should be, that it gives him extra room to run. There is no way he should have scored that rushing TD against the Titans before the half but somehow he did. If Allen can become a major threat with his arm consistently he will start to see huge running lanes consistently. Hopefully he starts to take advantage of the passing lanes next season that his running threat is providing for him so far in his career. We did see him do this a few times this year running towards the LOS and we all thought he would run for the first and instead he makes an easy toss for the completion.

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6 hours ago, Reality Check said:

I would prefer that he gets the ball out faster, even if that includes throwing it away. I am not a fan of the hits he was taking towards the end of the season. For every one of those hits, his future gets a little dimmer. Not good. They need to get this kid help. Against the Texans, that o-line couldn't even handle 5 on 3 defenders. Completely unacceptable.

 

People who think Allen will phase out running are delusional.

 

Yes, Allen obviously needs to work on his passing game.

 

That's separate from what he does and can do as a runner, which is to learn to slide and get out of bounds and get faster.

 

And I think the myth that the running QB takes more vicious hits has been squashed already. Some of the worst hits he took were sitting in the pocket behind the LOS waiting to throw.

6 hours ago, Buddo said:

He could undoubtedly train to go faster.

 

It would almost certainly require a different set of exercises, and emphasis, than he has now.

 

Very likely to the detriment of his ability to play QB, mainly due to weight loss and consequently being less able to absorb punishment.

 

Iirc his combine 40 didn't look as though he was going at it full on, so I'd treat that time with a pinch of salt.

 

Allen was often around the lead of the guys for top speed attained - more particularly in the 2018 season. I would assume that those top speeds, could be extrapolated, and put into a different 40 time, that might give a better idea of how quick he is relatively.

 

I wouldn't say he's the quickest 'off the blocks', but you really don't want to give him a few yards to get going, because he's plenty quick enough to make many guys look silly.

 

I've only watched the first of the two clips, but I didn't see (m)any instances of him being brought down from behind, which is a pretty decent indicator of having some serious game speed.

 

I'm not overly concerned if he gets faster. I don't want him to lose weight, that's for sure.

 

But rewatching some plays where he's pacing DBs makes me wonder how fast he really is.

 

Is he the 2nd fastest QB in the NFL?

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1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

He's certainly fast enough. He's deceptively fast. Certainly plays much faster than 4.75 on the field. Mahomes is somewhat similar. Mahomes ran a 4.8 But when I watch Mahomes he looks like a guy to me that is running more like a 4.9 but he is effective. I think defenses are so afraid of Mahomes throwing, as they should be, that it gives him extra room to run. There is no way he should have scored that rushing TD against the Titans before the half but somehow he did. If Allen can become a major threat with his arm consistently he will start to see huge running lanes consistently. Hopefully he starts to take advantage of the passing lanes next season that his running threat is providing for him so far in his career. We did see him do this a few times this year running towards the LOS and we all thought he would run for the first and instead he makes an easy toss for the completion.

Mahomes and Allen are similar runners.  Josh would be well advised to watch Pat play and adopt some of his tendencies suc as keeping his eyes downfield when breaking contain, ball security, and getting OOB or sliding unless it’s absolutely necessary (like a TD right before halftime in the AFCCG).  Taking hits to gain an additional 4 yards of field position simply isn’t a worthwhile trade.

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7 hours ago, Reality Check said:

I would prefer that he gets the ball out faster, even if that includes throwing it away. I am not a fan of the hits he was taking towards the end of the season. For every one of those hits, his future gets a little dimmer. Not good. They need to get this kid help. Against the Texans, that o-line couldn't even handle 5 on 3 defenders. Completely unacceptable.

Running is an effective part of his game. We should not take that away.

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Allen's running technique in his Combine 40 is horrendous. When you watch it, it's almost comical, looks like an interior lineman.

 

Most guys train hard for the 40, & learn a proper track start, and how to maximize posture & acceleration. I know he said he trained with a speed coach, but I'd guess it was only a couple times based on how he looked. I think it made him run in a way he wasn't yet accustomed to, and it was awkward for him. He is a 10x better runner & athlete than that 40 indicated. Josh is a top-5 runner at QB, no doubt about it.

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According to Josh in an interview he said with his long legs it takes him longer to get up to speed (think a car with tall gears).    Once he gets moving he's fast,   he just has slower acceleration ability.  He is also agile which makes him look quicker when being perused. 

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2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

People who think Allen will phase out running are delusional.

 

You mean like McDermott and Beane, who both said words to the effect of "we want him to be a generator of offense handing off and with his arm, not to feel he needs to do it all himself"?  

