"Slow down, it's only preseason"

[Logic]

This year, like many years in the past two decades, there are a lot of Bills fans saying "Slow down, it's only preseason. It doesn't mean anything yet".

There's one key difference, though: Most years, we're saying it because the Bills look sloppy, disjointed, and ineffective. We're saying it to calm our anxieties and talk ourselves off the ledge, because the Bills look like a 5-win football team. This year? Well...this year we're saying it because the Bills look better than their opponents on both offense and defense. In the past, we've been trying to talk ourselves into more than 5 wins. "It's only preseason, they'll figure it out". This year, we're trying to talk ourselves out of a breakout, 10-win type season. "It's only preseason, it's all vanilla schemes, it doesn't matter".

See, here's the thing about that constantly uttered preseason phrase "it's only preseason, it doesn't matter": If we're talking about the SCOREBOARD, that's true. If we're talking about EXECUTION, it's a filthy lie. Sure, the opposing defense is running vanilla plays out of a limited playbook. All the more reason you want your offense to easily be able to march it down field against them. Sure, the opposing offense is trying not to tip their hand and is calling a limited script of plays. All the more reason you want your defense to easily shut them down and keep points off the board.

Score and schemes may not matter in preseason, but EXECUTION MATTERS. If your offensive linemen hold their blocks, it matters. If your receivers beat the men across from them, get open, and catch the ball, it matters. If your defense plays as a unit, shoots gaps, and keeps the score low, it matters. All things being equal, you have to look SOME SORT OF WAY in preseason, right? So wouldn't you rather that your team dominate the opponent? Put a different way: How would you all feel right now if Allen and the Bills stunk up the joint the past few weeks? Well, you'd still be saying "It's only preseason", but you'd be saying it for a very different reason. 

Look, we all know: it is a good idea to temper expectations in the preseason for the aforementioned reasons. Nevertheless: the Bills are executing their assignments more effectively than their opponents, their rookie quarterback looks vastly improved, and their defense looks absolutely stifling. When I flash back to all of the preseason ineffectiveness of recent years, I notice that it almost always carried over into the regular season. If you can't execute against vanilla schemes, you DAMN sure can't execute when the lights come on for real. So maybe, just maybe, the Bills preseason effectiveness this year will carry into the regular season. Maybe they'll keep out-executing opponents. The score and schemes may not matter, but execution matters.

Two more weeks and then we all get to see the Bills in real, important NFL regular season action. Until then, I'll keep trying to remind myself: "Slow down, it's only preseason".

Edited August 17, 2019 by Logic

[Augie]

In the regular season, it’s all about wins and losses. It doesn’t matter what it looks like. Win ugly, and I’m happy. In preseason, winning doesn’t matter, it’s all about the eye test. You know it when you see it. 

 

I’m liking what I’m seeing so far. 

[Ol Dirty B]

Of course someone who would come up with the username logic would write that.

 

 

I'll just tell you what you want to hear, you're correct. This is clearly no thread for logic.

[Logic]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

Of course someone who would come up with the username logic would write that.

 

 

I'll just tell you what you want to hear, you're correct. This is clearly no thread for logic.

I would absolutely LOVE to see you logically explain why what I said is illogical. Love it.

Please enlighten me.

[Ralonzo]

Let me add on to this with regard to coaching.

 

There's been numerous plays in the pre-season where you've seen the train running down the tracks... plays where you knew a frustrated player was going to do something stupid. A late hit, an OB hit, slapping the QB, crap after the whistle. Not only am I not seeing that, I'm hearing the on-field mics showing the Bills players are saying "lay off" and don't do the stupid thing that has cost this team for I don't know how many years. It's great, it's a throwback to the Levy days of "don't be dumb."

 

That's what I've been waiting to see in the coaching for sooooo long. Penalties are gonna happen, fine. But the selfish and undisciplined ones that are avoidable, I want to at least see an effort to avoid them. Refs can botch calls and that's fine (see Shaq RtP), but the "play hard and play smart" is a hallmark of good teams.

[Ol Dirty B]

2 minutes ago, Logic said:

I would absolutely LOVE to see you logically explain why what I said is illogical. Love it.

