Robert Foster love from PFF only 1 of 2 WRs on both Avg Depth of Target and Avg Yards per Target

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like we just have a bunch of #3 receivers and they are getting pumped up because of how well Allen played down the stretch. Foster’s hands scare me, he seems to bobble a lot of passes that are right on the money.

Agreed. Foster had a great second half of the season, but he drops a LOT of balls.  I do not think the Bills can afford to stand pat after signing Beasley and Brown.

[Cripple Creek]

For someone not interested in fantasy stats can someone explain what depth of target (assuming it's yards per attempt to Foster) and yards per target (guessing mayby YAC?) relate to?

[Bronxbomber21]

9 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Duke Williams is going to be the breakout WR for the Bills this year.  The guy can high point the ball like Megatron and seems to win every 50/50 that comes his way.  He is going to catch some touchdowns this year.

 

Don't sleep on the Duke, he is going to be a Red Zone monster.

 

I agree if Duke balls out he would be a great #1 and with Brown, Foster & Beasley that would be an awesome group.

[Doc]

13 hours ago, VW82 said:

Love seeing Foster's name near the top of the yards per target list. That's legit. I still feel like he's going to get stuck competing with Brown for a starting spot, and given we just guaranteed Brown a bunch of money he's likely going to get it. Speed is great, and both those guys have it in spades, but I can see McD opting to go with someone that has a little more size and toughness at the other WR2 spot. I think Zay will be the favorite and guys like Duke will push him. It'll add another dimension to have someone who can block for Beasley on WR screens or pick plays. Foster will get his share of snaps though. He had nice chemistry with Josh, and that counts for a lot.

 

With what Foster showed in the 2nd half of the season, not to mention his familiarity with Daboll, he's an absolute lock to start.  And at 6'2" and (he will probably be around) 200#, he's the same size as Zay.  Brown will be the other starter and Beasley will be the 3rd/slot receiver, leaving the rest fight for the remaining spots.  Duke Williams is a compete unknown so all judgements will have to be reserved until he actually plays in a game.

[gobills1212]

15 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

What hes flashed is the ability to be one of the leading WR in the league.  I dont completely disagree with you but youre being a bit on the "I dont want a let down so I will down play it" side of things.

I just think Im not AS impressed with you after a qlty half season of football. I litterally hope you are correct!!

[formerlyofCtown]

3 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

I just think Im not AS impressed with you after a qlty half season of football. I litterally hope you are correct!!

It does come down to if he remains focused.

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

I just think Im not AS impressed with you after a qlty half season of football. I litterally hope you are correct!!

 

4 minutes ago, formerlyofCtown said:

It does come down to if he remains focused.

 

He's been staying in Buffalo to workout and flew out to California to work with Josh.  He's focused.

[Ronin]

6 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like we just have a bunch of #3 receivers and they are getting pumped up because of how well Allen played down the stretch. Foster’s hands scare me, he seems to bobble a lot of passes that are right on the money.

 

Foster was ranked 145th in catch % last season, somewhat better than Jones who's horrible in that regard.  So yes, that corresponds to not catching too many balls.  

 

And again, which few seem to have caugnt onto, his best games were with Anderson, Barkley and Peterman under center.  He averaged 3.25 catches for 82 YPG under them for a YPR average of 25.4.  He was notably worse with Allen.  Even in his last three games with Allen back from injury he averaged 4 catches for 60 yards.  

 

Otherwise, I agree, we have a roster full of 3 WRs, possibly 2's, but not a bona fide #1 among them much less an impact WR.  

 

I anticipate that they'll grab a WR in round 2 or 3.  They have to focus on OL-men tho in this draft.  As I pointed out earlier, last year of their first 6 picks in the first five rounds, only two players were offense, one of which being Allen, Teller being the last of those picks near the end of the 5th. 

 

They've absolutely gotta reverse that this year and go O.  

 

 

[Troll Toll]

6 hours ago, mannc said:

Agreed. Foster had a great second half of the season, but he drops a LOT of balls.  I do not think the Bills can afford to stand pat after signing Beasley and Brown.

For sure, this isn’t New England. What I mean by that is we have Josh ******* Allen. He can make any throw anywhere, just surround him with receivers that can dominate DBs downfield and in the intermediate range and it will be chunk plays and scores all over. Fitting Josh into a short, precision passing system would unnecessarily handcuff him from his potential. I think if we get him 2 receivers that could be considered #1 guys then he could lead the top passing attack in the league.