 

I don't think he'll ever not run, but he needs to be more comfortable in his skin about when to run and when to wait for a pass play to develop.  I feel indecision hurt him at times this year.  And I could be wrong, but I don't think McBeane are happy about some of the designed runs that Daboll has put in for him, especially the runs between the tackles.

 

 I generally take your point that he can run and go out of bounds or slide and take contact with more control than standing in to make a throw, but some of those designed runs between the tackles are dealing him wicked punishment, as did that run vs Houston where Knox whiffed his block.

 

As far as slides, though, that slide in the highlights before the half in the Iggles game was Sick (about 6 min in to the 2nd highlight you linked).  Neat, perfectly timed and placed to avoid contact, and ending in a quick time-out call with 2 seconds left.  He definitely knows how to slide when he decides to.

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1 hour ago, Comebackkid said:

According to Josh in an interview he said with his long legs it takes him longer to get up to speed (think a car with tall gears).    Once he gets moving he's fast,   he just has slower acceleration ability.  He is also agile which makes him look quicker when being perused. 

 

That absolutely makes sense, and jibes with my comment about why TE don't commonly get used as RB on designed runs between the tackles.  He needs quick acceleration to get to the hole just behind his blockers and it often seems mis-timed to me (he doesn't get there quick enough).  That initial burst acceleration *might* be something that could be honed a bit.

 

Know with whom/where that interview was or got a link? Like to give it a listen

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12 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Josh Allen obviously isn't Lamar Jackson or Mike Vick in terms of speed specifically, but Allen was clocked in at a 4.75 at the Combine.

 

Here's a list of QBs who ran faster than 4.75 at the combine:

 

Derek Carr

Blaine Gabbert

Marcus Mariota 

Andrew Luck

Mitchell Trubisky 

 

Ben Roethlisberger had the same time.

 

I challenge folks to watch these 2 highlight videos and focus solely on his "breakaway runs." 

 

 

Personally, I see him running with and even outrunning DBs frequently.

 

We all know Jerry Rice was clocked at 4.7 and that simply wasn't his game speed. His game speed was more like 4.5 or 4.4.

 

So how about Josh once the pads go on? Does he look faster than any/all the guys mentioned above?

 

What about Aaron Rodgers?

 

What about Russell Wilson?

 

And finally... can players train and get faster? Is it possible that's what actually happened between the Combine and the 2018 season or was it just "pajama speed" vs "pad speed?"

Why?  He’s certainly a proficient runner now.  Being a marginally better runner isn’t going to make or break him as a pro QB, his passing is.  He should spend his time working on that. 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You mean like McDermott and Beane, who both said words to the effect of "we want him to be a generator of offense handing off and with his arm, not to feel he needs to do it all himself"?  

 

I don't think he'll ever not run, but he needs to be more comfortable in his skin about when to run and when to wait for a pass play to develop.  I feel indecision hurt him at times this year.  And I could be wrong, but I don't think McBeane are happy about some of the designed runs that Daboll has put in for him, especially the runs between the tackles.

 

 I generally take your point that he can run and go out of bounds or slide and take contact with more control than standing in to make a throw, but some of those designed runs between the tackles are dealing him wicked punishment, as did that run vs Houston where Knox whiffed his block.

 

As far as slides, though, that slide in the highlights before the half in the Iggles game was Sick (about 6 min in to the 2nd highlight you linked).  Neat, perfectly timed and placed to avoid contact, and ending in a quick time-out call with 2 seconds left.  He definitely knows how to slide when he decides to.

 

For the record, I loathe the designed QB runs. They scare me.

 

But I think Allen will and should continue to scramble on passing plays when he sees fit.

 

Of course we want him to do it mostly with his arm. But his legs are pretty clearly always going to be part of his game and are part of what makes him special.

 

Russell Wilson ran for 342 yards and 3 TDs this year. I'm guessing that's the mould they're looking for Allen to follow.

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

For the record, I loathe the designed QB runs. They scare me.

 

But I think Allen will and should continue to scramble on passing plays when he sees fit.

 

Of course we want him to do it mostly with his arm. But his legs are pretty clearly always going to be part of his game and are part of what makes him special.

 

Russell Wilson ran for 342 yards and 3 TDs this year. I'm guessing that's the mould they're looking for Allen to follow.

 

I don't disagree with you on the second point, with the caveat I think he needs to be more decisive.  I don't even mind some of the designed QB runs - some within a few yards of the goal line where he winds up going into the endzone untouched have been pretty sweet.  The first long run in the Houston game (where everybody blocked) was sweet. 

