Fascinating about Josh Allen’s critics is they never played the position

[oldmanfan]

24 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

It would really help if all that happened. Again, he's super talented and he needs help. But to this point of the season, and even if we just isolate these last four games, Allen is still near the bottom of the NFL in whatever version of adjusted completion percentage you want to use. Even accounting for the drops, and the throwaways, and the fact he throws downfield more often. He's still much less accurate than most everyone else, at least statistically. It's a fact.

You also continually demonstrate you do not understand what the term accurate means.

[78thealltimegreat]

4 minutes ago, row_33 said:

I can’t make a comment on music or art or large skyscrapers or pro athletes?

 

the OP violates this every hour of the day with judgments 

Did you read my post the National Media who covers the NFL I swear stop eating paint chips 

[formerlyofCtown]

30 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

But .... do your ex-QB commenters ever have anything critical to say about any NFL QB?  Sure, they may be critical of a bad decision here, a poor throw there, etc., but when did a Steve Young or even a Tony Romo ever say of an NFL rookie, "I just don't think this guy has what it takes to make it in this league." Answer: never. It's not the way they see the world, or maybe they're just too used to censoring their thoughts. Example: which former QB ever said that EJ Manuel will never make it as an NFL starter?

I dont know Ill have to pay more attention to that.  Im pretty sure they have.

I imagine they all felt Peterman should remain the Bills starter.

Edited December 18, 2018 by formerlyofCtown

[VW82]

20 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Actually he's not.  And I and others have explained numerous things the fallacy of completion percentage as a measure of accuracy.  But you refuse to accept this because it interferes with your bias that he's bad.  

 

No one's saying it's a perfect measure of accuracy. It's still valuable along with Yards, YPA, QB rating, and a bunch of other statistical measurements so we can get a more complete statistical profile of the player for the purposes of comparison. By adjusting for things like drops and throwaways we get even better representations. Either way, he's grading out poorly against his peers. You can question the rubric all you want, but it's the best one we've got. 

 

I'm not even saying he's bad. He was bad. These last four weeks he's been everything from amazing to underwhelming to exciting and everything in between, and the stats back that up.     

Edited December 18, 2018 by VW82

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, nedboy7 said:

 

Yes call me a child. You know exactly what I mean buddy. 

Do tell

41 minutes ago, BlueandRed said:

Let’s not put the horse before the Carriage.  

 

Yes. We are excited and what he is showing with no talent help around him. 

 

He needs more time to prove he is a franchise qb. 

 

Id say, be patient until end of next year. The negativity should end then, if he is the real deal. 

When ppl go as far south as some have on the opinion.....your not gonna see a lot of "boy was I wrong" posts.....as much as I respect them.....

 

For some reason ppl dont want to be wrong on the internet...even if what they were wrong about actually benefits their team.   The first time Josh throws a bad pass (and he will throw them....just like EVERY NFL qb....you will hear some of our chosen internet few scurry out of the woodwork like ***** roaches......

 

And as fast as they came....if Josh makes a play....lights it up.....they will be nowhere to be scene

 

 

[Bing Bong]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

(But I think we have plenty of Josh threads already.) 

Omg this board is nothing but right now.

[Thurman#1]

7 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If you look at Josh’s biggest critics the ones in the media who are most vocal in their dislike of him they are non qbs or people who have never played the game and are just analytics guys..but most of his biggest supporters Dilfer, Miller, Simms, Quinn, Romo etc..are guys who played the position just find interesting that a kid with the insane skill set is this polarizing 

 

 

 

Fascinating thing is that all but nobody has played the position. So of course the critics are mostly guys who haven't played it. So are most of his biggest supporters and most of the more neutral folks besides.

 

Romo, Quinn and Miller aren't supporters. They're guys saying he's doing OK right now for where he is but that he has a long way to go.

 

As to your main point, yeah, ex-QBs probably are a bit more likely to be kind to a QB, and especially one so young. If you listened to those QBs they probably shade positive on Tyrod too.

 

5 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Do tell

When ppl go as far south as some have on the opinion.....your not gonna see a lot of "boy was I wrong" posts.....as much as I respect them.....

 

For some reason ppl dont want to be wrong on the internet...even if what they were wrong about actually benefits their team.   The first time Josh throws a bad pass (and he will throw them....just like EVERY NFL qb....you will hear some of our chosen internet few scurry out of the woodwork like ***** roaches......

 

And as fast as they came....if Josh makes a play....lights it up.....they will be nowhere to be scene

 

 

 

Yeah, sure, there are a few like that.

 

And probably an awful lot more, especially here in Buffalo, who are just the opposite, howling at the first good play and disappearing when things don't go well.

 

The majority understand, though. It's too early to know.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Statistics win MVP, ROY and things of that nature.  They dont win Championships.  For example you could argue that the Lions out played us statistically but who got the W..

 

 

 

Statistics don't win championships. But has there ever been a team that won a championship with bad statistics?

 

Statistics reflect what happens. Good teams win championships, and they have good stats.

 

Did the Lions outplay us statistically? Net offensive yards are almost exactly equal, 313 yards vs. 312, though the Lions did it on fewer plays. Can we say they outplayed us on offense? OK. Believe it or not they had far more penalty yards against them than we did, 4 for 81 vs. our 3 for 20. That's unusual and maybe encouraging for us. You could say both defenses were effective overall. Did they outplay us a bit? But how about special teams? The stats show Detroit as 0/1 on field goals. And 1/2 on extra points. That's pretty horrible, and was actually the difference on the day.

