Ja’Waan Taylor OT Florida

[The Now Moment]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wouldn't draft a guy in the first who I thought was a RT only. If I am taking a guy in the first round I need to believe that he can play on the left side even if I intend to start him on the right early in his career.

Why? Guards and centers go in the draft in the first round all the time. Why can’t a good right tackle? An improvement to the offensive line is worth a 1st round pick no matter what the position is IMO. A solid starting right tackle in the first round would be a million times better than the revolving door that is Mills.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Buffalo30

[Tatonka68]

Dabol knows Jonah Williams from Alabama and has seen Taylor when they played against Alabama. So we will see.

[GunnerBill]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Why? Guards and centers go in the draft in the first round all the time. Why can’t a good right tackle? An improvement to the offensive line is worth a 1st round pick no matter what the position is IMO. A solid starting right tackle in the first round would be a million times better than the revolving door that is Mills.

 

A solid starting right tackle is a bad use of a first round pick. Solid starting right tackles don't impact Ws and Ls enough to make them worth a 1st round pick. That doesn't mean they can't improve your team - but there are 6 other rounds to improve your team and there are routes to get vets through FA and trade that improve your team. Your first round pick (especially if you are picking in the first 2/3rds of the 1st round as the Bills invariably have been) should be real key impact players at critical positions. If you want to take a tackle in the 1st and start him at right tackle I am fine with that, but it must be someone who you feel ultimately could be a starting blindside protector in the National Football League - because they more than any other linemen impact Ws and Ls and they are the people that are much harder to acquire through trade, FA and in later rounds.

 

Let's take Ja'Wuan James as our case study: 

- Drafted by the Dolphins in the 1st round of the 2014 NFL Draft (19th overall);

- Started as a rookie at RT opposite a proven vet in Brandon Albert on the left side;

- He started the season okay but when Albert got injured down the stretch he moved over to left tackle where he struggled badly with foot speed and movement skills in pass protection;

- Since then, returned to RT, he has given the Dolphins 4 really solid years of top 3rd of the league right tackle play;

- But going into 2016 (which would be James's third year the Dolphins) the Dolphins decided that they needed a long term answer to take over from Brandon Albert at LT in 2017;

- They judged James did not have the necessary skills to play left tackle and as a result spent a second 1st round pick in 3 years on an OT taking Laremy Tunsil;

- By the end of 2018 the Dolphins are in a position where James is a FA and it looks unlikely they bring him back, meaning that for their investment of a 1st round pick they have got 4 good years of production at a non-premier position.

 

That isn't a bust by any means... and he did improve their offensive line. But it is a poor return on investment. And I would argue James has been more than "a solid starting right tackle". He still hasn't been worth it. Now if when Albert moved on they had felt good enough about James to slide him over to the left side and he had become the starter there then I have no issue with him playing his first 3 years on the right side. But what the Dolphins did was spend a 1st round pick on a guy whose NFL ceiling was good right tackle.

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A solid starting right tackle is a bad use of a first round pick. Solid starting right tackles don't impact Ws and Ls enough to make them worth a 1st round pick. That doesn't mean they can't improve your team - but there are 6 other rounds to improve your team and there are routes to get vets through FA and trade that improve your team. Your first round pick (especially if you are picking in the first 2/3rds of the 1st round as the Bills invariably have been) should be real key impact players at critical positions. If you want to take a tackle in the 1st and start him at right tackle I am fine with that, but it must be someone who you feel ultimately could be a starting blindside protector in the National Football League - because they more than any other linemen impact Ws and Ls and they are the people that are much harder to acquire through trade, FA and in later rounds.

 

Let's take Ja'Wuan James as our case study: 

- Drafted by the Dolphins in the 1st round of the 2014 NFL Draft (19th overall);

- Started as a rookie at RT opposite a proven vet in Brandon Albert on the left side;

- He started the season okay but when Albert got injured down the stretch he moved over to left tackle where he struggled badly with foot speed and movement skills in pass protection;

- Since then, returned to RT, he has given the Dolphins 4 really solid years of top 3rd of the league right tackle play;

- But going into 2016 (which would be James's third year the Dolphins) the Dolphins decided that they needed a long term answer to take over from Brandon Albert at LT in 2017;

- They judged James did not have the necessary skills to play left tackle and as a result spent a second 1st round pick in 3 years on an OT taking Laremy Tunsil;

- By the end of 2018 the Dolphins are in a position where James is a FA and it looks unlikely they bring him back, meaning that for their investment of a 1st round pick they have got 4 good years of production at a non-premier position.