 

But those designed runs between the tackles for routine yards should be a "No", especially off a play fake.  Allen doesn't have the quick acceleration to follow his blockers properly, I think may be part of the problem, especially if he's starting in the backfield.

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He really runs fast, no doubt about that. I hope he keeps doing it. Of course he has mostly to improve as a passing QB but he is the most dangerous runner after Lamar and maybe Russell Wilson. Why put a lid on that? That Cheatriots hit that knocked him out of the game is an exception, and he really put it on a line to get a 1st down, which he'll rarely have to do. Like many running QBs, he was hit harder (besides that one hit) as a pocket passer than as a runner.

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I think its a difference between timed speed and game speed.....Josh Allen has game speed.....

 

Just really would like to see Josh run to the marker more in games....not 20 to 30 yard runs just reset the downs when it is not obvious someone is open. I feel that this also opens up his game when he is struggling

 

 

MAKE them respect it.

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12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

One of the things that frustrates me in some of the designed run plays we call for him is that at times, it appears to me that he's a step slow behind his blockers and a player with quicker acceleration (*cough* Motor *cough*) would hit the hole faster and be more elusive.  There's a reason why big TE guys don't play running back often

 

 

 

 

 

 

This. He's fast. He's not particularly quick. Designed QB runs generally require the element of surprise or a really quick QB. Opposing D's will never lose sight of Allen as a runner, so the element of surprise won't be there. Total waste of plays.

9 hours ago, Billl said:

Mahomes and Allen are similar runners. 

Eh. I think Allen is a much better runner than Mahomes personally, but the similarity may be there and I don't disagree with the rest of your post.

Edited by LSHMEAB

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On 2/1/2020 at 1:32 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That absolutely makes sense, and jibes with my comment about why TE don't commonly get used as RB on designed runs between the tackles.  He needs quick acceleration to get to the hole just behind his blockers and it often seems mis-timed to me (he doesn't get there quick enough).  That initial burst acceleration *might* be something that could be honed a bit.

 

Know with whom/where that interview was or got a link? Like to give it a listen

Off top of my head I don't remember when or where it was that I seen it. It was just in one of the interviews when they were talking about  why is 40 times seemed a lot slower than what he look like on the field

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On 2/1/2020 at 3:06 AM, transplantbillsfan said:

Josh Allen obviously isn't Lamar Jackson or Mike Vick in terms of speed specifically, but Allen was clocked in at a 4.75 at the Combine.

 

Here's a list of QBs who ran faster than 4.75 at the combine:

 

Derek Carr

Blaine Gabbert

Marcus Mariota 

Andrew Luck

Mitchell Trubisky 

 

Ben Roethlisberger had the same time.

 

I challenge folks to watch these 2 highlight videos and focus solely on his "breakaway runs." 

 

 

Personally, I see him running with and even outrunning DBs frequently.

 

We all know Jerry Rice was clocked at 4.7 and that simply wasn't his game speed. His game speed was more like 4.5 or 4.4.

 

So how about Josh once the pads go on? Does he look faster than any/all the guys mentioned above?

 

What about Aaron Rodgers?

 

What about Russell Wilson?

 

And finally... can players train and get faster? Is it possible that's what actually happened between the Combine and the 2018 season or was it just "pajama speed" vs "pad speed?"

He looks considerably faster than 4.75 to me

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On 2/1/2020 at 10:00 AM, JMF2006 said:

 

Maybe a true number one TE that doesn`t drop half the  catchable  passes thrown his way

I am nowhere near giving up on Dawson Knox.  He showed a lot of potential, imho.

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1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am nowhere near giving up on Dawson Knox.  He showed a lot of potential, imho.

 

I think he's going to be a beast, honestly.

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2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I think he's going to be a beast, honestly.

 

That's really where the Bills are overall. 

 

We need to see 3 or 4 of our young players take a step - less fumbles and drops from Motor, far fewer drops and better blocks from Knox, improvement from Ford.

 

They all have potential to be beasts, *if only*

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's really where the Bills are overall. 

 

We need to see 3 or 4 of our young players take a step - less fumbles and drops from Motor, far fewer drops and better blocks from Knox, improvement from Ford.

 

They all have potential to be beasts, *if only*

 

Ford is the one I worry about the most.

 

I honestly think Knox and Motor take big steps this offseason. Both came from relatively small college stages and Knox got very little in game practice catching the football.

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11 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I am nowhere near giving up on Dawson Knox.  He showed a lot of potential, imho.

 

Me neither but right now he needs to be number 2 on the depth chart and I hope its behind Greg Olsen.

 

What a great mentor he would make for the Bills young TE`s Knox and Sweeney.

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