home improvement contractor nightmare

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I’m not sure this violates TBD off the wall policy. Mods please nuke it if it does.

 

So I’m not entirely looking for free legal advice. I have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow but there’s a lot of smart folks and life experiences here. So I’m curious who might have lived something like this.  

 

we did a kitchen Reno with the contractor.  There is a final payment due.  We agreed to pay the amount owed even thought he won’t addrress a bunch of damage, some clear overcharges and some items in the contract that were not done. After we agreed The contractor then revised the final offer to include us having to sign a waiver releasing him from any and all responsibility. He is threatening if we don’t sign he will sue us for all kinds of extra charges we have not heard of until now. 

 

Has as anyone ever dealt with this kind of thing? Reno was large enough to include electrical plumbing and a 8” beam. Amount owed is about 7% and total work does not qualify for any sort of lein as far as we can tell even though that was threatened, until we educated ourselves. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[KRC]

14 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not sure this violates TBD off the wall policy. Mods please nuke it if it does.

 

So I’m not entirely looking for free legal advice. I have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow but there’s a lot of smart folks and life experiences here. So I’m curious who might have lived something like this.  

 

we did a kitchen Reno with the contractor.  There is a final payment due.  We agreed to pay the amount owed even thought he won’t addrress a bunch of damage, some clear overcharges and some items in the contract that were not done. After we agreed The contractor then revised the final offer to include us having to sign a waiver releasing him from any and all responsibility. He is threatening if we don’t sign he will sue us for all kinds of extra charges we have not heard of until now. 

 

Has as anyone ever dealt with this kind of thing? Reno was large enough to include electrical plumbing and a 8” beam. Amount owed is about 7% and total work does not qualify for any sort of lein as far as we can tell even though that was threatened, until we educated ourselves. 

 

Been there. Done that. Take him to court.

[snafu]

25 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not sure this violates TBD off the wall policy. Mods please nuke it if it does.

 

So I’m not entirely looking for free legal advice. I have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow but there’s a lot of smart folks and life experiences here. So I’m curious who might have lived something like this.  

 

we did a kitchen Reno with the contractor.  There is a final payment due.  We agreed to pay the amount owed even thought he won’t addrress a bunch of damage, some clear overcharges and some items in the contract that were not done. After we agreed The contractor then revised the final offer to include us having to sign a waiver releasing him from any and all responsibility. He is threatening if we don’t sign he will sue us for all kinds of extra charges we have not heard of until now. 

 

Has as anyone ever dealt with this kind of thing? Reno was large enough to include electrical plumbing and a 8” beam. Amount owed is about 7% and total work does not qualify for any sort of lein as far as we can tell even though that was threatened, until we educated ourselves. 

 

Do you have a written, itemized, signed contract?  If so, let him sue you.

 

He can put a lien on your property for any amount he claims is owed, but he's got to be accurate about the amount owed.  In order to enforce the lien, he's got a strict time limit to file an action against you.  He could still sue you without having filed a lien. But in any event, you've obviously got no voice with this person now.  As lame, time consuming, and expensive as going to court is, there's some benefit to having someone who will hear both sides of the matter.

 

The only other thing you should concern yourself with it whether he's got any responsibility to sign off the work with the building department.  If so, you might not want to get that aspect tied up in your contractor dispute.

 

 

Edit:  you're in Maryland?  Rules might be different from what I know.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by snafu

[KD in CA]

He’s trying to intimidate you, don’t fall for it.

 

Tell him to ***** off and that you’re hiring another contractor to clean up his mess and you’ll be suing him for that cost.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

Been there. Done that. Take him to court.

 

I think that’s where we end up. Feels like everything we are getting hit with is just intended to intimidate us because we are ignorant to our rights, and theirs. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 minutes ago, snafu said:

 

Do you have a written, itemized, signed contract?  If so, let him sue you.

 

He can put a lien on your property for any amount he claims is owed, but he's got to be accurate about the amount owed.  In order to enforce the lien, he's got a strict time limit to file an action against you.  He could still sue you without having filed a lien. But in any event, you've obviously got no voice with this person now.  As lame, time consuming, and expensive as going to court is, there's some benefit to having someone who will hear both sides of the matter.

 

The only other thing you should concern yourself with it whether he's got any responsibility to sign off the work with the building department.  If so, you might not want to get that aspect tied up in your contractor dispute.

 

 

Edit:  you're in Maryland?  Rules might be different from what I know.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes written signed itemized contract. All these additional charges aren’t mentioned on the contract, weren’t presented to us during the project and either not approved or he claimed he would absorb. 

 

Yep Maryland 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I think that’s where we end up. Feels like everything we are getting hit with is just intended to intimidate us because we are ignorant to our rights, and theirs. 

