mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I don't know how much you've been involved with looking into all of the supposed connections Trump has had with Putin but I encourage you to think about how Trump has been a pain in Putin's ass since he became our President. He's provided Ukraine with deadly weapons to use against Russia. This is something Obama wouldn't do. He's put sanctions on Russian Oligarchs who are the real power backing Putin. He's strengthened NATO much to Putin's consternation. He's discouraged Europe from relying on Russian gas and oil while at the same time ramping up our production and trying to not only take market share from Russia but reduce the price of energy to starve the Russian economy. These things are not what a person does who is buddy buddy with another leader. I encourage you to state your case with specific instances referring to their collusion and I'll bet you'll find enough people here (including DR who has done the most actual research by far) that can give you the facts to disprove your thoughts on this matter. I will respectfully decline to go down this rabbit-hole since it's not what I came here to talk about. But I will say that I disagree with a number of your statements above. Trump did not give deadly weapons to Ukraine; the US Congress did, and Trump (infamously) tried to stop it. He has not strengthened NATO; he has essentially said he would not come to the aid of certain NATO members if they were attacked. And I can never forget nor forgive his despicable performance in Helsinki, where all but fellated Putin on the world stage. (I guess I did go down that rabbit-hole after all.) 18 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said: I don't know how much you've been involved with looking into all of the supposed connections Trump has had with Putin but I encourage you to think about how Trump has been a pain in Putin's ass since he became our President. He's provided Ukraine with deadly weapons to use against Russia. This is something Obama wouldn't do. He's put sanctions on Russian Oligarchs who are the real power backing Putin. He's strengthened NATO much to Putin's consternation. He's discouraged Europe from relying on Russian gas and oil while at the same time ramping up our production and trying to not only take market share from Russia but reduce the price of energy to starve the Russian economy. These things are not what a person does who is buddy buddy with another leader. I encourage you to state your case with specific instances referring to their collusion and I'll bet you'll find enough people here (including DR who has done the most actual research by far) that can give you the facts to disprove your thoughts on this matter. I will also add that you make a valid point with regard to your comments about Trump discouraging Europe from relying on Russian oil and gas. It's not all one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 https://www.the-sun.com/news/584801/scientists-find-40-mutations-of-coronavirus-and-admit-7-cases-traced-to-english-football-match/ The team of Icelandic scientists used genetic sequencing to identify how many mutations the virus had undergone. These genetic variations are like viral fingerprints - and help boffins pinpoint where in the world a virus originated. All viruses undergo mutations as they evolve, which may or may not cause them to behave in different ways. Some mutations will make a virus more infectious, others more deadly. Mutating is the process that would have allowed this new strain of coronavirus to attack the human body in the first place - allowing it to pass from its animal host. Scientists believe the new coronavirus remained hidden in animals for years, perhaps even decade before jumping from bats to humans, via a possible but unknown animal, in the Chinese city of Wuhan. Icelandic scientists investigated the virus within their own country, where one death has been reported. Don't take this as facts or truth just something interesting to read. Again no facts or truth just sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, mannc said: I will respectfully decline to go down this rabbit-hole since it's not what I came here to talk about. But I will say that I disagree with a number of your statements above. Trump did not give deadly weapons to Ukraine; the US Congress did, and Trump (infamously) tried to stop it. He has not strengthened NATO; he has essentially said he would not come to the aid of certain NATO members if they were attacked. And I can never forget nor forgive his despicable performance in Helsinki, where all but fellated Putin on the world stage. (I guess I did go down that rabbit-hole after all.) Wow, I guess I will leave your education to others then. Just remember the old saying that "the proof is in the pudding". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 minute ago, 3rdnlng said: Wow, I guess I will leave your education to others then. Just remember the old saying that "the proof is in the pudding". The fact that I don't agree with you on these things does not mean I'm not willing to listen. And I'm not sure what the bolded part means in the context of this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 43 minutes ago, Capco said: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52045958 So, the FBI agents who killed the right-wing extremist in Missouri before he could blow up that hospital... were they agents of the pre-Deep State cleansing or post-Deep State cleansing? I know the FBI was compromised and all that so I'm not sure who I should be thanking for this. Capco, making a rare drive-by appearance with a stupid question. The agents who killed the would be terrorists were not involved with the deep state who were mainly in the upper echelon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, mannc said: The fact that I don't agree with you on these things does not mean I'm not willing to listen. I truly appreciate this sentiment, and operate the same way myself. This isn’t the thread for this, but when you’re up for it there are several other threads in which we can. In the course of a polite conversation, I can likely prove, with evidence to support it, that much of what you (seem) the believe on this topic is inaccurate and/or incomplete. Not because you aren’t smart or informed, but because the entire subject was intentionally distorted by the same media you’re noticing do the same distortion to 45 during our current crisis. In my opinion, understanding just how badly the Russia story was