A Message of Calm from a Josh Allen Skeptic...

[Scott7975]

11 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

i never said anyone had it "figured out."

 

I said he's a game manager, he's playing timid, and im highly concerned that he's yet to have 300+ break out game that says, I've arrived. 

 

Im comparing him to his counterparts in todays era.   All those other Qbs have taken over games with their passing ability.

 

Im deeply concerned about Allen. 

 

I understand you're trying to prove a point, but if you're not concerned about Allen's play in the modern NFL, I really don't know what to say. 

 

I'm concerned that he is behind.  He doesn't have the background that most of these other QBs have though.  He certainly has the talent.  I think he just needs some time.

 

For comparison though... Russel Wilson passed for roughly 3300 yards in his second season.  Allen is on pace for roughly 3400.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

That is completely false.   Im tired of the excuses for Allen. 

 

Cole Beasley averages 3.5 yards of separation per play.   That is wide open in the NFL, its on par with the best in the league, and its always open. 

 

Smoke averages 2.5, which is about the league average in terms of separation. 

 

These guys are open, Allen simply isnt connecting. 

 

Why do you think Beasley is getting more aggravated by the week?  The plays are there to be made and these players are open. 

 

If Beasley was on New England he'd be pro bowl bound. 

 

 

 

That stat is per catch, not per play.  Big difference.  It is not always open.  Not saying Beasley has done a bad job or anything, but I would love for you to show me "always" and Josh isn't connecting.  Because if Josh wasn't connecting that stat wouldn't exist since its calculated at the time of completion.

[Scott7975]

9 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

laugh it up Buttercup....

 

The 5-foot-8 Texas native quickly turned out to be one of Dak Prescott’s favorite targets last season, and Beasly turned in career highs in targets (98), receptions (75), receiving yards (833), and tied his career high in touchdown receptions (five). As PFF notes, his slot catch rate was the highest among slot receivers in the NFL last season. The 78.9% he posted last season improved on his already impressive career catch-percentage of 72%.

In fact, Beasley stacks up to not just the elite slot receivers, but also the best wideouts in entire league.

By Football Outsiders’ DYAR metric (Defense-adjusted Yards Above Replacement), which assigns value to a wide receiver’s performance compared to replacement-level production, Beasley was the fifth most valuable receiver last season, ahead of players like Antonio Brown, A.J. Green, and DeSean Jackson. Similarly, he was also the fifth-ranked wideout in DVOA, which grades the receiver on a per-play basis and measures players on how much better they are than the league average at their position.

 

 

And that was Dak Prescott throwing him passes...not Tom Brady.

 

and guess what Beasley is on pace for this year.... 75 catches 741 yards 4-5 tds.  Pretty similar and that's with Josh Allen throwing him passes... not Dak Prescott.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Scott7975

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Have you seen the trows to Beasley??? 

 

I don't think Allen has hit him in stride all season.   Every damn pass Beasley is diving all over the ground to catch. 

 

It wasn't  "widely reported" Buffalo was looking for a Wr.  If the were, it would be a big monster who open when he's not and can out muscle Dbs to make catches from an inaccurate Allen. 

 

Its common knowledge our receivers have been called "the smurfs."

 

They are doing everything they can to make him better, but its obvious its not panning out very well. 

 

There is no signs of life out of Allen and he's a turnover machine. 

 

Im not ready to pull the plug, but im deeply concerned and discouraged with his play.  He's playing no where near franchise caliber, nor is he showing flashes of it. 

 

Allen says the right things, does the right things in the community, and no doubt works his ass off, but he is really, really far off anything resembling a franchise guy or superstar. 

It wasn't?

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/10/buffalo-bills-kicking-the-tires-on-wide-receivers-had-interest-in-emmanuel-sanders-report.html

"As the NFL trade deadline nears, another report has surfaced that the Buffalo Bills are looking to upgrade at the wide receiver position.

The latest report comes from Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer. In his latest article on the NFL trade deadline heating up, Breer mentioned Buffalo among the teams looking at available wide receivers."