Please enlighten me.

 

Well for starters, neither team has played their starting QB or RB. Indy didn't play TY Hilton. Carolina didn't play Kuechly on defense. You can't take anything away from the games.

 

Consider yourself enlightened. 

[Rc2catch]

Jacoby brissett and Kyle Allen are not much to get confident about. And I’m pretty concerned about Swain on the offensive line. I have zero doubts they’re building a good team, problem I see is I don’t think it’s as far along as some fans think, which is going to cause a lot of anger and drama later on this season if we’re not in the playoff hunt the whole season 

[MJS]

We can only hope.

[Ol Dirty B]

4 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Let me add on to this with regard to coaching.

 

There's been numerous plays in the pre-season where you've seen the train running down the tracks... plays where you knew a frustrated player was going to do something stupid. A late hit, an OB hit, slapping the QB, crap after the whistle. Not only am I not seeing that, I'm hearing the on-field mics showing the Bills players are saying "lay off" and don't do the stupid thing that has cost this team for I don't know how many years. It's great, it's a throwback to the Levy days of "don't be dumb."

 

That's what I've been waiting to see in the coaching for sooooo long. Penalties are gonna happen, fine. But the selfish and undisciplined ones that are avoidable, I want to at least see an effort to avoid them. Refs can botch calls and that's fine (see Shaq RtP), but the "play hard and play smart" is a hallmark of good teams.

 

You realize that new england is routinely one of the most penalized teams.

 

But you can probably go join the OP in making points that contradict facts.

[CNY315]

hear hear

[Ol Dirty B]

6 minutes ago, Logic said:

I would absolutely LOVE to see you logically explain why what I said is illogical. Love it.

Please enlighten me.

Where you at? 

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Let me add on to this with regard to coaching.

 

There's been numerous plays in the pre-season where you've seen the train running down the tracks... plays where you knew a frustrated player was going to do something stupid. A late hit, an OB hit, slapping the QB, crap after the whistle. Not only am I not seeing that, I'm hearing the on-field mics showing the Bills players are saying "lay off" and don't do the stupid thing that has cost this team for I don't know how many years. It's great, it's a throwback to the Levy days of "don't be dumb."

 

That's what I've been waiting to see in the coaching for sooooo long. Penalties are gonna happen, fine. But the selfish and undisciplined ones that are avoidable, I want to at least see an effort to avoid them. Refs can botch calls and that's fine (see Shaq RtP), but the "play hard and play smart" is a hallmark of good teams.

This will be one of the more interesting elements of the season. For a HC who is SO invested in character and doing things right and getting the right kind of players, the Bills were WILDLY unorganized last year. The motion and Offside and ST penalties were insane. McD also has to get substantially better in his own in-game management. He has been terrible overall in his first two seasons. This year he needs to step up his game, too.

[Ralonzo]

6 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You realize that new england is routinely one of the most penalized teams.

 

But you can probably go join the OP in making points that contradict facts.

 

We value truth over facts?

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by Ralonzo
Make it a link

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

You realize that new england is routinely one of the most penalized teams.

 

But you can probably go join the OP in making points that contradict facts.

It depends on what kind of penalties they are.

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

It depends on what kind of penalties they are.

 

Go on...

[ColoradoBills]

4 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Well for starters, neither team has played their starting QB or RB. Indy didn't play TY Hilton. Carolina didn't play Kuechly on defense. You can't take anything away from the games.

 

Consider yourself enlightened. 

 

Seriously, nothing, zero.  I'm glad you're not on the staff.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

 

 

I'd click on that but I'd rather not get into politics with uneducated people. Football is annoying enough.

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

Seriously, nothing, zero.  I'm glad you're not on the staff.

 

You're welcome 

[Ralonzo]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'd click on that but I'd rather not get into politics with uneducated people. Football is annoying enough.

 

You know what it is, Fredo

[Logic]

3 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Well for starters, neither team has played their starting QB or RB. Indy didn't play TY Hilton. Carolina didn't play Kuechly on defense. You can't take anything away from the games.

 

Consider yourself enlightened. 