covered (intentionally so) is a paradigm shaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: In the course of a polite conversation, I can likely prove, with evidence to support it, that much of what you (seem) the believe on this topic is inaccurate and/or incomplete. Not because you aren’t smart or informed, but because the entire subject was intentionally distorted by the same media you’re noticing do the same distortion to 45 during our current crisis. In my opinion, understanding just how badly the Russia story was covered (intentionally so) is a paradigm shaker. I'd be surprised, but after what I've seen the past week or so, I won't say it's impossible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 minute ago, mannc said: The fact that I don't agree with you on these things does not mean I'm not willing to listen. And I'm not sure what the bolded part means in the context of this discussion. Old expression basically meaning that the truth will show itself by deeds or results more than talk or bs. Keep in mind Trump is a NYC real estate developer and that means he grew up needing a thick skin and a sharp tongue. Real estate in Manhattan is on par with cage fights. He's also been a showman and does not lack bluster. He can does come off sometimes as a buffoon, but he's a deal maker at heart and uses his ingrained negotiating skills to get things done. He'll ask for a dollar when he really only needs fifty cents. Look at what he does, not what he says. Believe me, a lot of people here who will absolutely vote for him also make fun of his persona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted March 27, 2020 Author Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, TPS said: His daily update is the best.... As long as you take him with a large, full, bucket of salt, perhaps. Oh, and from his Twitter bio: "Former Medicare, Medicaid, ACA head for Obama." This bold statement has been proven false: And a screen shot of it, should it get deleted (he's been called out on it by numerous people already, yet it's still there): ----------------- Below pertains to the form he mentioned in his tweet: Edited March 27, 2020 by Hedge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk71 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 1 hour ago, mannc said: Well, we can argue about what "exponential" means, but it's hard to tell what to make of 82,000 "cases". What is a case? Is it defined the same from state to state and country to country? Does it mean positive tests? If so, it's not very meaningful since many who test positive exhibit few or no symptoms. Here in Oregon, they have performed 7,300 tests. Of all those tests, which are probably given mainly to people exhibiting symptoms, there have been only 316 positives, which is the number the state uses for CV19 "cases". (It's incredible to me that the percentage testing positive is so low.) But of those 319 positives, there have been only 90 hospitalizations and 11 deaths (all over 63 years old and all with pre-existing conditions) across the entire state. (It's not clear how many of those 90 were already hospitalized or in nursing homes before they contracted the disease.) If the same ratios apply to the national number of "cases" that should mean only about 23,000 hospitalizations nationwide. That's not a huge number and it should be nowhere near enough to inundate emergency rooms and ICU units around the country. As the numbers begin to flatten in NY, it's becoming clear that this is not going to look anything like some of the doomsday predictions. I hope you are right. I am also in Oregon and personally know two people who have tested positive. One was young and has recovered already and the other is still quite sick. She is late 40s and has not required hospitalization as of yet. A friend at the coast was really sick for over 3 weeks in February after travelling, she tested negative for the flu but was not tested for covid19. She has recovered now but says she thought she was going to die and had never felt so sick in her entire life. It's hard to tell what the numbers mean at this point or how many people have had it already, or how many asymptomatic infected people there are. I feel terrible for the healthcare workers in places like NYC when the system gets overwhelmed and especially if they don't have the protective gear they need. There safety should be of the highest priority imo. I'm hoping it spreads slow enough elsewhere to be handled and that the warmer weather has an effect. These stay at home measures can seem extreme but I hope it will keep things here at a manageable pace for the system we have and help shorten the crisis so we can all get back to living our lives to the fullest. I am immune compromised unfortunately so I am being extremely cautious. That said, I can't stay at home forever. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Turk71 said: I hope you are right. I am also in Oregon and personally know two people who have tested positive. One was young and has recovered already and the other is still quite sick. She is late 40s and has not required hospitalization as of yet. A friend at the coast was really sick for over 3 weeks in February after travelling, she tested negative for the flu but was not tested for covid19. She has recovered now but says she thought she was going to die and had never felt so sick in her entire life. It's hard to tell what the numbers mean at this point or how many people have had it already, or how many asymptomatic infected people there are. I feel terrible for the healthcare workers in places like NYC when the system gets overwhelmed and especially if they don't have the protective gear they need. There safety should be of the highest priority imo. I'm hoping it spreads slow enough elsewhere to be handled and that the warmer weather has an effect. These stay at home measures can seem extreme but I hope it will keep things here at a manageable pace for the system we have and help shorten the crisis so we can all get back to living our lives to the fullest. I am immune compromised unfortunately so I am being extremely cautious. That said, I can't stay at home forever. Keep safe Turk as well as you're friends. Hoping stops completely. Edited March 27, 2020 by Buffalo Bills Fan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, mannc said: If you had asked me three weeks ago, I would have said the likelihood of me voting for Trump was literally zero. One of my biggest issues with him is the lack of transparency--the refusal to release his tax