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HardyBoy

To All the People Saying They Went Into a Shell up 16-0...You're Missing the Strategy

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2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I fear that McDermott isn't ideal for the new NFL. He's good enough that he'll keep his job I think. But his coaching mentality and approach is always going to leave open the risk of good opposing QBs doing exactly what Watson did yesterday. 

 

However, McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead. If he were, he wouldn't have run Gore up the middle on 1st down to end the 1st half with 30 seconds left on the Texans 23 up by 10. He would have allowed Allen to use those 30 seconds to get off 5 or 6 good plays to try to score a TD and THEN be up by 3 scores.

 

Instead, he coached like a weeny, wasted 2 downs, was almost bailed out by a great pass to the EZ that Duke couldn't come down with, we kick the FG and go into the half up by just 2 scores against one of the best QB/WR combos in the NFL.

 

I want a perennial winner year in and year out. McDermott's coaching doesn't set us up for that because he will always leave windows open for the other team to get back into it.

 

This makes no sense to me. 

 

If McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead to end the first half, he would have ran the clock down with runs then kicked the FG. Instead, he was aggressive by letting his 2nd-year QB throw pass attempts into the end zone.

 

If D'haquille doesn't drop a touchdown in the end zone, it's 17-0 Bills at halftime. How is that McDermott's fault?

 

My problem with the coaching occurred in overtime when they forgot Singletary existed and decided to treat their offensive possession like a 2-minute drill even though there's virtually no game clock in overtime in the playoffs.

 

Up to that point I thought McDermott put the players in place to win the game and the players failed to execute.

 

If the Buffalo Bills offense were capable of scoring 100 points per game, they would. McDermott isn't telling them not to score. They're simply not good enough (yet?).

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4 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This makes no sense to me. 

 

If McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead to end the first half, he would have ran the clock down with runs then kicked the FG. Instead, he was aggressive by letting his 2nd-year QB throw pass attempts into the end zone.

 

If D'haquille doesn't drop a touchdown in the end zone, it's 17-0 Bills at halftime. How is that McDermott's fault?

 

My problem with the coaching occurred in overtime when they forgot Singletary existed and decided to treat their offensive possession like a 2-minute drill even though there's virtually no game clock in overtime in the playoffs.

 

Up to that point I thought McDermott put the players in place to win the game and the players failed to execute.

 

If the Buffalo Bills offense were capable of scoring 100 points per game, they would. McDermott isn't telling them not to score. They're simply not good enough (yet?).


how many times did “Gore’s turn” kill a drive?

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1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This makes no sense to me. 

 

If McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead to end the first half, he would have ran the clock down with runs then kicked the FG. Instead, he was aggressive by letting his 2nd-year QB throw pass attempts into the end zone.

 

If D'haquille doesn't drop a touchdown in the end zone, it's 17-0 Bills at halftime. How is that McDermott's fault?

 

My problem with the coaching occurred in overtime when they forgot Singletary existed and decided to treat their offensive possession like a 2-minute drill even though there's virtually no game clock in overtime in the playoffs.

 

Up to that point I thought McDermott put the players in place to win the game and the players failed to execute.

 

If the Buffalo Bills offense were capable of scoring 100 points per game, they would. McDermott isn't telling them not to score. They're simply not good enough (yet?).

Sure, Duke dropped the pass, but I like my odds of three passes into the end zone more than one. We could have done that, but instead ran Gore, and spiked the ball on second down. McD did this all season in that situation, and it’s a bad way to coach in 2019. I attended the Redskins game this season, and the clock management before the half was quite similar. We didn’t even attempt to score before the end of half in that game. The Redskins were a bad team, and it didn’t matter in that game, but I hated it because I knew that philosophy will haunt us against good teams. Winner and losers aren’t separated by much in the playoffs. You must maximize every opportunity. 

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No, the only “goal” is to bury their a$$ and score 100 TD’s.

 

You play to win the game.