 

And on those days when you would say that statistics show that the better team lost, it's likely that watching the game would show the same thing. Sometimes one team gets good bounces and the stats will show that.

 

Where are the championship teams with bad stats? There are a few teams that show poor stats for one unit or sub-unit, like the passing offense of the 2000 Ravens, but that just reflects reality. The Ravens passing offense really was pretty bad. But their defense was one of the all-time greatest and their run game was damn good too. Generally the stats just reflect what happened.

[formerlyofCtown]

12 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Statistics don't win championships. But has there ever been a team that won a championship with bad statistics?

 

Statistics reflect what happens. Good teams win championships, and they have good stats.

 

Did the Lions outplay us statistically? Net offensive yards are almost exactly equal, 313 yards vs. 312, though the Lions did it on fewer plays. Can we say they outplayed us on offense? OK. Believe it or not they had far more penalty yards against them than we did, 4 for 81 vs. our 3 for 20. That's unusual and maybe encouraging for us. You could say both defenses were effective overall. Did they outplay us a bit? But how about special teams? The stats show Detroit as 0/1 on field goals. And 1/2 on extra points. That's pretty horrible, and was actually the difference on the day.

 

And on those days when you would say that statistics show that the better team lost, it's likely that watching the game would show the same thing. Sometimes one team gets good bounces and the stats will show that.

 

Where are the championship teams with bad stats? There are a few teams that show poor stats for one unit or sub-unit, like the passing offense of the 2000 Ravens, but that just reflects reality. The Ravens passing offense really was pretty bad. But their defense was one of the all-time greatest and their run game was damn good too. Generally the stats just reflect what happened.

Dont think I said teams win championships with bad statistics now did I and why dont you take a look at the all sacred completion percentage of their QB as the context of this whole confersation is Josh Allen or how about we look at their RBs yards per carry as we are talking about individual statistics and not team statistics.  Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

Edited December 18, 2018 by formerlyofCtown

[row_33]

6 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

 

I think he’s illustrating the difference between an informed opinion and an uninformed opinion.  He makes a valid point

 

You agree so it’s valid....

 

so only exQBs can make a statement?

 

interesting little Utopia you have there

 

[BullBuchanan]

You don't need to play the position to be a critic or perform good analysis. In fact it's kind of irrelevant.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

28 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You don't need to play the position to be a critic or perform good analysis. In fact it's kind of irrelevant.

 

Orly

[WhyteDwarf]

49 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

You don't need to play the position to be a critic or perform good analysis. In fact it's kind of irrelevant.

 

Agreed.  In fact, most of the color analysts who are ex players are very terrible at analysis. For some reason it is assumed that they will be good at it, but they're usually not.  For every 1 Romo you get 100 Tasker's.

Edited December 18, 2018 by WhyteDwarf

[Phil The Thrill]

53 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

You agree so it’s valid....

 

so only exQBs can make a statement?

 

interesting little Utopia you have there

 

 

Wrong...just saying that they have a deeper understanding of what is required to successfully play the position on many levels.

 

The Ledyard’s or Barnwell’s of the world do not.  FACT

[BullBuchanan]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Orly

How many films did Roger Ebert direct? How many former chefs hand out Michelin Stars?

Most good critics come from a background that emphasizes consumption of a tremendous amount of content, and deduction skills to properly analyze what they consumed. All Chris Collinsworth knows is "back when I was a wide receiver". 

[TigerJ]

8 hours ago, WhyteDwarf said:

It might have something to do with the last 20 years of trash at the position. Also might have to do with your age.

I'm pretty optimistic and I've been a Bills fan since OJ Simpson was drafted back when I was in high school.  Until he actually is a franchise QB, I'm not ready to say he will be, but I like most of what I'm seeing.

[WhyteDwarf]

Just now, TigerJ said:

I'm pretty optimistic and I've been a Bills fan since OJ Simpson was drafted back when I was in high school.  Until he actually is a franchise QB, I'm not ready to say he will be, but I like most of what I'm seeing.

 

Wow, congratz on being a Bills fan so long.  Hopefully you get to see a winning organization sometime soon.  I lucked out with the 90's Bills, I just started to watch when Kelly got off that plane, mainly because my older brother told me it was time to start paying attention to the Bills.

[Artem Lipatov]

Troy Aikman criticized Josh Allen for inacuracy during pre-draft assesment. I think Buffalo Bills fans must remember this QB. But he also told Rosen could be ready starter and day one. Not looks like he's right. Hope Allen'll prove Aikman's wrong.

Edited December 18, 2018 by Artem Lipatov

[WhyteDwarf]

1 minute ago, Artem Lipatov said:

Troy Aikman criticized Josh Allen. I think Buffalo Bills fans must remember this QB

 

Aikman is usually terrible to listen too, but his accuracy criticisms of Allen were right on target.  The burden of proof is on Allen that he is not inaccurate, not on Aikman.

[JaCrispy]

9 hours ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

If you look at Josh’s biggest critics the ones in the media who are most vocal in their dislike of him they are non qbs or people who have never played the game and are just analytics guys..but most of his biggest supporters Dilfer, Miller, Simms, Quinn, Romo etc..are guys who played the position just find interesting that a kid with the insane skill set is this polarizing 

It’s easy to be a critic of Allen because you don’t have to do any work- it’s all there in the numbers...it’s actually harder to be optimistic about his future success when you take emotion out of it, and just based on the numbers.