returns and medical records, the fact that he did not divest of his interest in his company or even put it in a blind trust. He is also the most extreme narcissist I've ever seen. His opinion of other people is based entirely on whether they have said nice things about him or "treated him fairly." I also despise his anti-immigrant policies and statements. As I said, though, this recent self-inflicted crisis has been a huge eye-opener for me. Trump has been ruthlessly attacked by the media and the Twitterverse for doing nothing more than pushing back against panic and lunacy with common sense and optimism. I still hold largely negative views of Trump, but I am seeing why many of his supporters believe he is treated unfairly by the media. And if he gets us through this mess in one piece, he might just win my vote. Lack of transparency? He has had the FBI, CIA, intelligence agencies from US "allies" like the UK government, coordinated with the big tech companies like Google, going through his life with a fine tooth comb for at least 4 years, and has any information provided to the mainstream media crafted, and sensationalized to undermine anything and everything he does... and you're worried about his ***** tax returns (that no president is required to reveal) and his medical records (does he seem unhealthy?). Edited March 27, 2020 by 32ABBA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Turk71 said: I hope you are right. I am also in Oregon and personally know two people who have tested positive. One was young and has recovered already and the other is still quite sick. She is late 40s and has not required hospitalization as of yet. A friend at the coast was really sick for over 3 weeks in February after travelling, she tested negative for the flu but was not tested for covid19. She has recovered now but says she thought she was going to die and had never felt so sick in her entire life. It's hard to tell what the numbers mean at this point or how many people have had it already, or how many asymptomatic infected people there are. I feel terrible for the healthcare workers in places like NYC when the system gets overwhelmed and especially if they don't have the protective gear they need. There safety should be of the highest priority imo. I'm hoping it spreads slow enough elsewhere to be handled and that the warmer weather has an effect. These stay at home measures can seem extreme but I hope it will keep things here at a manageable pace for the system we have and help shorten the crisis so we can all get back to living our lives to the fullest. I am immune compromised unfortunately so I am being extremely cautious. That said, I can't stay at home forever. Very well said. I focused on number of hospitalizations because the shelter at home rules are designed to prevent too many patients at one time from overwhelming the hospitals. But it’s a nasty disease and many who aren’t hospitalized are suffering. (My sister, who lives on the east Coast, has it and says she had never been sicker.) I understand the reason for shelter at home rules, but they should be done in a common sense way and the need for continuing them has to be carefully considered on a week-to-week basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 2 hours ago, 32ABBA said: Lack of transparency? He has had the FBI, CIA, intelligence agencies from US "allies" like the UK government, coordinated with the big tech companies like Google, going through his life with a fine tooth comb for at least 4 years, and has any information provided to the mainstream media crafted, and sensationalized to undermine anything and everything he does... and you're worried about his ***** tax returns (that no president is required to reveal) and his medical records (does he seem unhealthy?). The fact that Trump has been extensively investigated does not make him “transparent.” He has stonewalled every investigation (largely successfully) and is going all the way to the Supreme Court to prevent us from seeing his tax returns. What is he hiding? And yes, he seems unhealthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, mannc said: The fact that Trump has been extensively investigated does not make him “transparent.” He has stonewalled every investigation (largely successfully) and is going all the way to the Supreme Court to prevent us from seeing his tax returns. What is he hiding? And yes, he seems unhealthy. You're too much of an idiot to bicker with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, 32ABBA said: You're too much of an idiot to bicker with. He's obese, can't read a teleprompter, had a health scare in December he has yet to disclose, and feeds on fast food and diet coke. It's okay to call #OrangeManBad unhealthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Thursday that his stay-at-home order for the entirety of New York State was “probably not the best public health strategy.” In a press conference in Albany, Cuomo said the smartest way forward would be a public health strategy that complemented a “get-back-to-work strategy.” “What we did was we closed everything down. That was our public health strategy. Just close everything, all businesses, old workers, young people, old people, short people, tall people,” said Cuomo. “Every school closed, everything.” “If you rethought that or had time to analyze that public health strategy, I don't know that you would say quarantine everyone,” Cuomo admitted. “I don't even know that that was the best public health policy. Young people then quarantined with older people was probably not the best public health strategy because the younger people could have been exposing the older people to an infection. “ Cuomo stressed the need for both public health and economic growth. “We have to do both,” said the governor. “We’re working on it.” https://www.foxnews.com/us/cuomo-closing-all-businesses-keeping-everyone-home-not-best-public-health-strategy I wonder how many people will be screaming about Cuomo wanting to sacrifice the vulnerable for the sake of the economy.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, 32ABBA said: You're too much of an idiot to bicker with. And right on cue....when presented with actual ideals and positions....the regulars break down to name calling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandemonium Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Just saw on the morning news that Boris Johnson tested positive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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