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/10/24/20931004/nfl-trade-rumors-buffalo-bills-pursued-sanders-still-seeking-wide-receiver-emmanuel-sanders-interest

 

From Oct 24th, same source, different site. 

Another day, another report that the Buffalo Bills are seeking to upgrade their wide receiver corps via a trade. Late Tuesday, word came down that the Bills were “on the hunt” for a receiver and today they are “kicking the tires” on wide receivers, according to The MMQB’s Albert Breer.

-----------------------------

They might have been refereed to as "smurfs" by McD. However, Zay Jones is 6'2'' & Duke Williams is 6'3'' 225 lbs.

----------------------------

Dude, take a zanax or start heavily imbibing as you need to relax. The Eagles also beat the 7-1 Packers in Green Bay! BTW, Allen completion percentage previous to this Eagles game was at 63% and after is still 60.1%. 

 

This loss was not on the Buffalo Bills QB. He didn't allow 31 points and couldn't stop the Eagles from running 41 times for 218 yards, 3 TDs!!!

Allen didn't decide to call 20 run plays vs 34 passes. The QB didn't cause 8 Buffalo Bills penalties for 57 yards. 

 

My entire point in this thread was to comment on the Bills OC who is not doing a very good job with the offensive scheme. The entire focal point of the offense is placed on the young QB's shoulders to make plays from the start of the game and it clearly isn't working.  The Bills are averaging 8.5 penalties a game and mostly from the offense! The team keeps using time outs on offense and at times have taken a delay of game because the play isn't getting in quickly! Offensive play calling is very suspect! That's all on the Bills offensive coordinator!  

 

 

 

[Bring it]

This loss was not on Josh, I was impressed by his decision making. Yeah the fumble hurt, but it didn’t change the game as some have suggested! We lost in the trenches, plain and simple!! Everything else is a product of that.

Daboll tried to run the ball on the replacement DTs and it didn’t work! Seemed like there wasn’t a plan b or c after that!? Not sure, but it’s hard to run with no push from the o-line. Eagles are still a talented team and they came as if the season was on the line!

 

Still feel we are a playoff team but if Josh continues to develop that would be a much bigger thing IMO!!!

[dakrider]

6 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Have you seen the trows to Beasley??? 

 

I don't think Allen has hit him in stride all season.   Every damn pass Beasley is diving all over the ground to catch. 

 

It wasn't  "widely reported" Buffalo was looking for a Wr.  If the were, it would be a big monster who open when he's not and can out muscle Dbs to make catches from an inaccurate Allen. 

 

Its common knowledge our receivers have been called "the smurfs."

 

They are doing everything they can to make him better, but its obvious its not panning out very well. 

 

There is no signs of life out of Allen and he's a turnover machine. 

 

Im not ready to pull the plug, but im deeply concerned and discouraged with his play.  He's playing no where near franchise caliber, nor is he showing flashes of it. 

 

Allen says the right things, does the right things in the community, and no doubt works his ass off, but he is really, really far off anything resembling a franchise guy or superstar. 

Allen did have a poor 4th qtr on a team that played poorly all day.  He had played his best in the 4th qtr before this game.  But he has been more mindful of not making desperate throws that lead to interceptions.  

Matt Schaub had 460 yards and 75% completion rate and lost and Falcons only scored 2 touchdowns whereas Russell Wilson had 182 yards and 2 TD's in their win. 

You would probably be ecstatic if you were a Falcons fan right now.  

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, Nihilarian said:

It wasn't?

https://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/2019/10/buffalo-bills-kicking-the-tires-on-wide-receivers-had-interest-in-emmanuel-sanders-report.html

"As the NFL trade deadline nears, another report has surfaced that the Buffalo Bills are looking to upgrade at the wide receiver position.

The latest report comes from Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer. In his latest article on the NFL trade deadline heating up, Breer mentioned Buffalo among the teams looking at available wide receivers."