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48 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

A teams goal should be to get to 24 points always. And until you hit that number you keep your foot on the FREAKING GAS 


also Gore is this year Tolbert.  I will never understand their insistence to feed him the ball. 
 

and the other before the game started part is WHO BUILDS a game plan that TGTs a WR that has zero continuity with your QB 10 times.  If they wanted Duke Williams to play a prominent role in the offense maybe they should have activated him before a ROAD WILDCARD PLAYOFF GAME 

That should be the goal, but look at the games this weekend:

22-19 Houston, 20-13 Tennessee (really 14-13 if you don't count the last play pick 6), 17-9 Seattle, and 26-20 Minnesota.   Every game was pretty defense oriented, with high powered offenses struggling to get points.  We were in one of those games and just came up a little short.

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2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

An elite D doesn't give up a 3rd Q shutout.  

And an offense capable of winning a super bowl (even being supported by a top 5 D) needs to be able to score 20 points against the 28th ranked D. 

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1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

This is the problem with everyone’s elite D dream around here though. It’s 2019, how many teams pitch shutouts these days? The offense needs to make plays at some point. Elite D’s in the sense you’re talking about don’t exist these days. Teams have too many playmakers on offense nowadays. The 85 Bears played a QB named Tony Eason in the Super Bowl, lets just say that Deshaun Watson is a bit more dynamic. The Vikings D just held the Saints to 20 points. By today’s standards that was a spectacular performance against the Saints. We would have lost with our measly 19 points. 


No one is talking about pitching a shutout.  
 

we are talking about a taking a 3 score lead Galway into the 3rd Q and blowing it.  
 

Big difference m.  Yeah the Offense was anemic since Dallas.  But any decent D doesn’t let a team it has on the canvas for a standing 8 count get back up and knock you out.

 

 

59 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

And an offense capable of winning a super bowl (even being supported by a top 5 D) needs to be able to score 20 points against the 28th ranked D. 


I agree.

 

But that D shut down the Bills when it mattered while their Offense was slapping that top 5 D

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4 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I told @GunnerBill this earlier in the week:

 

I don't think any of us are missing McDermott's strategy, we just think it's a bad one in today's NFL.

 

Today's NFL is built around the offense. The rules themselves favor the offense. In-game playcalling should never change unless it absolutely has to because either it's not working (clearly not the case based on our 1st half) or you've fallen seriously behind (which we didn't).

 

On top of that, it's probably a bad idea to veer away from things that have worked for your offense recently, and with that I'm talking about the no-huddle we'd been using with Daboll talking into Allen's headset about coverage and what he saw as long as he could.

 

I fear that McDermott isn't ideal for the new NFL. He's good enough that he'll keep his job I think. But his coaching mentality and approach is always going to leave open the risk of good opposing QBs doing exactly what Watson did yesterday. 

 

And by the way, I call total BS that 3 scores is the benchmark for McDermott. I think 3 scores with a half to go would be almost acceptable as a benchmark. 

 

Almost.

 

However, McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead. If he were, he wouldn't have run Gore up the middle on 1st down to end the 1st half with 30 seconds left on the Texans 23 up by 10. He would have allowed Allen to use those 30 seconds to get off 5 or 6 good plays to try to score a TD and THEN be up by 3 scores.

 

Instead, he coached like a weeny, wasted 2 downs, was almost bailed out by a great pass to the EZ that Duke couldn't come down with, we kick the FG and go into the half up by just 2 scores against one of the best QB/WR combos in the NFL.

 

Honestly the more I think about this game, the more it irritates me.

 

Allen made a bunch of mistakes and has a lot to work on this offseason. But the thing about Allen is he's not stubborn. He knows he made critical mistakes and you can expect he'll grind this offseason to fix them so he comes back better for 2020.

 

I feel like McDermott is too unaware and/or stubborn to realize that he has work to do with his gameday coaching and maybe needs to reevaluate his whole approach to the game.

 

I want a perennial winner year in and year out. McDermott's coaching doesn't set us up for that because he will always leave windows open for the other team to get back into it.

 

It was almost shameful the was after the game yesterday McDermott seemed to put the onus of the loss on Josh when he said something about Josh trying to do too much--which he did, but probably because McDermott's coaching approach forced him into it--rather than holding himself personally accountable.

 

Here's to hoping everyone gets better this offseason.

 

Great post.  One of the best that I've read in my time lurking and posting here.

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2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If our receivers toe tap and catch balls and our blockers block on QB runs and our DBs don't get spooked on 3rd and forever and Matt Milano wraps up and... and... and...

