Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
YoloinOhio

Jets fire GM Mike Maccagnan, name Adam Gase interim GM

Recommended Posts

It must be nice to own a business where no matter how terribly you run it (year after year after year), you just keep making cash hand over fist...

 

 

  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SoTier said:

Maybe if the Bills made the playoffs more often than seventeen year cicadas hatch, maybe occasionally making them on miraculous plays wouldn't be so noticeable.

Seeing as it is just you doing this right now, it is only you that has to worry about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 5/17/2019 at 6:45 PM, eball said:

Oh my god, the similarities between what the Jets are doing now and what the Bills did two years ago are striking. How can any Bills fan criticize the Jets?

 

Sincerely,

ScottLaw

I haven’t even seen a single reporter or analyst, local or national, claim that the situations are similar outside of the fact that both GMs were fired after a new HC was hired and after the draft. The only place I have seen this stretch on it being the same is on here. The biggest difference to me (and there are a ton that have already been discussed) is that the “franchise QB” was drafted under an entirely different regime now and neither the HC or future GM have any ties to him or are invested in his success since they didn’t pick him. One of the biggest reasons the Bills did not select a QB in the 2017 draft was because they knew Whaley was gone and wanted the QB to be selected under the new regime tied to both McDermott and Beane, and McD didn’t trust Whaley Staff’s QB scouting to use it on such a franchise altering decision. Here you have Sam Darnold now who you would think Gase wants to succeed because then it will mean wins... but he didn’t pick him and neither did the GM. That results in a much shorter leash for a QB and less commitment to his development, if the Jets have a high pick next year and Darnold wasn’t great, what’s to stop Gase from pulling what the Cardinals did this year? Nothing. How invested will they be in ensuring he develops? A lot less than if he was “their guy.” Watch for the hook to come out and him get benched if he throws a few picks 

Edited by YoloinOhio
  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lol. GM Gase really crushing it.

 

 

Here’s hoping that sets by default Beth Mowins to Jets games.

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I haven’t even seen a single reporter or analyst, local or national, claim that the situations are similar outside of the fact that both GMs were fired after a new HC was hired and after the draft. The only place I have seen this stretch on it being the same is on here. The biggest difference to me (and there are a ton that have already been discussed) is that the “franchise QB” was drafted under an entirely different regime now and neither the HC or future GM have any ties to him or are invested in his success since they didn’t pick him. One of the biggest reasons the Bills did not select a QB in the 2017 draft was because they knew Whaley was gone and wanted the QB to be selected under the new regime tied to both McDermott and Beane, and McD didn’t trust Whaley Staff’s QB scouting to use it on such a franchise altering decision. Here you have Sam Darnold now who you would think Gase wants to succeed because then it will mean wins... but he didn’t pick him and neither did the GM. That results in a much shorter leash for a QB and less commitment to his development, if the Jets have a high pick next year and Darnold wasn’t great, what’s to stop Gase from pulling what the Cardinals did this year? Nothing. How invested will they be in ensuring he develops? A lot less than if he was “their guy.” Watch for the hook to come out and him get benched if he throws a few picks 

 

to add.  even though whaley was the gm he was listening to mcd and made the deal to move back and by all accounts drafted guys mcd wanted. so we never had this gase situation where the rumors are he hates the draft and free agent signings.  beane comes in and is on the same page with mcd again and it was a seamless transition.  no distractions or controversy in the building.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I haven’t even seen a single reporter or analyst, local or national, claim that the situations are similar outside of the fact that both GMs were fired after a new HC was hired and after the draft. The only place I have seen this stretch on it being the same is on here. The biggest difference to me (and there are a ton that have already been discussed) is that the “franchise QB” was drafted under an entirely different regime now and neither the HC or future GM have any ties to him or are invested in his success since they didn’t pick him. One of the biggest reasons the Bills did not select a QB in the 2017 draft was because they knew Whaley was gone and wanted the QB to be selected under the new regime tied to both McDermott and Beane, and McD didn’t trust Whaley Staff’s QB scouting to use it on such a franchise altering decision. Here you have Sam Darnold now who you would think Gase wants to succeed because then it will mean wins... but he didn’t pick him and neither did the GM. That results in a much shorter leash for a QB and less commitment to his development, if the Jets have a high pick next year and Darnold wasn’t great, what’s to stop Gase from pulling what the Cardinals did this year? Nothing. How invested will they be in ensuring he develops? A lot less than if he was “their guy.” Watch for the hook to come out and him get benched if he throws a few picks