Hold out for Judge Judy.  See what the BBB has on the contractor.  Even web based ratings, but those can be subjective.

[Happy]

Not sure if Montgomery County has a Consumer Affairs department where you can go to arbitration before going to court; might be a better (and cheaper) route to explore before having to lawyer up.  I've hired my share of contractors, and sounds like you got a dishonest one.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

11 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Not sure if Montgomery County has a Consumer Affairs department where you can go to arbitration before going to court; might be a better (and cheaper) route to explore before having to lawyer up.  I've hired my share of contractors, and sounds like you got a dishonest one.

 

Weve worked with loads of contractors. This is the first time we’ve had anything close to this type of experience. There is an arbitration clause in the contract. I think we are just getting bullied because the guy knows he made a mess. 

 

Im not into all this lawsuit stuff but it seems like we might need to. 

[teef]

38 minutes ago, KD in CA said:

He’s trying to intimidate you, don’t fall for it.

 

Tell him to ***** off and that you’re hiring another contractor to clean up his mess and you’ll be suing him for that cost.

this is exactly what's going on.   i'd do exactly this, and threaten to light up his online reviews.  those things have become shockingly important.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

This is why i do stuff myself. But Teef has it right. Tell him you know a LOT of people who'd be willing to give him a 1 star.

 

See how long his tone remains hostile.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

55 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

This is why i do stuff myself. But Teef has it right. Tell him you know a LOT of people who'd be willing to give him a 1 star.

 

See how long his tone remains hostile.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, teef said:

this is exactly what's going on.   i'd do exactly this, and threaten to light up his online reviews.  those things have become shockingly important.

 

In the liability waiver there is actually an item where I’d need to agree no online ‘disparaging’.

 

ive agreed to pay the amount so this waiver thing seems like a strong arm tactic because he knows he’s screwed a bunch of things up. 

 

I like this idea.

 

And I love doing home improvement stuff myself too. Just takes so darn long. But it seems to come out best because you actually care about doing it right.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

And I love doing home improvement stuff myself too. Just takes so darn long. But it seems to come out best because you actually care about doing it right.  

 

The only times I call a contractor is for electrical or tile work. I HATE laying tile.

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

The only times I call a contractor is for electrical or tile work. I HATE laying tile.

 

For me it’s spackling and sanding. Hate it passionately 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

For me it’s spackling and sanding. Hate it passionately 

 

We all have our things.

 

[KD in CA]

26 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 

 

In the liability waiver there is actually an item where I’d need to agree no online ‘disparaging’.

 

ive agreed to pay the amount so this waiver thing seems like a strong arm tactic because he knows he’s screwed a bunch of things up. 

 

I like this idea.

 

And I love doing home improvement stuff myself too. Just takes so darn long. But it seems to come out best because you actually care about doing it right.  

 

And obviously, don’t sign any kind of waiver at any point, even if you reach an accommodation.

[Foxx]

being a contractor, i can honestly say we hate guys like this.

 

best of luck in getting it straightened out in your favor. i just hope that your kitchen remodel is structurally sound and done according to generally accepted construction norms.

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by Foxx

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, Foxx said:

being a contractor, i can honestly say we hate guys like this.

 

best of luck in getting it straightened out in your favor. i just hope that your kitchen remodel is structurally sound and done according to generally accepted construction norms.

 

 

Thanks man. Most contractors we’ve dealt with have ranged from good to outright awesome. 

 

Most stuff seems ok, but when start seeing patterns, it makes you question everything. 

 

My my wife and I are still reflecting hard to see how we missed on this one. 

[Boca BIlls]

If you blow his car up I bet he stops wanting your money. 

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

https://www.peoples-law.org/home-improvement-resolving-disputes-contractors

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, ICanSleepWhenI'mDead said:

https://www.peoples-law.org/home-improvement-resolving-disputes-contractors

 

Thank you, this is excellent. 

[KRC]

18 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

I think that’s where we end up. Feels like everything we are getting hit with is just intended to intimidate us because we are ignorant to our rights, and theirs. 

 

Same happened to me. Lots of threats. I wouldn't put up with it. The problem is that outside of a moral victory, you are not going to get much else out of it. Depending on the laws in your area and the amount, you may only be able to place a levy and not a lien. Therefore, you will have to constantly renew it and will probably never see it.

 

My contractor was also a politician (his wife was also running for office). That added a few wrinkles.

 

He never paid, but I won in other ways. ?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

32 minutes ago, KRC said:

 

Same happened to me. Lots of threats. I wouldn't put up with it. The problem is that outside of a moral victory, you are not going to get much else out of it. Depending on the laws in your area and the amount, you may only be able to place a levy and not a lien. Therefore, you will have to constantly renew it and will probably never see it.