 

Are there mistakes on the coaching. Yes. But there are more mistakes in execution on the football field. And that is down to the players. I just think they are what they are. Teams that win Championships have 4 or 5 elite players as a rule. We have 1. Until some more of our younger guys - I am thinking Josh, Tremaine, Ed in particular get to that level then on the biggest stage there will be nights when no amount of coaching and culture will overcome. 

 

Yeah exactly. We can play the "if if if if..." "then then then then..." game in absolutely every way possible and all we want, but very simply, in that game the Bills had a 2 score lead before you can really even make an argument that our talent was exposed in any way.

 

And then the coach put Gore in there and called a run up the middle with 30 seconds left in the 1st half, wasted a down asking Josh to spike it on 2nd down... bringing the clock down to just 15 seconds.

 

You can argue talent on that 3rd down pass to Duke that he didn't come down with, but the simple fact is that Allen and the offense should have had 5 or 6 meaningful plays on offense rather than 1.

 

Tackling is a problem, obviously. But again, is that really talent or coaching? You think Milano and Edmunds and Oliver and Hyde and so on on Defense lack talent? Really??? It couldn't be that they're not getting enough fundamental reps during the week?

 

What's the excuse for not going for it with 4th and 4 on the 40 but going for it on 4th and 27 on the 42 and attributing it to wanting to be aggressive?

 

What's the excuse for losing the defensive aggressiveness of the 1st half in favor of what resembled the dreaded prevent defense all too often?

 

 

Sure, all of this is cherry picking as you insinuate. The problem is that coaches have the benefit of being on the sidelines and are especially responsible for what happens between the snaps and plays that are called when the ball is snapped, among other things.

 

Buffalo should upgrade their talent, but this team yesterday had the talent for that specific game. They may not have the 4 or 5 Elite players you say are necessary for Championship teams--then again, who were those 4 or 5 Elite players last year on the Patriots? Or the year before on the Eagles? Or the year before on the Falcons team that lost that 28 point lead?--but as far as Bills vs Texans, it seems pretty obvious the Bills had the talent to win, but the coaches bungled it up.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

And then the coach put Gore in there and called a run up the middle with 30 seconds left in the 1st half, wasted a down asking Josh to spike it on 2nd down... bringing the clock down to just 15 seconds.

 

 

 

No they didn't. As @Coach Tuesday rightly spotted Josh checked into that run. It was 100% not the call. He killed the call very clearly.

8 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

They may not have the 4 or 5 Elite players you say are necessary for Championship teams--then again, who were those 4 or 5 Elite players last year on the Patriots? Or the year before on the Eagles? Or the year before on the Falcons team that lost that 28 point lead?--but as far as Bills vs Texans, it seems pretty obvious the Bills had the talent to win, but the coaches bungled it up.

 

Patriots last year: Brady, Edelman, Gronk, Gilmore, McCourty. 

 

Eagles: Cox, Ertz, Kelce, Peters

 

Falcons: Ryan, Jones, Mack, Garrett

 

And those are literally top of the head without even thinking. Teams that win Superbowls have 4 or 5 guys in that bracket. 

Edited by GunnerBill
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We all said "just dont take a sack at this point on the field" and you'd think Daboll would have called a quick pass, handoff, anything but a full 7 step drop.

 

Same exact playcalling fail that Shanahan did in the superbowl Falcs vs NE, cost them the game as well.  Already in fg range, never give up that 3pts because its just as important as the 7.   Score is meaningless at that point, its all about possessions.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don’t think the goal is to get up by 3 scores unless they are TDs.  McDermott has said over and over they want 21 points

 

I think you might be missing that we understand the strategy, we just disagree

 

IMO, what McDermott says runs counter to how he coaches.  Nothing about the strategy at the end of the first half would lead one to believe that the goal was to get to 21 points.

 

His comments to Allen earlier in the year, to "play fearlessly"?  Did it seem like Allen had carte blanche to play fearlessly against NE, Pitt or Houston?

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4 hours ago, Process said:

The bills got out coached by bill obrien 

 

Let that sink in

 

Bill put the shield around Deshaun when our two best tacklers came free on a blitz, one of them blindside.  

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3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they didn't. As @Coach Tuesday rightly spotted Josh checked into that run. It was 100% not the call. He killed the call very clearly.