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2019/10/24/20931004/nfl-trade-rumors-buffalo-bills-pursued-sanders-still-seeking-wide-receiver-emmanuel-sanders-interest

 

From Oct 24th, same source, different site. 

Another day, another report that the Buffalo Bills are seeking to upgrade their wide receiver corps via a trade. Late Tuesday, word came down that the Bills were “on the hunt” for a receiver and today they are “kicking the tires” on wide receivers, according to The MMQB’s Albert Breer.

-----------------------------

They might have been refereed to as "smurfs" by McD. However, Zay Jones is 6'2'' & Duke Williams is 6'3'' 225 lbs.

----------------------------

Dude, take a zanax or start heavily imbibing as you need to relax. The Eagles also beat the 7-1 Packers in Green Bay! BTW, Allen completion percentage previous to this Eagles game was at 63% and after is still 60.1%. 

 

This loss was not on the Buffalo Bills QB. He didn't allow 31 points and couldn't stop the Eagles from running 41 times for 218 yards, 3 TDs!!!

Allen didn't decide to call 20 run plays vs 34 passes. The QB didn't cause 8 Buffalo Bills penalties for 57 yards. 

 

My entire point in this thread was to comment on the Bills OC who is not doing a very good job with the offensive scheme. The entire focal point of the offense is placed on the young QB's shoulders to make plays from the start of the game and it clearly isn't working.  The Bills are averaging 8.5 penalties a game and mostly from the offense! The team keeps using time outs on offense and at times have taken a delay of game because the play isn't getting in quickly! Offensive play calling is very suspect! That's all on the Bills offensive coordinator!  

 

 

 

Two people reporting we are looking isn't "widely reported."

 

Apparently your idea of widely reported, greatly differs from it actually is. 

 

They are called the smurfs because they are small, period.   I dont care about Duke who just came off the practice squad and is slow as molasses.

 

Im perfectly relaxed, im just not an idiot. I don't care who philly beat and where they beat them.   Allen has shown nothing this year and hasn't shown any promise of a real franchise Qb. 

 

Maybe you should lay off the xanax and beers and watch a damn game sober and awake.   You might understand just how ***** Allen is compared to everyone in his developmental bracket. 

[cgg716]

45 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Two people reporting we are looking isn't "widely reported."

 

Apparently your idea of widely reported, greatly differs from it actually is. 

 

They are called the smurfs because they are small, period.   I dont care about Duke who just came off the practice squad and is slow as molasses.

 

Im perfectly relaxed, im just not an idiot. I don't care who philly beat and where they beat them.   Allen has shown nothing this year and hasn't shown any promise of a real franchise Qb. 

 

Maybe you should lay off the xanax and beers and watch a damn game sober and awake.   You might understand just how ***** Allen is compared to everyone in his developmental bracket. 

some Allen criticism is fair, but everyone else in his bracket. Mayfield sucks, Darnold sucks, Rosen sucks 

[oldmanfan]

51 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Two people reporting we are looking isn't "widely reported."

 

Apparently your idea of widely reported, greatly differs from it actually is. 

 

They are called the smurfs because they are small, period.   I dont care about Duke who just came off the practice squad and is slow as molasses.

 

Im perfectly relaxed, im just not an idiot. I don't care who philly beat and where they beat them.   Allen has shown nothing this year and hasn't shown any promise of a real franchise Qb. 

 

Maybe you should lay off the xanax and beers and watch a damn game sober and awake.   You might understand just how ***** Allen is compared to everyone in his developmental bracket. 

The fourth quarter comebacks before yesterday, the highest QB rating in the fourth quarter before yesterday.  Those were not "nothing".

Edited October 28, 2019 by oldmanfan

[TwistofFate]

1 hour ago, cgg716 said:

some Allen criticism is fair, but everyone else in his bracket. Mayfield sucks, Darnold sucks, Rosen sucks 

Darnold and Rosen have excuses, Allen does not. 