[gobills1212]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

He's been staying in Buffalo to workout and flew out to California to work with Josh.  He's focused.

Which again, is awesome and it can do nothing but help. AT THIS MOMENT, outside of Buffalo, no one is really respecting/fearing or considering the kid a legitimate threat/weapon. I HOPE that is different this time next year and he is a budding FWR in the making, becomes to Allen what Reed was to Kelly, and has gotten both recognition and pro bowl looks. 

I GET being jacked about a player, Ive defended Allen on other teams boards but at the end of the day peoples minds dont change on projections - they change with results. Thats why my last couple responses have kinda changed directions from what he was to was to pumping the breaks on annointing the kid as the man as if he has achieved something other than his half of a good year. I like your confidence and hope, but its getting to the point where you either A) have a crystal ball and know whats up next year qnd cant tell us or B) have some sort of personal investment in his success. Thats not at all an insult btw - i just cant imagine being this sold on someone unless you legit know something the rest of us dont.

[Doc]

13 minutes ago, TaskersGhost said:

Foster was ranked 145th in catch % last season, somewhat better than Jones who's horrible in that regard.  So yes, that corresponds to not catching too many balls.  

 

And again, which few seem to have caugnt onto, his best games were with Anderson, Barkley and Peterman under center.  He averaged 3.25 catches for 82 YPG under them for a YPR average of 25.4.  He was notably worse with Allen.  Even in his last three games with Allen back from injury he averaged 4 catches for 60 yards.  

 

Otherwise, I agree, we have a roster full of 3 WRs, possibly 2's, but not a bona fide #1 among them much less an impact WR.  

 

I anticipate that they'll grab a WR in round 2 or 3.  They have to focus on OL-men tho in this draft.  As I pointed out earlier, last year of their first 6 picks in the first five rounds, only two players were offense, one of which being Allen, Teller being the last of those picks near the end of the 5th. 

 

They've absolutely gotta reverse that this year and go O. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

Which again, is awesome and it can do nothing but help. AT THIS MOMENT, outside of Buffalo, no one is really respecting/fearing or considering the kid a legitimate threat/weapon. I HOPE that is different this time next year and he is a budding FWR in the making, becomes to Allen what Reed was to Kelly, and has gotten both recognition and pro bowl looks. 

I GET being jacked about a player, Ive defended Allen on other teams boards but at the end of the day peoples minds dont change on projections - they change with results. Thats why my last couple responses have kinda changed directions from what he was to was to pumping the breaks on annointing the kid as the man as if he has achieved something other than his half of a good year. I like your confidence and hope, but its getting to the point where you either A) have a crystal ball and know whats up next year qnd cant tell us or B) have some sort of personal investment in his success. Thats not at all an insult btw - i just cant imagine being this sold on someone unless you legit know something the rest of us dont.

 

And you are basing this on...what?  You don't think that after returning to the active roster and gaining almost 200 yards in his first 2 games back he didn't catch the attention of opposing DC's?

[gobills1212]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

 

 

And you are basing this on...what?  You don't think that after returning to the active roster and gaining almost 200 yards in his first 2 games back he didn't catch the attention of opposing DC's?

Now this is just splitting hairs. If you have any friends that are fans of other teams try having a convo about how they need to be scared of Foster. If they agree and dont elaborate, odds are they are patronizing you. They wont be shaking in their boots and thats WITH the benefit (assuming you reside in WNY) of them knowing who he is. WE like him becuase he is a nice player with potential on OUR team. Its neither here no there, but Jets fans would laugh you off the Gang Green board if you 'threatened ' them with Foster. 

Im not comfortable with this narrative in that im painted into a corner of acting like Im a Foster detractor. I can get behind a qlty 1st yr. I can get behind the potential of a very good WR. I can even get beind continuing to progress and picking up where he left off last year. I cant however sit here and act like hes had his coming out party and is now a respected and feared weapon. That hasnt been achieved yet IMO. You seem certian it will happen, and again, i hope it does. But as of now, all he has to hang his hat on is last year. Not projections,  or you being certain it will happen. Once again, the only thing that will change that is producing in games.  As weve seen winning in the off season is no big thing when bullets start flying. The jury is still out in the same way the RQB class of 18 is out. As Bills fans we are excited about Allen. Jets fans arent scared. The only thing that changes that is by making it so, when it counts, and there are tangible results.  Potential can only strike so much fear in opponents.