 

2 words: Nathan Peterman. 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

I haven’t even seen a single reporter or analyst, local or national, claim that the situations are similar outside of the fact that both GMs were fired after a new HC was hired and after the draft. The only place I have seen this stretch on it being the same is on here. The biggest difference to me (and there are a ton that have already been discussed) is that the “franchise QB” was drafted under an entirely different regime now and neither the HC or future GM have any ties to him or are invested in his success since they didn’t pick him. One of the biggest reasons the Bills did not select a QB in the 2017 draft was because they knew Whaley was gone and wanted the QB to be selected under the new regime tied to both McDermott and Beane, and McD didn’t trust Whaley Staff’s QB scouting to use it on such a franchise altering decision. Here you have Sam Darnold now who you would think Gase wants to succeed because then it will mean wins... but he didn’t pick him and neither did the GM. That results in a much shorter leash for a QB and less commitment to his development, if the Jets have a high pick next year and Darnold wasn’t great, what’s to stop Gase from pulling what the Cardinals did this year? Nothing. How invested will they be in ensuring he develops? A lot less than if he was “their guy.” Watch for the hook to come out and him get benched if he throws a few picks 

Yea this must be why they didn't take Mahomes or Watson.... it couldn't be because McDermott and Beane didn't think either guy was worth the pick and they were more concerned with getting one in what was a more highly touted class the following year.... they took "steady Eddie" as Beane refers to him in Nathan Peterman a few rounds later.... you think they were using Whaleys board? There were a lot of rumblings from Carolina of the Bills stealing their board. 

 

Just call it what it is. They passed on Mahomes/Watson because they wanted to. 

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea this must be why they didn't take Mahomes or Watson.... it couldn't be because McDermott and Beane didn't think either guy was worth the pick and they were more concerned with getting one in what was a more highly touted class the following year.... they took "steady Eddie" as Beane refers to him in Nathan Peterman a few rounds later.... you think they were using Whaleys board? There were a lot of rumblings from Carolina of the Bills stealing their board. 

 

Just call it what it is. They passed on Mahomes/Watson because they wanted to. 

 

Weird.  You never bring this up.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Haha (+1) 7
  • Thanks! (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea this must be why they didn't take Mahomes or Watson.... it couldn't be because McDermott and Beane didn't think either guy was worth the pick and they were more concerned with getting one in what was a more highly touted class the following year.... they took "steady Eddie" as Beane refers to him in Nathan Peterman a few rounds later.... you think they were using Whaleys board? There were a lot of rumblings from Carolina of the Bills stealing their board. 

 

Just call it what it is. They passed on Mahomes/Watson because they wanted to. 

Mahomes wouldn't have thrived here anyways if we would've drafted him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that pick.

 

Edit: Instead of using the cop out of reaction emojis. Tell me why I'm wrong? 

Edited by APoxOnYou
  • Like (+1) 1
  • Haha (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

 

2 words: Nathan Peterman. 

Never heard of her 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/19/2019 at 1:09 PM, YoloinOhio said:

I haven’t even seen a single reporter or analyst, local or national, claim that the situations are similar outside of the fact that both GMs were fired after a new HC was hired and after the draft. The only place I have seen this stretch on it being the same is on here. The biggest difference to me (and there are a ton that have already been discussed) is that the “franchise QB” was drafted under an entirely different regime now and neither the HC or future GM have any ties to him or are invested in his success since they didn’t pick him. One of the biggest reasons the Bills did not select a QB in the 2017 draft was because they knew Whaley was gone and wanted the QB to be selected under the new regime tied to both McDermott and Beane, and McD didn’t trust Whaley Staff’s QB scouting to use it on such a franchise altering decision. Here you have Sam Darnold now who you would think Gase wants to succeed because then it will mean wins... but he didn’t pick him and neither did the GM. That results in a much shorter leash for a QB and less commitment to his development, if the Jets have a high pick next year and Darnold wasn’t great, what’s to stop Gase from pulling what the Cardinals did this year? Nothing. How invested will they be in ensuring he develops? A lot less than if he was “their guy.” Watch for the hook to come out and him get benched if he throws a few picks 

 

Point 1 - if Darnold becomes a good QB then who drafted him will be totally irrelevant.  If he proves to be a bust, then who drafted him will also be irrelevant.  Being "his guy" or "their guy" only matters when a highly drafted  QB prospect doesn't develop into more than a mediocre starter and a team has to decide whether to keep him or move on.   Goff wasn't McVay's "guy" until he proved himself a good QB.   If Tampa moves on from Jameis Winston, it won't be that he's not Bruce Arians' "guy" but that he simply hasn't developed into a good enough NFL QB.