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

The fourth quarter comebacks before yesterday, the highest QB rating in the fourth quarter before yesterday.  Those were not "nothing".

You cant rely on 4th quarter magic. 

 

The defense is what made that magic happen, in spite of all the turnovers our Qb had all game long. 

 

Allens inconsistency and wreckless security of the ball is the reason 4th quarter comebacks are necessary.

 

Rosen and Darnold have excuses, Allen does not. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by TwistofFate

[oldmanfan]

4 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Darnold and Rosen have excuses, Allen does not. 

You cant rely on 4th quarter magic. 

 

The defense is what made that magic happen, in spite of all the turnovers our Qb had all game long. 

 

Allens inconsistency and wreckless security of the ball is the reason 4th quarter comebacks are necessary.

Oh, of course the other guys have excuses.

 

You apparently didn’t read my OP.  His 4th quarter play tells us he can do it.  Free the reins and let him play the first 3 quarters like he does the fourth quarters.  Except for yesterday, where he and everybody else in the team stunk.

[cgg716]

12 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Darnold and Rosen have excuses, Allen does not. 

You cant rely on 4th quarter magic. 

 

The defense is what made that magic happen, in spite of all the turnovers our Qb had all game long. 

 

Allens inconsistency and wreckless security of the ball is the reason 4th quarter comebacks are necessary.

 

Rosen and Darnold have excuses, Allen does not. 

Darnold has Le’Veon Bell! And an oline on par with ours, and a supposed genius of a play caller. What’s his excuse?

[TwistofFate]

7 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Oh, of course the other guys have excuses.

 

You apparently didn’t read my OP.  His 4th quarter play tells us he can do it.  Free the reins and let him play the first 3 quarters like he does the fourth quarters.  Except for yesterday, where he and everybody else in the team stunk.

Sorry, man, ive lost all faith in Allen after yesterday. 

 

He has not put together one impressive performance this season.  He's had multiple weeks to do it against inferior secondaries. His Turnovers and lack of ball security is more than a fluke, its consistent and abundant. His lack of accuracy and ability to hit guys in stride is troubling and there are no signs of improvement.

 

Until he actually begins to show legitimate  steps of being a franchise Qb, im off the Allen bandwagon.

 

Maybe he make me a believer again, but as of now, im done with him. 

 

Imo Barkley gives us the best chance to win and would make this offense actually formidable. 

[5 Wide]

14 hours ago, DuckyBoys said:

cmon the wind knocked the football straight down  Today is not the day to go complaining about the long ball

 

It was thrown with the wind - had a tail wind.

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Two people reporting we are looking isn't "widely reported."

 

Apparently your idea of widely reported, greatly differs from it actually is. 

 

They are called the smurfs because they are small, period.   I dont care about Duke who just came off the practice squad and is slow as molasses.

 

Im perfectly relaxed, im just not an idiot. I don't care who philly beat and where they beat them.   Allen has shown nothing this year and hasn't shown any promise of a real franchise Qb. 

 

Maybe you should lay off the xanax and beers and watch a damn game sober and awake.   You might understand just how ***** Allen is compared to everyone in his developmental bracket. 

On the contrary, I think you are! 

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2019/10/23/report-bills-on-the-hunt-for-wr-at-trade-deadline/    Per a report from ESPN’s Dan Graziano &  Sports Illustrated’s Albert Breer.  Both are pretty big names and several different sites picked up on that story. Exactly how many links do you need to see before you comprehend the term widely reported? Google it? 

 

Actually, never mind! 

 

Clearly, there is no conversing here. Its just one opinion that matters.

 

 

[TwistofFate]

19 minutes ago, cgg716 said:

Darnold has Le’Veon Bell! And an oline on par with ours, and a supposed genius of a play caller. What’s his excuse?

Um,  his second head coach in two seasons?  Multiple offensive systems. More time injured than Allen.   A coach and regime that doesn't have a clue what going on. 

 

Rosen has been dumped to two different teams that have been a wreck.   Multiple coaching staffs.   Zero commitment to his development.

