Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: AHH BBFS!!!!! I've been a fan since the 70s, They've been great some years, bad others, and mediocre others. What franchise can you not say that about? NEWS FLASH: How YOU personally feel about the games has nothing to do with the outcome! Just because for most of the last couple decades we've been bad, and you've just become a fan in that time, DOES NOT mean that they have to prove anything to you to be a good team. LOGICALLY!!!! Um, what's your point? If they win, does that prove they're a good team? Even if they win on the road by 1 point after 4 TO? I mean, they don't have to prove it to me but it's quite well documented what happens the overwhelming majority of the time when a team has a -4 TO ratio: they lose. So if they want to be a good football team, they need to clean up a bunch of stuff, can we agree on that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Jobot said: Only thing that I would criticize is coming out week 1 on the road with a pass-heavy attack seemed overly optimistic, risky, and unnecessary to secure a win. It nearly cost us the game if not for the Jets poor kicking and the Moseley injury. But didn't everyone complain that McDermott was too conservative? Relying too much on the run? You can't please this fan base. Edited September 9, 2019 by PromoTheRobot 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: But didn't everyone complain that McDermott was to conservative? Relying too much on the run? You can't please this fan base. Again...all these complaints are tangential. They're all rooted in one of two ACTUAL complaints: 1) Mahomes 2) Allen Draft Pick 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Am I missing something here? It was our home opener, on the road, against a division rival, with a pretty good defense, that has played us tough over the last few years. They played well outside of some mistakes in the first half, particularly when they needed to, and WON. Why does, what should be a pretty positive day on the Monday after a big win, have such a tone of doom and gloom from so many posters? It wouldn't be TBD any other way man. The huge momentum building block win going into week 2 means nothing. Edited September 9, 2019 by Real McCoy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey152 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: I'm not a hater by any means, and I really appreciate the OP putting this together as it highlights positives that the Bills can and hopefully will build upon. Some of Allen's INT's were not his fault. The fumble/sack was. He also got lucky. The Jets dropped a pick right before our first FG/points of the game. All in all, the 1st half was as bad as it was. Driving down the field to turn it over is BAD. Good teams (Pats, Saints, Seattle, etc) don't do this. It was a positive that we can move the ball, but we need to finish drives. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand-grenades as the saying goes. Yes, he "just missed" throwing a pick...but he also "just missed" a touchdown on that play, too. Was a great break by the defender, but if that ball had a little more velocity, it's 6. It's not like it was a horrible decision, he just didn't set his feet because he thought his arm could get it there. Conversely, the Bills tipped several passes and Darnold threw a few that could have been picked, including the 2 pt conversion. Results-based analysis only gets you so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Just now, Jobot said: I think there's a difference between 'doom and gloom' and saying that we were 'fortunate' to have won. The Bills clearly looked the better team all day, but their game plan left them susceptible to week-1 mistakes, which is exactly what we saw. Don't forget, our offense is made up of probably 75% new players. So we still had to scramble to get the win in the 4th. Without some very fortunate happenstances, this comeback wouldn't have been possible, and we'd be kicking ourselves. We just differ here. IMO, not only was I fine with the game plan, I think it was the RIGHT game plan. They moved the ball. In the 1st half, there were turnovers that were the result of bad bounces, there were turnovers that were the result of bad execution, and there were penalties that all derailed possible scoring drives. Any of them could have happened with a more conservative game plan. They did not turn the ball over and make those same mistakes and penalties in the second half and they won the game. Why do people choose to believe what happened in the first half defines this team or the coaching, rather than what happened in the second half? The defense played great the whole game. I do not discount the turnovers or penalties on the part of the offense; however, looking past that in a more complex analysis: the offense moved the ball well all game, Allen made good decisions for the most part, was accurate with some very impressive throws, made some terrific calls at the line in reading the defense, and led them to a fourth quarter comeback. It was his twelfth game in the NFL and he has shown real improvement. IMHO, I am fine with letting him air it out when game planning for a specific opponent calls for it. I believe it did yesterday. Maybe it wasn't that we were fortunate to come away with a win as much as the Jets were fortunate we din't blow them out? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, DCofNC said: No, its that what you said is not hownthe real world works. You don't get to choose what you like, either you score or you don't. Moving the balls for 600 yards is nothing if you don't score. Call it "flukie" or whatever you want, but they coughed up the ball and couldn't finish. They managed 17 points for a whole game. That is what LOSES most games. Just because the Jets sucked more, doesn't mean you have a "great offense". 29 minutes ago, DCofNC said: They managed 17 points for a whole game. That is what LOSES most games. Just The Packers, a consensus SB contender put up 10 points in what was an equally hard to watch game. Its the beginning of the season where O generally is behind D. Edited September 9, 2019 by Buffalo Boy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: Again...all these complaints are tangential. They're all rooted in one of two ACTUAL complaints: 1) Mahomes 2) Allen Draft Pick With all respect, Joe....Bad take here. I watched and charted 80% of our plays last year (caveat I'm self-taught, so I'm not the best) and I have to say Daboll's play choices puzzled me at times. I felt he got too cute and was like "no one will expect us to run this play on 3rd and 8 so that's what I'll call". That sort of thing works when you've got an O that's a well-oiled machine. With a rookie QB and scraps at OL not so much. I'd think it's just me, but several guys here who really know their football, who actually coach and scout, have said similar at times. I'd rather wait until I have the all-22 and can objectively go through each play, but I found Daboll's play calling very puzzling. I can see why it makes abstract sense at a high level, but you can't stay at that level for practical good game calling with the actual personnel you've got on the field, both sides. And I and several others with that view have no lasting bone about Mahomes or the Allen pick. In fact I think the people who look at Mahomes and say "could have been ours" are cray-cray - Reid has his flaws as a post season coach but he's a marvelous play caller with a track record of developing QB to maximize their potential. The strongest probability is that Mahomes would not look like that if he'd come here and been handed over to Dennison and whoever that was as our QB "coach". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Excellent post @mjt328. The Bills are going to have a lot of good things to look at on film this week, and should also be able to identify where some things went wrong. But the bottom line is that there is much to be optimistic about and the ongoing media narrative of "Josh had an awful first half" is way overblown. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Mikey152 said: Yes, he "just missed" throwing a pick...but he also "just missed" a touchdown on that play, too. Was a great break by the defender, but if that ball had a little more velocity, it's 6. It's not like it was a horrible decision, he just didn't set his feet because he thought his arm could get it there. Conversely, the Bills tipped several passes and Darnold threw a few that could have been picked, including the 2 pt conversion. Results-based analysis only gets you so far. The defender was camped in front of the WR. I don't think anyone believes that was a "just missed" TD. It was another "bad" throw by Allen. This isn't Rodgers, Brees, etc. who you can say, "oh, random misplaced throw." The 2 point conversion was a pinpoint throw by Darnold, not sure how that was luck. That was a 5 year ago Big Ben type of play by Darnold. The Bills were a HOT MESS in the 1st half. There is no way to sugarcoat it with "well, we almost didn't turn the ball over." The halftime adjustments were fantastic, but the 1st half was really, really bad. Including the play-call of handing it off in the endzone against the Jets D. That should e a QB sneak to get it out of the danger zone there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: The strongest probability is that Mahomes would not look like that if he'd come here and been handed over to Dennison and whoever that was as our QB "coach". We agree on that. Good day, sir. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McClappy Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: With all respect, Joe....Bad take here. I watched and charted 80% of our plays last year (caveat I'm self-taught, so I'm not the best) and I have to say Daboll's play choices puzzled me at times. I felt he got too cute and was like "no one will expect us to run this play on 3rd and 8 so that's what I'll call". That sort of thing works when you've got an O that's a well-oiled machine. With a rookie QB and scraps at OL not so much. I'd think it's just me, but several guys here who really know their football, who actually coach and scout, have said similar at times. I'd rather wait until I have the all-22 and can objectively go through each play, but I found Daboll's play calling very puzzling. I can see why it makes abstract sense at a high level, but you can't stay at that level for practical good game calling with the actual personnel you've got on the field, both sides. And I and several others with that view have no lasting bone about Mahomes or the Allen pick. In fact I think the people who look at Mahomes and say "could have been ours" are cray-cray - Reid has his flaws as a post season coach but he's a marvelous play caller with a track record of developing QB to maximize their potential. The strongest probability is that Mahomes would not look like that if he'd come here and been handed over to Dennison and whoever that was as our QB "coach". Fair enough point. The All-22 is going to show you WR's open all over the field consistently for the Bills (for once) indicating a pass heavy offense should be called. Beasley alone could have been passed to every single down, he was open every play. The Jets secondary is not very good at all from what I saw yesterday. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: The Packers, a consensus SB contender put up 10 points and one is an equally hard to watch game. Its the beginning of the season where O generally is behind D. The Bears D is the best in the NFL. The Jets have no secondary, and looked like the Bears D in the first half. Plenty of O around the NFL yesterday. Ravens dropped 59, Tenn scored 43 on a good D, LA put up 30, PHL and Washington featured almost no D, DAL droped 35, even ARI and DET put up 27 each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: The 2 point conversion was a pinpoint throw by Darnold, not sure how that was luck It was a desperation heave and yes, he saw Bell back there but to call that "pinpoint" is hilarious. Darnold and Bell made a nice backyard play but let's not go overboard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, Real McCoy said: Fair enough point. The All-22 is going to show you WR's open all over the field consistently for the Bills (for once) indicating a pass heavy offense should be called. Beasley alone could have been passed to every single down, he was open every play. The Jets secondary is not very good at all from what I saw yesterday. this is going to be very helpful going forward. If Singletary can run the way he did, and Foster gets back, we have a very hard O to defend on paper. Underneath routes, long bombs, and running game all available. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 GOOD TEAMS OVERCOME OBSTACLES 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: The Bills were a HOT MESS in the 1st half. No, they were not. There was a LOT of good mixed in with some bad execution, bad penalties, and bad luck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, eball said: It was a desperation heave and yes, he saw Bell back there but to call that "pinpoint" is hilarious. Darnold and Bell made a nice backyard play but let's not go overboard. looked right on the money to me. Right over the DB. If that's not "pinpoint," then what is. Just now, billsfan1959 said: No, they were not. There was a LOT of good mixed in with some bad execution, bad penalties, and bad luck. ask any NFL coach what a pick 6 and safety in the 1st half with 0 points are. A hot mess might be the kindest think you'd hear them call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 Just now, billsfan1959 said: No, they were not. There was a LOT of good mixed in with some bad execution, bad penalties, and bad luck. ITS LIKE PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THE INTERNET EXISTS TO LOOK AT THE STATS, oops Time pf possession and passing yards ALL dominated by Buffalo up until the safety 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 1 minute ago, RyanC883 said: looked right on the money to me. Right over the DB. If that's not "pinpoint," then what is. ask any NFL coach what a pick 6 and safety in the 1st half with 0 points are. A hot mess might be the kindest think you'd hear them call it. How'd that incoming second half meltdown prediction work out for you? Are you working on being negative about the win here? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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