Edited March 28, 2019 by gobills1212

[Doc]

14 minutes ago, gobills1212 said:

Now this is just splitting hairs. If you have any friends that are fans of other teams try having a convo about how they need to be scared of Foster. If they agree and dont elaborate, odds are they are patronizing you. They wont be shaking in their boots and thats WITH the benefit (assuming you reside in WNY) of them knowing who he is. WE like him becuase he is a nice player with potential on OUR team. Its neither here no there, but Jets fans would laugh you off the Gang Green board if you 'threatened ' them with Foster. 

Im not comfortable with this narrative in that im painted into a corner of acting like Im a Foster detractor. I can get behind a qlty 1st yr. I can get behind the potential of a very good WR. I can even get beind continuing to progress and picking up where he left off last year. I cant however sit here and act like hes had his coming out party and is now a respected and feared weapon. That hasnt been achieved yet IMO. You seem certian it will happen, and again, i hope it does. But as of now, all he has to hang his hat on is last year. Not projections,  or you being certain it will happen. Once again, the only thing that will change that is producing in games.  As weve seen winning in the off season is no big thing when bullets start flying. The jury is still out in the same way the RQB class of 18 is out. As Bills fans we are excited about Allen. Jets fans arent scared. The only thing that changes that is by making it so, when it counts, and there are tangible results.  Potential can only strike so much fear in opponents.

 

The topic wasn't fans of other teams: it was opposing DC's.  While I have not taken a poll of them, I am more than comfortable saying that at the very latest opposing DC's took notice of Foster after his 100 yard game against the Jets and then almost gaining 100 yards against the Jags.  It was more than potential at that point.  And if Jets fans don't know Foster's name after he gained 209 yards against them last year...

[eball]

8 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like we just have a bunch of #3 receivers and they are getting pumped up because of how well Allen played down the stretch. Foster’s hands scare me, he seems to bobble a lot of passes that are right on the money.

 

7 hours ago, mannc said:

Agreed. Foster had a great second half of the season, but he drops a LOT of balls.  I do not think the Bills can afford to stand pat after signing Beasley and Brown.

 

Foster had three drops on 44 targets.  Roughly the same rate as Brown, actually, who dropped six on 97 targets.  Beasley is your man -- one drop on 87 targets.  And for as much schitt as we give Zay, he only dropped three on 102 targets.

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

 

Foster had three drops on 44 targets.  Roughly the same rate as Brown, actually, who dropped six on 97 targets.  Beasley is your man -- one drop on 87 targets.  And for as much schitt as we give Zay, he only dropped three on 102 targets.

Ok, I’ll admit I was influenced by that video someone posted of all the drops by Bills receivers last season...Foster had some really bad ones, as did Zay.

[eball]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

Ok, I’ll admit I was influenced by that video someone posted of all the drops by Bills receivers last season...Foster had some really bad ones, as did Zay.

 

Agreed.  And you always remember those because they usually cost us points or drives.

[Boca BIlls]

Crazy all this said about him and he will be fighting for a roster spot this year. Hopefully he wasn't just a fluke like many.

[LSHMEAB]

16 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Why the hate for a solid and appropriate football metaphor? 

 

The connotation for me goes immediately to the Peyton Manning prime years with the Colts. Manning's pregame routine with Harrison was regimented and becoming legendary; their rapid, robotic, rote execution of each of the nine routes during warm-ups represented something we in Buffalo had been missing for a number of years already, and would continue to miss for many more: high-end, precise passing execution. I remember that a reluctant/aloof Reggie Wayne didn't really emerge until he swallowed his pride and began to participate in the ritualistic preparation that goes into being consistently great. 

 

Anyone raised on Air Coryell offensive football, as my mom made sure I was, could appreciate that kind of nearly-impossible-to-defend passing precision.

 

Anyways, the route tree itself looks less like a tree and more like a dandelion puffy with seeds.

 

Major sidebar, batman. Apologies.