 

My contractor was also a politician (his wife was also running for office). That added a few wrinkles.

 

He never paid, but I won in other ways. ?

 

I’m a Bills fan - I’m all about moral victories.

 

im not interested in money. I’ve agreed to pay the final amount, I just do not want to sign all our rights away and don’t want to agree to release the liability.  There was a lot of electrical, plumbing and structural changes.  If something big happens from a defect we need some level of protection . 

 

Apparently the act of fabricating a bunch of additional charges not in the contract or otherwise discussed and threatening to sue for them if we don’t sign a release waiver in Maryland May be considered felony extortion. 

 

Glad you won. Even moral victories feel good, for moral people ? 

[JohnC]

21 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I’m not sure this violates TBD off the wall policy. Mods please nuke it if it does.

 

So I’m not entirely looking for free legal advice. I have a meeting with an attorney tomorrow but there’s a lot of smart folks and life experiences here. So I’m curious who might have lived something like this.  

 

we did a kitchen Reno with the contractor.  There is a final payment due.  We agreed to pay the amount owed even thought he won’t addrress a bunch of damage, some clear overcharges and some items in the contract that were not done. After we agreed The contractor then revised the final offer to include us having to sign a waiver releasing him from any and all responsibility. He is threatening if we don’t sign he will sue us for all kinds of extra charges we have not heard of until now. 

 

Has as anyone ever dealt with this kind of thing? Reno was large enough to include electrical plumbing and a 8” beam. Amount owed is about 7% and total work does not qualify for any sort of lein as far as we can tell even though that was threatened, until we educated ourselves. 

I live in Maryland and also had contractor problem. The contractor refused to complete the job that was 99% finished despite the fact that I paid him. (My mistake in doing so.) There is a State Agency in Maryland that deals with construction complaints. Tell your conniving contractor that you are going to report him to this State Agency and have his bonding suspended resulting in him not being able to work. I'm sure the contractor will change his hardnosed attitude. In my case after messing around for months and not being able to get a response from the contractor he sent an employee to my house to finish the job on the same day that he was notified by the agency that his business/bonding was in jeopardy. 

 

If you don't know how to get in touch with the appropriate state agency email the county government dealing with business complaints. They will give you the contact information for the state agency. I'm confident that when you tell the problematic contractor that you will get his bonding suspended he will be more receptive to you. Good luck. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by JohnC

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

On 10/10/2019 at 9:59 AM, JohnC said:

I live in Maryland and also had contractor problem. The contractor refused to complete the job that was 99% finished despite the fact that I paid him. (My mistake in doing so.) There is a State Agency in Maryland that deals with construction complaints. Tell your conniving contractor that you are going to report him to this State Agency and have his bonding suspended resulting in him not being able to work. I'm sure the contractor will change his hardnosed attitude. In my case after messing around for months and not being able to get a response from the contractor he sent an employee to my house to finish the job on the same day that he was notified by the agency that his business/bonding was in jeopardy. 

 

If you don't know how to get in touch with the appropriate state agency email the county government dealing with business complaints. They will give you the contact information for the state agency. I'm confident that when you tell the problematic contractor that you will get his bonding suspended he will be more receptive to you. Good luck. 

...good advice John...they may have other complaints about the contractor....we are commercial electrical contractors......in most cases, we issue a proposed change order requiring customer signature BEFORE work can commence....if the work needs to be done immediately while the proposed change order is being prepared, we will operate on a verbal to proceed BUT all work tickets are to be signed DAILY as an acknowledgment.....lawsuit versus ADT back in the '90's: all unsigned work tickets relative the change orders were thrown out by the Court....all SIGNED work tickets were allowed....ADT claimed their field rep was unauthorized to sign but the Court said "that's your problem".....here are some suggestions for residential work: (1) get EVERYTHING in writing, especially an explicit "scope of work" (2) make sure there is a clause regarding change orders, specifically that a written proposal is necessary before the work commences and must be signed by BOTH parties(gives you time to examine the original scope to see if the proposed change is outside the original scope) (3) be leery of a contractor who wants a substantial down payment "up front"; it indicates their financial wherewithal and ability to carry a job ..he does not have credit with material suppliers which is an instant red flag; (3) make sure your contract includes a "retainage clause", albeit 5% or 10% which you can hold in abeyance for any "punch list items" that need to be completed; (4) always, ALWAYS request a Certificate of Insurance before signing ANY initial contract; if it is not provided, chances are it has lapsed or contractor is uninsured; contractor insurance gives you some legal recourse for a claim if necessary......hope this helps all.........

[GG]

On 10/9/2019 at 12:41 PM, KRC said:

 

Been there. Done that. Take him to court.

 

So, how's the deck?