 

Point 2 - the only legitimate reasons to pass a great QB prospect when the opportunity to draft one arises is that a) you already have a franchise QB on your roster or b) you already drafted a great QB prospect the previous year or two or c) the player evaluators don't like the QB prospect(s) available.  Passing on a great QB prospect in order to give your future GM a chance to draft "his own guy" is beyond stupid simply because the team may not have the opportunity to draft a great QB prospect for the next 5 years or more, either because there aren't any QBs worth drafting (2013) or all the great QB prospects are already gone (2004 or 2016).   

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea this must be why they didn't take Mahomes or Watson.... it couldn't be because McDermott and Beane didn't think either guy was worth the pick and they were more concerned with getting one in what was a more highly touted class the following year.... they took "steady Eddie" as Beane refers to him in Nathan Peterman a few rounds later.... you think they were using Whaleys board? There were a lot of rumblings from Carolina of the Bills stealing their board. 

 

Just call it what it is. They passed on Mahomes/Watson because they wanted to. 

They passed on them, I believe, because McDermott wanted a real GM in position before making such a franchise altering decision. Didn't hurt that the next year's QB class was viewed as being better so there was incentive to wait.

1 minute ago, SoTier said:

 

Point 1 - if Darnold becomes a good QB then who drafted him will be totally irrelevant.  If he proves to be a bust, then who drafted him will also be irrelevant.  Being "his guy" or "their guy" only matters when a highly drafted  QB prospect doesn't develop into more than a mediocre starter and a team has to decide whether to keep him or move on.   Goff wasn't McVay's "guy" until he proved himself a good QB.   If Tampa moves on from Jameis Winston, it won't be that he's not Bruce Arians' "guy" but that he simply hasn't developed into a good enough NFL QB.

 

Point 2 - the only legitimate reasons to pass a great QB prospect when the opportunity to draft one arises is that a) you already have a franchise QB on your roster or b) you already drafted a great QB prospect the previous year or two or c) the player evaluators don't like the QB prospect(s) available.  Passing on a great QB prospect in order to give your future GM a chance to draft "his own guy" is beyond stupid simply because the team may not have the opportunity to draft a great QB prospect for the next 5 years or more, either because there aren't any QBs worth drafting (2013) or all the great QB prospects are already gone (2004 or 2016).   

Or D) You're not a GM and don't trust the evaluation of the current GM, so you need to get a GM you trust in the building so you can feel confident that you are picking a good QB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/17/2019 at 8:23 PM, TBBills Fan said:

Okay here is food for thought....

 

This firing is out of left field timing wise, or it "making no sense" right now is pretty universally agreed...I think

 

Okay, so after we laugh, which we can and should, lets take a moment to consider what the hell the straw was that broke the camels back here.

 

We know Johnson was on site more just to "see it for himself" apparently....

 

so lets speculate on how bad (realistically) it may have been behind closed doors between these guys....

 

(Edit: oh wait should that be its own thread or is it better here?)

 

Just picturing grown ass men at the jets facility screaming at each other or being held apart is a wonderful thought to comtemplate...

 

Im just saying I really would love to hear what the straw was that broke the camels back...

 

lol

 

 

I wouldn't agree that it makes no sense.  They gave Macgagnan five drafts. He has done a crappy job, outside of his high first round picks.  That's a plenty big sample-size.  Arguably, it was a long-time coming.  Not on ly did he get virtually nothing after the first round but there were total head-scratchers that virtually everyone else seemed to know were bad (like Hackenberg) but him.

 

So then why didn't they fire him when they fired Bowles?  I think Chris Johnson though it would be too overwhelming to do a search for the Coach and the GM at the same time with free agent season coming so soon.  And time is of the essence in getting the top guys signed.

 

And it is very tough for a new GM to do a draft on two or three months notice.  They don't have their scouts in place.  They don't know the entrenched scouts well enough to know if they can trust them.  I can kinda see why he did it this way.  But he is taking a PR beating.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And now they're going for Peyton Manning as GM. This should be good. Hoping they hire T.O for P.R director or something.