 

Same thing wirh Baker Matfield. 

 

Allen has had the most coaching, the most stability, and the most dedication to his development out of any of them. 

[oldmanfan]

23 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Sorry, man, ive lost all faith in Allen after yesterday. 

 

He has not put together one impressive performance this season.  He's had multiple weeks to do it against inferior secondaries. His Turnovers and lack of ball security is more than a fluke, its consistent and abundant. His lack of accuracy and ability to hit guys in stride is troubling and there are no signs of improvement.

 

Until he actually begins to show legitimate  steps of being a franchise Qb, im off the Allen bandwagon.

 

Maybe he make me a believer again, but as of now, im done with him. 

 

Imo Barkley gives us the best chance to win and would make this offense actually formidable. 

You saying his accuracy hasn't improved is silly.  He had a bad game yesterday.  The whole team did.  Barkley isn't starting anytime soon and you know it. Coming on here day after day saying it won't change that.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

4 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Um,  his second head coach in two seasons?  Multiple offensive systems. More time injured than Allen.   A coach and regime that doesn't have a clue what going on. 

 

Rosen has been dumped to two different teams that have been a wreck.   Multiple coaching staffs.   Zero commitment to his development.

 

Same thing wirh Baker Matfield. 

 

Allen has had the most coaching, the most stability, and the most dedication to his development out of any of them. 

 

Maybe the Bills do not know how to develop talent!   Which is why players succeed elsewhere.  

[TwistofFate]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

You saying his accuracy hasn't improved is silly.  He had a bad game yesterday.  The whole team did.  Barkley isn't starting anytime soon and you know it. Coming on here day after day saying it won't change that.

You saying day after day Allen needs to be unleashed won't change anything either.   Its your opinion, just as I have mine. 

 

The difference is you are going off of hope and im going off the reality in front of me. 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

You saying day after day Allen needs to be unleashed won't change anything either.   Its your opinion, just as I have mine. 

 

The difference is you are going off of hope and im going off the reality in front of me. 

I'm going off watching him and seeing him hit receivers consistently.  The last couple drives yesterday were the exception this season and not the rule.

[billsfan_34]

20 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Allen looked pretty good to me today, especially considering the conditions. Play calling and coaching decisions are what have me worried. 

Allen has been hampered by the horrible play calling. There are some throws he has to make. A few yesterday you have to stick in there or drop it in. Weather was bad but less than 50 percent completion is not getting it done. JA has had enough starts to take the damn handcuffs off. Time to really see where we stand with him.

Edited October 28, 2019 by billsfan_34

[Shaw66]

20 hours ago, BigDingus said:

So many of you know I haven't really been a believer in what I've seen from Allen. In my opinion, he's exactly what scouts said he was prior to the draft, and he's played exactly as he did through his whole football career.

However... after today's game there's been a lot of people piling on him and even more yelling "the sky is falling!" because of this loss, and I don't believe it's warranted.

Let me be clear, the concerns people have are legitimate, but the ones lashing out are doing so emotionally, otherwise this performance wouldn't have thrown them off so much. Yes, Allen's fumble was costly, but despite his numbers, he made better decisions for much of the game than he often has all year.

Yes, he threw under 50% accuracy, but those numbers are skewed from those last drives trying to play catch up. He still hasn't thrown for 300 yards, with today throwing for less than 200, but his 2 TD's were both very well done. They showed genuine awareness, a firm grasp of what the defense was giving him, and the passes were actual passes (unlike say the TD "pass" to McKenzie in the Giants game). And yes, I know Singletary did most of legwork after receiving the pass.

It's important when a QB shows he knows how to run your offense, but what really separates the good QB's from the rest of the pack is the ones who know what the opposing defense is giving them. Even though Allen had trouble with that today, he's had trouble with that every game, only this time he showed a legitimate grasp of his surroundings & an improved awareness.