 

Exactly why we need to wait for the All 22...Allen literary lost his mind yesterday I think...it happens when you are in super stressful situations.  Not a knock, it's why people go through crazy training for war (not in any way comparing war and a football game except both are stressful...obviously one is literally life and death and the other isn't at all, but brains have a hard time telling sometime). It happened to LeBron in the finals...dude wouldn't post up a guard who would have scored on every single possession in crunch time.

 

He might have checked into runs on all those Gore runs for all we know. Singletary was struggling in pass pro, makes sense they would put Gore in to protect

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2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

This makes no sense to me. 

 

If McDermott wasn't playing for a 3 score lead to end the first half, he would have ran the clock down with runs then kicked the FG. Instead, he was aggressive by letting his 2nd-year QB throw pass attempts into the end zone.

 

If D'haquille doesn't drop a touchdown in the end zone, it's 17-0 Bills at halftime. How is that McDermott's fault?

 

Pass attempt, not attempts.

 

Duke not coming down with that ball was not McDermott's fault.

 

McDermott's fault was the fact that that was the ONLY meaningful play in that sequence when there should have been 4 or 5 more.

 

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

My problem with the coaching occurred in overtime when they forgot Singletary existed and decided to treat their offensive possession like a 2-minute drill even though there's virtually no game clock in overtime in the playoffs.

 

Absolutely. Another irritating aspect of coaching in this game.

 

2 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Up to that point I thought McDermott put the players in place to win the game and the players failed to execute.

 

If the Buffalo Bills offense were capable of scoring 100 points per game, they would. McDermott isn't telling them not to score. They're simply not good enough (yet?).

 

Disagree. It's easy to say this when you just look at the boxscore, but when you actually watch the game and see Frank Gore get 8 runs and Motor get 13, there's a problem. You'd think the coaches would figure out that those constant stuffed runs are problematic after one or two of them, but no, other than that one 14 yard scamper, Gore gained 8 yards on 7 carries.

 

Why the hell wasn't Singletary in there getting the ball? 13 carries... he wasn't tired.

 

I just sincerely hope McDermott finds a way to learn from this year and we see real growth in his gameday coaching next year.

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Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Exactly why we need to wait for the All 22...Allen literary lost his mind yesterday I think...it happens when you are in super stressful situations.  Not a knock, it's why people go through crazy training for war (not in any way comparing war and a football game except both are stressful...obviously one is literally life and death and the other isn't at all, but brains have a hard time telling sometime). It happened to LeBron in the finals...dude wouldn't post up a guard who would have scored on every single possession in crunch time.

 

He might have checked into runs on all those Gore runs for all we know. Singletary was struggling in pass pro, makes sense they would put Gore in to protect

 

I think that is exactly why Gore was on the field in that position. I don't think it was ever the intention for him to get the ball. Now I have no idea what they said to Josh during the time out about what he should do if he didn't like the look on the play he got. Maybe they said nothing. And if so that is on them. But Josh checked into that run. It was not called. 

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4 hours ago, Process said:

The bills got out coached by bill obrien 

 

Let that sink in

Not as bad as Belecheck did against Vrabel that clock stuff at the end of the game was awesome. I loved seeing him yelling at the refs.

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10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No they didn't. As @Coach Tuesday rightly spotted Josh checked into that run. It was 100% not the call. He killed the call very clearly.

 

Haven't watched it again.

 

Curious if it was and wonder if Allen or McDermott have been asked about it.

 

If Allen did that, it's mostly on him.

 

Except....

 

Why was he allowed to in that situation?

 

Why wouldn't Daboll tell him in the headset there should be no reason to kill the play? Seems like Allen would've been given a look and that if he saw or did not see that look, Daboll would tell him NOT to kill it in that scenario.

 

Still goes back to coaching.

 

 

 

As for the players you claim Elite, I think we have different understandings of that word.

 

Gronk? Last year? Elite? Really???

 

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46 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Gronk? Last year? Elite? Really???

 

 

Yes. Banged up - sure. But when he was out there he was still an elite contributor as a blocker and a receiver. If you pro-rata his numbers for a full season he was just short of a thousand yards. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think that is exactly why Gore was on the field in that position. I don't think it was ever the intention for him to get the ball. Now I have no idea what they said to Josh during the time out about what he should do if he didn't like the look on the play he got. Maybe they said nothing. And if so that is on them. But Josh checked into that run. It was not called. 