 

That isn't a bust by any means... and he did improve their offensive line. But it is a poor return on investment. And I would argue James has been more than "a solid starting right tackle". He still hasn't been worth it. Now if when Albert moved on they had felt good enough about James to slide him over to the left side and he had become the starter there then I have no issue with him playing his first 3 years on the right side. But what the Dolphins did was spend a 1st round pick on a guy whose NFL ceiling was good right tackle.

 

Sounds like we should just sign him!

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Sounds like we should just sign him!

 

Yep. If you want a "solid right tackle" and that is your priority for improving the line they should just sign Ja'Wuan James to a decent FA contract. That is a better and more efficient use of resources.

[The Now Moment]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A solid starting right tackle is a bad use of a first round pick. Solid starting right tackles don't impact Ws and Ls enough to make them worth a 1st round pick. That doesn't mean they can't improve your team - but there are 6 other rounds to improve your team and there are routes to get vets through FA and trade that improve your team. Your first round pick (especially if you are picking in the first 2/3rds of the 1st round as the Bills invariably have been) should be real key impact players at critical positions. If you want to take a tackle in the 1st and start him at right tackle I am fine with that, but it must be someone who you feel ultimately could be a starting blindside protector in the National Football League - because they more than any other linemen impact Ws and Ls and they are the people that are much harder to acquire through trade, FA and in later rounds.

 

Let's take Ja'Wuan James as our case study: 

- Drafted by the Dolphins in the 1st round of the 2014 NFL Draft (19th overall);

- Started as a rookie at RT opposite a proven vet in Brandon Albert on the left side;

- He started the season okay but when Albert got injured down the stretch he moved over to left tackle where he struggled badly with foot speed and movement skills in pass protection;

- Since then, returned to RT, he has given the Dolphins 4 really solid years of top 3rd of the league right tackle play;

- But going into 2016 (which would be James's third year the Dolphins) the Dolphins decided that they needed a long term answer to take over from Brandon Albert at LT in 2017;

- They judged James did not have the necessary skills to play left tackle and as a result spent a second 1st round pick in 3 years on an OT taking Laremy Tunsil;

- By the end of 2018 the Dolphins are in a position where James is a FA and it looks unlikely they bring him back, meaning that for their investment of a 1st round pick they have got 4 good years of production at a non-premier position.

 

That isn't a bust by any means... and he did improve their offensive line. But it is a poor return on investment. And I would argue James has been more than "a solid starting right tackle". He still hasn't been worth it. Now if when Albert moved on they had felt good enough about James to slide him over to the left side and he had become the starter there then I have no issue with him playing his first 3 years on the right side. But what the Dolphins did was spend a 1st round pick on a guy whose NFL ceiling was good right tackle.

So you’d be against grabbing a center and a guard in the first round too under this logic. 

 

It’s not our problem that they’d let go of a top RT (if indeed he is one). I haven’t watched him play enough but you’re going to tell me in a league that passes the ball a lot and good defenses have multiple pass rushers a team doesn’t value a RT? I find that hard to believe given what we’ve seen at RT the last few years. 

 

A swing tackle can can be a backup to a LT. That’s what they are used for. 

 

Mills has had wrecked games this year for Allen. He’s given up plenty of pressures, sacks and hits on the QB. That’d be really valuable to stop. Remember the cowboys dominat o line play that they invested multiple 1st round picks in and it made everyone better. I think that’s something to learn from. Keep guys off of Allen and we can bring in cheap RB play. Invest in the lines. It’s worth it. 

 

I’m all in with the BPA and if that’s a RT, you have to yes. 

 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Rather Cody Ford than Ja'Waan Taylor but I'd much rather a LT than RT.

[ChanticleerBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Sounds like we should just sign him!

Was literally about to say that!

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

So you’d be against grabbing a center and a guard in the first round too under this logic. 