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

...good advice John...they may have other complaints about the contractor....we are commercial electrical contractors......in most cases, we issue a proposed change order requiring customer signature BEFORE work can commence....if the work needs to be done immediately while the proposed change order is being prepared, we will operate on a verbal to proceed BUT all work tickets are to be signed DAILY as an acknowledgment.....lawsuit versus ADT back in the '90's: all unsigned work tickets relative the change orders were thrown out by the Court....all SIGNED work tickets were allowed....ADT claimed their field rep was unauthorized to sign but the Court said "that's your problem".....here are some suggestions for residential work: (1) get EVERYTHING in writing, especially an explicit "scope of work" (2) make sure there is a clause regarding change orders, specifically that a written proposal is necessary before the work commences and must be signed by BOTH parties(gives you time to examine the original scope to see if the proposed change is outside the original scope) (3) be leery of a contractor who wants a substantial down payment "up front"; it indicates their financial wherewithal and ability to carry a job ..he does not have credit with material suppliers which is an instant red flag; (3) make sure your contract includes a "retainage clause", albeit 5% or 10% which you can hold in abeyance for any "punch list items" that need to be completed; (4) always, ALWAYS request a Certificate of Insurance before signing ANY initial contract; if it is not provided, chances are it has lapsed or contractor is uninsured; contractor insurance gives you some legal recourse for a claim if necessary......hope this helps all.........

Great advice. In any major project it is not surprising that unexpected complications can arise that will result in an increase of costs. That's the nature of the work when dealing with remodeling and rehabs. But that isn't the heart of the issue. Being reputable and ethical is the real issue. In my case the priick that I was dealing with felt that he didn't have to waste his time to complete the job because he already got payed. What this fool didn't recognize is that because he acted in a disreputable manner he lost nearly $100,000 worth of work because I wouldn't recommend him to people who asked about him.

 

Contractors who regularly work make a lot of money. And they deserve it. I don't understand the need to squeeze the customer at the expense of a loss of a customer for future work and references. I recently had bathroom work done where there was a complication in leveling the floor in order to properly seat the toilet. The person who was doing the work for me didn't ask for more money although it was merited. I insisted in paying more for the project because it was the right thing to do. It shouldn't be surprising that even when he is busy when I call for his services he immediately responds.   

[KRC]

31 minutes ago, GG said:

 

So, how's the deck?

 

Super Contractor was good quality entertainment, for everyone else but myself and Mrs. KRC. ?

[Augie]

On 10/9/2019 at 12:52 PM, KD in CA said:

He’s trying to intimidate you, don’t fall for it.

 

Tell him to ***** off and that you’re hiring another contractor to clean up his mess and you’ll be suing him for that cost.

 

Just be sure you have a good attorney, and be sure their advice/plan makes sense to you. Lots of possibilities between here and court. I hope it doesn’t have to get to that. 

 

Just know this: once he has the money you have given up your leverage. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Great advice. In any major project it is not surprising that unexpected complications can arise that will result in an increase of costs. That's the nature of the work when dealing with remodeling and rehabs. But that isn't the heart of the issue. Being reputable and ethical is the real issue. In my case the priick that I was dealing with felt that he didn't have to waste his time to complete the job because he already got payed. What this fool didn't recognize is that because he acted in a disreputable manner he lost nearly $100,000 worth of work because I wouldn't recommend him to people who asked about him.

 

Contractors who regularly work make a lot of money. And they deserve it. I don't understand the need to squeeze the customer at the expense of a loss of a customer for future work and references. I recently had bathroom work done where there was a complication in leveling the floor in order to properly seat the toilet. The person who was doing the work for me didn't ask for more money although it was merited. I insisted in paying more for the project because it was the right thing to do. It shouldn't be surprising that even when he is busy when I call for his services he immediately responds.   

 

.....reputable contractor BUT also a reputable customer in you offering......we are strictly commercial contractors, but never nickle and dime our valued customers.....NUMEROUS instances where we take care of something at no charge.....we're celebrating our 50th year in business come 2020 and are the 2nd largest in our trade for Roch-Cha-Cha....operating in four states.......

[Marv's Neighbor]

Do you have any CONNECTIONS?  If so, just have him whacked!

[Wnybricky]

Common practice amongst contractors is to low bid and change order people to death. As a contractor something major would have to happen for me to charge extra and even then it needs to be discussed. And never sign off on liability. My business has a 5 star google rating. That is very important to the growth of my company. I would look into any place they look to get work. Ie angies list , home advisor or google. I also usually ask for a downpayment. People forget that there is as many flighty people as there is contractors. 

[Foxx]

on the nightly news a couple of days ago, they had a story on about a contractor (i won't mention the contractor but they are well known) who had apparently bilked homeowners in Brighton to the tune of $500k. smh, did the homeowners just fall off the turnip truck?