Excellent post. My issue with the term is that it's often used by people who have no idea what they're talking about. They hear route tree and repeat it knowing full well they don't understand the full definition. So it's not so much the term as it is people using it without understanding what it means.

Edited March 28, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[formerlyofCtown]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 

He's been staying in Buffalo to workout and flew out to California to work with Josh.  He's focused.

Just had a scary thought about broken feet.?

[Troll Toll]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

 

Foster had three drops on 44 targets.  Roughly the same rate as Brown, actually, who dropped six on 97 targets.  Beasley is your man -- one drop on 87 targets.  And for as much schitt as we give Zay, he only dropped three on 102 targets.

The drop stats are way off, imo if the ball hits your hands and you don’t catch it, that should count as a drop. 

[gobills1212]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The topic wasn't fans of other teams: it was opposing DC's.  While I have not taken a poll of them, I am more than comfortable saying that at the very latest opposing DC's took notice of Foster after his 100 yard game against the Jets and then almost gaining 100 yards against the Jags.  It was more than potential at that point.  And if Jets fans don't know Foster's name after he gained 209 yards against them last year...

Its all relative - i hadnt made a single comment about what the OP actually authored this post about. The convo evolved w each response from you. If you want to 'argue' one thing fine - but at this point it feels more like a circle bc we just keep going round and dont even necessarily disagree. AFAIC the only point thats worth consideration is most fans can at least name each teams qb along w a wr. Many cant get the wr for buffalo bc foster hasnt ensablished himself and this isnt a household name UNTIL he goes out there and makes himself one - which was my point. You can be certian itll happen if youd like, but my argument was it hasnt happened yet and im not counting eggs before they hatch no matter how convinced you are.

Edited March 28, 2019 by gobills1212

[CSBill]

On 3/27/2019 at 9:42 PM, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Maybe I'm crazy, but I think Duke Williams is going to be the breakout WR for the Bills this year.  The guy can high point the ball like Megatron and seems to win every 50/50 that comes his way.  He is going to catch some touchdowns this year.

 

Don't sleep on the Duke, he is going to be a Red Zone monster.

 

 

Oh yes, I forgot about him in all the other activity. Indeed, I do think (hope) he adds to it.

[Rebel101]

On 3/27/2019 at 5:28 PM, Reed83HOF said:

I find it interesting that KB had 30 targets with a depth of 16.59 yards

I’m sure he walked back after each one and dropped atleast half

[Doc]

14 hours ago, gobills1212 said:

Its all relative - i hadnt made a single comment about what the OP actually authored this post about. The convo evolved w each response from you. If you want to 'argue' one thing fine - but at this point it feels more like a circle bc we just keep going round and dont even necessarily disagree. AFAIC the only point thats worth consideration is most fans can at least name each teams qb along w a wr. Many cant get the wr for buffalo bc foster hasnt ensablished himself and this isnt a household name UNTIL he goes out there and makes himself one - which was my point. You can be certian itll happen if youd like, but my argument was it hasnt happened yet and im not counting eggs before they hatch no matter how convinced you are.

 

While I thought Foster had what it took to be a #1 WR, I said after last season that the Bills needed to add at least a veteran #2 WR.  They did that.  I fully expect Foster to start opposite Brown, unless someone else outplays Brown in camp, and Beasley to be the 3rd WR.  I also do not expect them to take a WR on days 1 or 2, and if at all, late day 3.

[Logic]

18 hours ago, Boca BIlls said:

Crazy all this said about him and he will be fighting for a roster spot this year. Hopefully he wasn't just a fluke like many.

I doubt it.

I would put the chances of his not making the roster at 1%.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Logic said:

I doubt it.

I would put the chances of his not making the roster at 1%.

 

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'd put it at 0%.

[Logic]

51 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'd put it at 0%.

I'm kind of with ya, but I left the 1% to account for, like, punching a police officer or something.

[Doc]

39 minutes ago, Logic said:

I'm kind of with ya, but I left the 1% to account for, like, punching a police officer or something.

 

That's the "unforeseen" part.  Unless there's something in his history.

[Boca BIlls]

7 hours ago, Logic said:

I doubt it.

I would put the chances of his not making the roster at 1%.

You never know, they let him go already during the season last year. He needs to prove it wasn't a fluke.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Boca BIlls

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Doc]

10 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Thats some good company.