 

It’s not our problem that they’d let go of a top RT (if indeed he is one). I haven’t watched him play enough but you’re going to tell me in a league that passes the ball a lot and good defenses have multiple pass rushers a team doesn’t value a RT? I find that hard to believe given what we’ve seen at RT the last few years. 

 

A swing tackle can can be a backup to a LT. That’s what they are used for. 

 

Mills has had wrecked games this year for Allen. He’s given up plenty of pressures, sacks and hits on the QB. That’d be really valuable to stop. Remember the cowboys dominat o line play that they invested multiple 1st round picks in and it made everyone better. I think that’s something to learn from. Keep guys off of Allen and we can bring in cheap RB play. Invest in the lines. It’s worth it. 

 

I’m all in with the BPA and if that’s a RT, you have to yes. 

 

 

So center I'd put a higher value on - they are responsible for identifying blitzes and calling protections and as we saw when Ryan Groy was in this year - that matters! If I think someone can be a top 3rd of the league center I am okay with spending a 1st round pick on them, but having said that in the 5 years I have been grading the only center I have actually give a 1st round grade to is Ryan Kelly in 2016 who went to the Colts. Two went in the first last year I had 2nd round grades on both. Guard I am willing to give 1st round grades.... but most of the ones I give are people like Zack Martin and Forrest Lamp who I thought were potentially top level guards who could also play left tackle (which interestingly enough is how I evaluated Dion Dawkins too although at lower level I had a 2nd on him). Someone like Quenton Nelson who went to the Colts last year is an obvious 1st round grade he was a stud.

 

And the Cowboys dominant offensive line that you reference pretty much proves my point about the value of RT. The left tackle was Tyron Smith (top 10 pick), the left guard was La'el Collins (UDFA who before off the field controversy was slated as a 1st or 2nd round pick), the center was Travis Fredrick (1st round pick), the right guard was Zack Martin (1st round pick) but the right tackle? Doug Free (4th round pick) who started his career at right tackle, they moved to the left and failed and moved back to the right. It is not a premium position and if a guy's ceiling is right tackle you shouldn't pick them in the 1st round. You should pick them later in the draft or find them in FA.

[TigerJ]

Charlie Campbell at Walterfootball .com is a Jawaan Taylor fan, but then that's not a great recommendation to have.

[Ittakestime]

He is my favorite tackle prospect.  I like him better than Jonah and Little.

[hemma]

He was really stout in their bowl game.  

Made it look easy.

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, TigerJ said:

Charlie Campbell at Walterfootball .com is a Jawaan Taylor fan, but then that's not a great recommendation to have.

Well walterfootball is the draft bible here so... Whatver they say is gospel. 

[BillsfanAZ]

3 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Beane says he will not draft for need. I believe him. If he reaches on any of those guys, he's full of it. When teams draft for need that's how guys like JJ Watt and Aaron Donald fall. I hope the teams in front us make that type of mistake. 

I hope there are teams that will jump up in the draft to snag QB's so better players fall. Wonder what the Dolphins and Redskins will be looking to move up for a QB. 

[CuddyDark]

I think he falls like Cordy Glenn or Marcus Gilbert. Reminds me of that kind of player. Probably a 2nd round tackle.

[The Now Moment]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So center I'd put a higher value on - they are responsible for identifying blitzes and calling protections and as we saw when Ryan Groy was in this year - that matters! If I think someone can be a top 3rd of the league center I am okay with spending a 1st round pick on them, but having said that in the 5 years I have been grading the only center I have actually give a 1st round grade to is Ryan Kelly in 2016 who went to the Colts. Two went in the first last year I had 2nd round grades on both. Guard I am willing to give 1st round grades.... but most of the ones I give are people like Zack Martin and Forrest Lamp who I thought were potentially top level guards who could also play left tackle (which interestingly enough is how I evaluated Dion Dawkins too although at lower level I had a 2nd on him). Someone like Quenton Nelson who went to the Colts last year is an obvious 1st round grade he was a stud.