  • Haha (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Never heard of her 

EJ retired from football.  Now there’s another space for a young hopeful to ‘keep his feet on the ground (better throwing mechanics) while reaching for the stars’.  🙄😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Makes sense - had to make room for Matt Darr 😎

 

git er done?

Edited by YoloinOhio

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dma0034 said:

And now they're going for Peyton Manning as GM. This should be good. Hoping they hire T.O for P.R director or something.

 

What’s a press conference without a few sit-ups? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, APoxOnYou said:

Mahomes wouldn't have thrived here anyways if we would've drafted him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that pick.

 

Edit: Instead of using the cop out of reaction emojis. Tell me why I'm wrong? 

Because I have eyes. Define thrived? 50 TD's? No. But he doubled the production of his predecessor Alex Smith, a quality QB in his own right. Are the Chiefs stacked? Yes. Is Patrick Mahomes a transcendent talent? Absolutely. He would have been a star wherever he was drafted.

 

However, NONE of that will matter if Allen is the real deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Weird.  You never bring this up.

Just trying to keep pace with the excuses for passing on the league MVP.😉

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

 

I wouldn't agree that it makes no sense.  They gave Macgagnan five drafts. He has done a crappy job, outside of his high first round picks.  That's a plenty big sample-size.  Arguably, it was a long-time coming.  Not on ly did he get virtually nothing after the first round but there were total head-scratchers that virtually everyone else seemed to know were bad (like Hackenberg) but him.

 

So then why didn't they fire him when they fired Bowles?  I think Chris Johnson though it would be too overwhelming to do a search for the Coach and the GM at the same time with free agent season coming so soon.  And time is of the essence in getting the top guys signed.

 

And it is very tough for a new GM to do a draft on two or three months notice.  They don't have their scouts in place.  They don't know the entrenched scouts well enough to know if they can trust them.  I can kinda see why he did it this way.  But he is taking a PR beating.

 

 

 

 

The issue is if Johnson didn’t want to do the work to search for a coach and a GM - why give the GM you want to fire a big say in hiring the HC.

 

Additionally - why give that same GM the keys to the biggest FA haul in years for the Jets?  If you think he is a bad GM - why let him spend and put you back into Salary Cap jail.

 

If you are getting rid of the GM for doing a bad job - why do you let him run the final draft - to the point that the coach literally did not participate at all in the draft prep and running of the draft.

 

Finally - if you were getting rid of the GM for performance- wouldn’t you have some legitimate people in mind and be moving on this process.  The head coach just made a trade of a former 1st round pick and cut players to sign a punter.  There is work and fires to be put out.

 

In the end - you put together these 3 points and it is obvious they had no intention of getting rid of the GM, but the actions of the new coach forced their hand.  Gase was not happy with the FA players signed - nor the money and it is obvious that he was not happy with the pre-draft and draft action.  Someone had to go - so say bye bye to the GM.  It may not be wrong based on the draft history, but I do not think it was part of a plan - it just needed to happen once you look closely at the 2 guys involved.

Edited by Rochesterfan
  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, MJS said:

Or D) You're not a GM and don't trust the evaluation of the current GM, so you need to get a GM you trust in the building so you can feel confident that you are picking a good QB.

 

Not having a GM and competent scouting apparatus in place to run the draft is absolutely not acceptable.  It's an excuse for an incompetent organization that hasn't done its job.   According to former NFL GM Charley Cassserly, the primary job of a GM, even when he has limited power as Whaley had in Buffalo, is to run the draft.   Pegula and Brandon knew what they had in Whaley.  If they had any doubts about how he might get along with a new HC, they should have fired him at the end of 2016 when they canned Ryan or they should have let him have much more input into the hiring a new coach so that he could get a HC that he could work with (I believe that McDermott was hired by a search committee but I'm not positive that's true).

 

If an organization doesn't "trust"  their GM enough to allow him to run their draft and instead turn it over to a rookie HC whose been with the team for a few months at the last minute, what's the point of keeping him and the scouts that answer to him on the payroll until after the draft?    Since the NFL is a tiny exclusive club with only 32 members, it's highly unlikely that the Bills could hide that Whaley was a lame-duck from their peers for very long so the excuse that they didn't want to "tip their hand on the draft"  is just more excuse making.

  • Meh 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...