 

This makes me think of the Brown to Singletary TD pass against Dallas. Allen said after the game he was supposed to check out of that play if the defense was in zone. Maybe they had a trick play drawn up but the defensive look meant he was supposed to kill the play. Whatever the reason it was an awful play call.

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7 hours ago, HardyBoy said:

The only goal there is to get up by three scores, period, end of story. They were in perfect position to do that before the Watt sack and Allen got rattled after that, which happens and impacted everything that came after it...and they still almost won. Put away the pitchforks.

 

That was the biggest game of Josh Allen's life he'll learn from this. Shoot it took Lebron James getting posted up by JJ Barea and the Mavs to learn the lessons that allowed him to mentally excel in that level of stress and expectation.

Ummm GTFOMF with that bulls&$@! A good team should of kept their foot on the gas and not let up until it was 30 nothing . We all see how effective field goals are. I don't want to hear it was only playcalling. The conservative second half was crap. The calls and the play all the way around. It's why they cleaned their lockers out today.

Period.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, BeefCurtns said:

Ummm GTFOMF with that bulls&$@! A good team should of kept their foot on the gas and not let up until it was 30 nothing . We all see how effective field goals are. I don't want to hear it was only playcalling. The conservative second half was crap. The calls and the play all the way around. It's why they cleaned their lockers out today.

Period.

 

Yes, I'm not talking about football in general or coaching philosophy overall. At the start of the second half up 16-0, going up by 3 scores is going for the throat.  Doesn't matter if it's a fg or a touchdown there. Whatever is the most likely way to go up by three scores in that situation is the best strategy.

 

Also, the Falcons were only up 28-3, so not by 30...going for "the throat" cost them a Super Bowl without question.

Edited by HardyBoy

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7 hours ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said:

I'd trust the defense to hang on to a 16 point lead too.

 

But going into a prevent defense and giving up a 3rd and 18 late in the game is going way too far in that shell.

My big problem with this is when you are going to protect and lead and control a clock

 

RUN THE FRIGGEN BALL

 

Devin S. was having a good game.....and we kept throwing throwing throwing

 

There were times I agreed with it.....we took two end zone shots (that a larger receiver/better receiver probably catches)

 

But for the most part?   We stopped running the ball when we should have been converting first downs....chewing up clock......and forcing them into making mistakes because the time was running out on them.

 

Debol messed up

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8 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 
I think that comparing Jim Kelly to Josh Allen will lead you to the answer 

No the real reason is:

Let’s compare the offenses...

90s: Andre Reed, James Lofton, Don Beebe, Keith McKellar, Thurman Thomas, Kenny Davis

   Vs.  

2019  John Brown, Beasley,  McKenzie/Williams , Knox, Singletary, Gore 

 

if you put today’s roster in 1990 

Brown might by the WR3, Singletary would be RB2 and Knox might be the TE. Likely the rest of the guys wouldn’t make the team and none of them would start. So how many points would Josh put up with that lineup? 

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

My big problem with this is when you are going to protect and lead and control a clock

 

RUN THE FRIGGEN BALL

 

Devin S. was having a good game.....and we kept throwing throwing throwing

 

There were times I agreed with it.....we took two end zone shots (that a larger receiver/better receiver probably catches)

 

But for the most part?   We stopped running the ball when we should have been converting first downs....chewing up clock......and forcing them into making mistakes because the time was running out on them.

 

Debol messed up

 

So that's not conservative play calling then (not saying you are saying they went conservative). Again, I would argue that it was worth being aggressive to get a field goal asap out of halftime. Now that for sure could mean run, protect the ball and play field position, and that's what they really were doing until the sack by Watt caused the wheels to fall off.

 

I do think a field goal (three scores really, in the least risky way) is worth taking some risks that you extend the game some (passing instead of running like you mentioned), because up three scores is really tough to see them coming back from there.

 

That said, my understanding of football strategy is that of a casual fan, so I could be wrong on the best way to get there, but making it a three score game was insanely important. Houston not only stopped it from happening, but they kept it a one score game with the 2pt converstion...that sack by Watt was huge.

 

I'm arguing Dabol actually called a conservative pass with a half field read the throw it away, but Allen did hero ball (only way to explain Ford on Watt island)

Edited by HardyBoy

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