That's weird. I don't seem to remember the Bills playing Lorenzo Alexander or Micah Hyde on defense last week, yet they shut down the Colts offense pretty convincingly. 

I don't seem to remember Mitch Morse, Ty Nsekhe, or John Brown suiting up for Buffalo tonight. The Bills offense still took it to the Panthers defense.

Look: You can only play the people on the field. If the opposition is without key players, it means you'd better DOMINATE them. And the Bills did -- even though they, too, were missing key players. Like I said, the alternative -- and this is happening across the league to teams who are playing against opposition that are resting star players -- is to come out and look bad and fail to execute EVEN THOUGH the opposition is not at full strength. What would you say then?

If you want to be a pessimist about it and refuse to take even a modicum of cautious optimism from the fact that the Bills have looked better than their opponents two weeks in a row, then so be it. Fandom must be a real drag for you with that type of outlook. Me? I'll roll with cautious optimism, because life is short and sports are supposed to be fun.



 

[Kelly the Dog]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Go on...

Some penalties are undisciplined, some are over-aggressive, some are because you suck and you have to hold because you cannot do it right, some are because you are a scumbag like Vontaze Burfict. The Bills had a ridiculous amount of unforced error penalties because they were undisciplined, from a coach who screams for it.

[Logic]

@Ol Dirty B Enjoy staunchly defending your "I can't take any joy from the fact that my football team looked good the past couple weekends!" stance. Seriously. Have fun with that.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Logic

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Ralonzo said:

 

You know what it is, Fredo

 

I'm not italian nor a liberal. Again, I try not to talk politics with uneducated people.

 

You ***** know I'd be banned for that post I quoted lol.

[Ralonzo]

That's the surprising thing to me this season. The stuff that I was sure going to result in a dumb PF, the Bills are trying to avoid, and you can HEAR it from the field mics, and hear the congrats from doing something smart. 

[Taro T]

Yep.  Can't say for sure they'll be good this year and in both games they faced QB2; but they dominated on both sides of the ball in the 1st 1/2 both games.  Which is extremely encouraging.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

@Ol Dirty B Enjoy staunchly defending your "I can't take any joy from the fact that my football team looked good the past couple weekends!" stance. Seriously. Have fun with that.

 

I mean, I don't really care about preseason. My point was don't take much away from it. They haven't faced anyone. I hope they play this good in the regular season, my point was the competition hasn't been much.

 

Some people are sensitive.

[Ralonzo]

1 minute ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'm not italian nor a liberal. Again, I try not to talk politics with uneducated people.

 

You ***** know I'd be banned for that post I quoted lol.

 

No, I don't know that. If you want it removed that's fine, I assent. It's just funny IMO since it sounds like what you're saying - don't let the truth get in the way of the facts. I didn't assume anything on your part.

[Nelius]

I think it's worth getting excited about the depth on this team. It's been a long time. Feels like we're on the right side of things finally at a number of positions.

 

If this team was 0-2 right now this message board would be pure hilarious panic.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Taro T said:

Yep.  Can't say for sure they'll be good this year and in both games they faced QB2; but they dominated on both sides of the ball in the 1st 1/2 both games.  Which is extremely encouraging.

Yep. The team is 33% different. The OL was bottom of the league bad and the replacements look a lot different. The WR were bottom of the league bad and the replacements look a lot different. The RB were bottom third of the league and the replacements look a lot different. Josh and Edmunds were young, raw, hugely talented guys, they look a lot different. The OL, WR, ST coaches all seemed lousy and their replacements look a lot different. 

[Ol Dirty B]

12 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Some penalties are undisciplined, some are over-aggressive, some are because you suck and you have to hold because you cannot do it right, some are because you are a scumbag like Vontaze Burfict. The Bills had a ridiculous amount of unforced error penalties because they were undisciplined, from a coach who screams for it.

 

I'm pretty sure they were penalized heavily under Marrone when the defense was the best it has been in the 2000's. His 9-7* year was a better defense than the great defenses McDermott has put out. I think they may have been penalized more in Marrones last year than Rex's first, but I'd have to double check that.