 

And the Cowboys dominant offensive line that you reference pretty much proves my point about the value of RT. The left tackle was Tyron Smith (top 10 pick), the left guard was La'el Collins (UDFA who before off the field controversy was slated as a 1st or 2nd round pick), the center was Travis Fredrick (1st round pick), the right guard was Zack Martin (1st round pick) but the right tackle? Doug Free (4th round pick) who started his career at right tackle, they moved to the left and failed and moved back to the right. It is not a premium position and if a guy's ceiling is right tackle you shouldn't pick them in the 1st round. You should pick them later in the draft or find them in FA.

Valid points. However, I think it’s very difficult to know if a guy can’t play left tackle in college. You see so many players who can develop into that role. Glenn and Peters alone are guys that we’ve developed into left tackles but maybe were better suited for other positions around draft time. 

 

I agree with giving the center position, it holds a lot of importance. I might just be one of the few that find the right tackle to also be really important. There are a lot of great pass rushers that our right tackles have to play. If Allen wants any time in the pocket next season, Buffalo will need to see a massive upgrade at that spot. 

 

Allen got hurt from a hit by a rusher that our RT let by. Isn’t that the whole point to having a solid LT, so they don’t get hurt. To me, RT is an underrated position as more teams look to improve their pass rushers. 

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said:

Valid points. However, I think it’s very difficult to know if a guy can’t play left tackle in college. You see so many players who can develop into that role. Glenn and Peters alone are guys that we’ve developed into left tackles but maybe were better suited for other positions around draft time. 

 

I agree with giving the center position, it holds a lot of importance. I might just be one of the few that find the right tackle to also be really important. There are a lot of great pass rushers that our right tackles have to play. If Allen wants any time in the pocket next season, Buffalo will need to see a massive upgrade at that spot. 

 

Allen got hurt from a hit by a rusher that our RT let by. Isn’t that the whole point to having a solid LT, so they don’t get hurt. To me, RT is an underrated position as more teams look to improve their pass rushers. 

 

RT is important - nobody is saying it isn't. Nor is anyone saying the Bills don't need an upgrade there. All the starting positions in the NFL are important. But when you have picks particularly in the top 20 of the NFL Draft you should be using them to get the sorts of guys that don't become readily available in FA or through trade or later in the draft - Quarterbacks, solid blindside protectors, explosive pass rushers, #1 receivers, shut down corners.... or guys who are absolutely elite prospects at their positions (the aforementioned Nelson fits here).

 

Cordy had played left tackle at Georgia too - he was one of those in the Zack Martin / Forrest Lamp category. His ceiling was a good quality left tackle (which is what he became).  

[The Now Moment]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

RT is important - nobody is saying it isn't. Nor is anyone saying the Bills don't need an upgrade there. All the starting positions in the NFL are important. But when you have picks particularly in the top 20 of the NFL Draft you should be using them to get the sorts of guys that don't become readily available in FA or through trade or later in the draft - Quarterbacks, solid blindside protectors, explosive pass rushers, #1 receivers, shut down corners.... or guys who are absolutely elite prospects at their positions (the aforementioned Nelson fits here).

 

Cordy had played left tackle at Georgia too - he was one of those in the Zack Martin / Forrest Lamp category. His ceiling was a good quality left tackle (which is what he became).  

I just believe more teams have 2 pass rushing ends. That can disrupt a QBs play. If I want to maximize Allen’s in the pocket passing, then I’ll take a great RT in the first. It’s like you said with Nelson, you take a great prospect like that. 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo30 said:

I just believe more teams have 2 pass rushing ends. That can disrupt a QBs play. If I want to maximize Allen’s in the pocket passing, then I’ll take a great RT in the first. It’s like you said with Nelson, you take a great prospect like that. 

 

 

I struggle to imagine a Nelson level guy whose ceiling is as a RT and couldn't go on to play on the left but if that person did exist I'd consider drafting them in the 1st. I just doubt very much that they do.

[Da webster guy]

This is the BPA mystery for me.

 

Beane insists he's taking best player available, but how do you say a Dlineman will be a better player than an Olineman in the NFL?   

 

The answer is you can't.  Is Ed Oliver gonna be better than Williams the OT?   

 

My point is there has to be some element of need infused into each decision.   I'm hoping for a trade back, like tons of other teams that aren't taking qb's.