His troubles today seemed more on the execution front than a failure on the mental front. In my opinion, that's an EXTREMELY promising development, more so than "look, I can pull a win out of my butt against a lousy team to escape with a victory!"

 

Missing open passes & being unable to connect downfield really hurt, but when you're actually seeing those guys & know where the play is developing, that's monumental in the growth of a young QB. 

 

I've been harping on his bad deep ball accuracy since last year, but I like that more & more he's actually seeing those guys.

 

Just as overall record doesn't tell the whole story, neither do his stats for this game. My opinion on this team hasn't really changed, it just further highlights our obvious weaknesses. But seeing Allen being more decisive, even if he was off target, makes me happy. 

Don't think I'm saying this was his best game, or that he played great, rather specific aspects of his game that consistently have me concerned about his long term viability looked better, and that matters even in a loss. 

Win or lose, don't lose sight of what matters most - Allen's development. I'd rather take a ton of losses now if it leads to long term success & a franchise QB later. If Allen ends the season looking like he's made legitimate mental strides & shows serious growth in his awareness & ability to read defenses, I wouldn't care if we missed the playoffs *THIS* year.

Ultimately we haven't looked like a team that could pose a threat to real good teams in the playoffs this year anyway. Just making it in & getting immediately bounced isn't what will define this team. But if Allen's football IQ improves to a point where it can match his physical gifts, he really will be a scary good presence for years to come.

.

.

.

.

To sum it up, I don't think there's any need to panic, I don't think we need to reach in a trade in hopes of maintaining a great regular season record, and I think Allen showed some positive growth even in this loss. Ideally, we'll not only bounce back next week, but Allen specifically will have his first great game of the year. If he can do that, it won't even matter if it's a weak opponent, I'll be genuinely impressed & seriously optimistic about his prospects

 

And yes, I highlighted in green the positives in case people just want skim through the good things lol

I don't agree with all of this, but the general point is correct. There's no need to panic.

 

Allen is in the middle of his second season learning to play QB in the NFL.   Personally, I think at this point he should be better than he's been playing, but learning and growth doesn't occur in a straight line.   Yesterday was another game where he made some mistakes and learned some things.   I'm confident he'll get there. 

[Nihilarian]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If we tried it for a game you would see my point. Josh would look like *****. It isn't who he is. In fact the first two drives yesterday we DID come out and try to establish the run like it was the 1970s and then ask Josh to make one throw per set of downs. He completed a check down to Smith and held the ball too long and took a bad sack on the other. 

Josh hasn't looked good in the first half of games for most of the season when the team comes out passing.

 

The second series first play was a six yard pass completion, so It wasn't like the 1970s. 

 

The Bills were basically dominated on both sides of the ball on the lines. The Bills run D had a bad day and the O line had a bad day. Although the Eagles looked to shut down Gore pretty good. Singletary looked somewhat better. 

 

From what I see Daboll gives up on the run to quickly at times and playing in a rainy, windy day asking the QB to throw 34 times was simply not the right thing to do. 

 

Its a 16 game season and games like this happen. I don't blame the QB who threw 2 TDs and no INTs. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Nihilarian said:

Josh hasn't looked good in the first half of games for most of the season when the team comes out passing.

 

The second series first play was a six yard pass completion, so It wasn't like the 1970s. 

 

The Bills were basically dominated on both sides of the ball on the lines. The Bills run D had a bad day and the O line had a bad day. Although the Eagles looked to shut down Gore pretty good. Singletary looked somewhat better. 

 

From what I see Daboll gives up on the run to quickly at times and playing in a rainy, windy day asking the QB to throw 34 times was simply not the right thing to do. 

 

Its a 16 game season and games like this happen. I don't blame the QB who threw 2 TDs and no INTs. 

 

Who blamed the QB? Certainly not me. 

[Nihilarian]

4 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You saying his accuracy hasn't improved is silly.  He had a bad game yesterday.  The whole team did.  Barkley isn't starting anytime soon and you know it. Coming on here day after day saying it won't change that.

Wasting your time with this one.