 

The whole discipline and penalty stuff is for people trying to create a narrative and that's me trying to put it nicely.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Yep. The team is 33% different. The OL was bottom of the league bad and the replacements look a lot different. The WR were bottom of the league bad and the replacements look a lot different. The RB were bottom third of the league and the replacements look a lot different. Josh and Edmunds were young, raw, hugely talented guys, they look a lot different. The OL, WR, ST coaches all seemed lousy and their replacements look a lot different. 

I mean how much different is it with a center that isn't in the QB's lap every play? I don't know if Feliciano is better suited at guard or not but looking at just his play compared to Bodine, holy hell.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'm pretty sure they were penalized heavily under Marrone when the defense was the best it has been in the 2000's. His 9-7* year was a better defense than the great defenses McDermott has put out. I think they may have been penalized more in Marrones last year than Rex's first, but I'd have to double check that.

 

The whole discipline and penalty stuff is for people trying to creat a narrative and that's me trying to put it nicely.

I agree with that. For sure. But there is no denying that the Bills were insanely undisciplined last year. There were some season when Rex coached the Jets when they were in the top ten of least penalized teams, and he is likely the least disciplined HC in the last 30-40 years.

[Ol Dirty B]

3 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

 

No, I don't know that. If you want it removed that's fine, I assent. It's just funny IMO since it sounds like what you're saying - don't let the truth get in the way of the facts. I didn't assume anything on your part.

 

You called me Fredo, I doubt you would have done that a month ago.

 

I don't care lol. I just think it's funny. Keep going

[Buffalo Junction]

My take away is that this teams o line and depth looks a lot better than last year. 

[Ralonzo]

5 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I'm pretty sure they were penalized heavily under Marrone when the defense was the best it has been in the 2000's. His 9-7* year was a better defense than the great defenses McDermott has put out. I think they may have been penalized more in Marrones last year than Rex's first, but I'd have to double check that.

 

The whole discipline and penalty stuff is for people trying to creat a narrative and that's me trying to put it nicely.

 

What is it exactly you are trying to say here? Put it in words the rest of us can understand.

 

You don't want the Bills to play smart? You want them to take lots of personal fouls? Just say it.

 

I'm glad that there's focus being put on not doing that.

Edited August 17, 2019 by Ralonzo

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Kelly the Dog said:

I agree with that. For sure. But there is no denying that the Bills were insanely undisciplined last year. There were some season when Rex coached the Jets when they were in the top ten of least penalized teams, and he is likely the least disciplined HC in the last 30-40 years.

 

Fredo is tired of arguing. I disagreed on the importance of preseason, and I'm tired of it. I hope they keep it up, I've just seen it before.

 

Can't wait until I get banned for being insulted again.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

I mean how much different is it with a center that isn't in the QB's lap every play? I don't know if Feliciano is better suited at guard or not but looking at just his play compared to Bodine, holy hell.

The OL was unbelievably bad the last couple years. Stats be damned. Josh was under severe pressure all game every game. There were VERY few holes in the run game all year. They were criminally awful and Josh didnt get nearly enough credit for just ignoring, brushing off, shoving away, or juking pass rushers that were sacks against most other Qbs. These guys are different.

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

What is it exactly you are trying to say here? Put it in words the rest of us can understand.

 

You don't want the Bills to play smart? You want them to take lots of personal fouls? Just say it.

 

Jesus dude. You are simple.

[Ralonzo]

Just now, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Jesus dude. You are simple.

 

Quality argument. 

[Ol Dirty B]

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

Quality argument. 

 

I said it through two posts. Look at the teams that are the most penalized. They are usually winning teams. The discipline stuff is overdone.

 

I can't spell it out for you anymore. Maybe I can get it done in braille 

[Ralonzo]

2 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

Fredo is tired of arguing. I disagreed on the importance of preseason, and I'm tired of it. I hope they keep it up, I've just seen it before.

 

Can't wait until I get banned for being insulted again.

 

Now something about the importance of pre-season, that's fine. That's an argument. But you dismissed OP's argument pretty much out of hand, without a real reason other than "harrr I'm old guy i seen it all." The original point was the team's execution and I augmented. And neither of us agree with John McKay, but it sounds like you do... do you? Why?