THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Bills Still Have A Lot to Work On

[GRHater69]

Even the ESPN MNF pregame show gave Clay a "C'mon Man" for missing that catch. Can;t throw Allen under the bus for that.

 

And I'm not an apologist, I wanted Rosen back in April, but now I'm starting to think we mad a good choice.

 

I'd like to see a breakdown not of the penalties, but who is getting flagged the most on the team. Odds are a lot of those calls are going against 1st or 2nd year players. That's on coaching to stop it.

 

 

 

 

[1st Ammendment NoMas]

1 hour ago, westside said:

I can't think of any Qb who could have made that throw besides Allen. 

Mahomes

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, Clay could have caught that ball to win the game, and I’m sure he said he should have caught it.   He’s caught balls like that before.   But that’s beside the point; that play was all on Allen.  Yes, he made an outstanding scramble to give himself time to make the throw – most QBs would have been sacked at some point on that play.   But then he turned into a rookie.  He had time – he’d run away from everyone, and he had plenty of time to get his body turned and his feet set, particularly important because he had been running left and now was throwing right.  And when he found Clay he could see that Clay was all alone with a lot of open space toward the sideline.   Allen had plenty of time to turn, set his feet and get the ball to Clay for an uncontested catch.  It was a long throw, to be sure – it traveled about 50 yards in the air, and to make it an easy catch for Clay it needed to go 55 maybe 60 yards.  Allen, properly set, can make that throw all day.  

 

I think Allen let the moment beat him.   He knew he had it, but he didn’t have his emotions sufficiently under control to stop and make the play he should have.  Brady, Brees and Rodgers would have made it.  It was a rookie mistake.  It cost the Bills the game, and he knows it. 

 

I can't put that all on Allen.  Clay could have adjusted better to the throw, as well.

 

Still, to your point, you're correct that Allen had time to set his feet and collect himself and didn't. I noted a similar thing on the Hail Mary play at the end of the 1st half.  Allen had bought himself a buttload of space.  He could have stopped, set his feet, and thrown a zinger to Foster in the end zone.  Instead he outran his OLman back into the range of two defenders, and failed to collect himself and set properly.  Instead of a the laser we know he could have thrown, he launched a rainbow heave that gave the defense plenty of time to adjust to it in the air and outplay Foster for position.

 

Adjust to the ball in the air, like our big-money TE could (in theory) have done a bit better.

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Overall, i disagree with your assessment here, Shaw66, though I love your takes. This may not be popular, but I firmly believe Josh was tired. Literally. The Houdini escape you saw was at least the 6th time he had to perform the feat in the game, to say nothing of running for approximately 1000 yrds through the course of the game and throwing at least 650 yrds including incompletions. Yes, he managed to wriggle free and appeared to have enough time to stop and set his feet but it was all happening very fast, the clock read 00:00 and he found a guy open. There’s a reason he trusts his arm strength, even though he was physically drained. It had enough mustard to get it to open open area near the open receiver. Nothing more could reasonably be expected.

 

Josh likely was tired.  But if he really wants to be The Man, Magical Franchise Man, the QB who wins the dance for us, he has got to take it to heart and drill drill drill until resetting his feet becomes second nature and he does it when he's tired, when he's cold, when he's wriggled free.

 

It doesn't really take more time to set properly and throw than to just throw.  It's simply a matter of the muscle memory being there.

 

That said, I also disagree with Shaw putting that all on Allen.  Clay needs to haul that one in.

[Beast]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Disagree.  Clay had plenty of room to the sideline - Allen could have led Clay there - he was already running in that direction, and still not have forced Clay to make a fancy two-toes-inside-the-line.   Hell, he could have just put more air under the throw he DID make, so Clay would have had more time to get there.   There was plenty of room.   

 

And Allen agrees.   He said the ball didn't come out of his hand correctly, something went wrong.  The clear implication was that he had a much better place to put the ball than he did.  

Brady never would have gotten there.  Brees maybe.   But I was talking just about the throw, not the scramble.   Any of those guys who got there and had the time to set his feet would definitely have made the throw.  It was 50 yards in the air, and they all can throw it at least that far.   All that was needed was a fly ball for the receiver to settle under.   

 

What in hell does the ball coming out of his hand bad have to do with the decision?

 

Answer: NOTHING

[Augie]

2 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Allen stops running and takes the time to set, Clay very well could have been covered by the time the ball got there.

 

No issue with Allen at all on that play.

 

 

Partially true, IMO. he pulled up, but didn’t plant and step into it. He was still drifting a little left as I recall. But still an amazing toss after what resembled dizzy bat. That’s on Clay to catch it for the win. 

 

Having said that, the win matters to me less than Josh showing progress. I hope the arrow continues to point up, but there will be some bumps in the road. 

[TroutDog]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Look, I don't disagree about Clay having to catch the ball.   He should have caught it, and BillsRDue said something I hadn't thought of, which was how slow Clay reacted to the ball.  If he'd broken on it better, it would have been an easier catch for him.  But Clay isn't the most athletic guy.   He isn't a Kelce or a Graham or even a Gates.   He's a good solid tight end, less than we hoped he'd be when acquired.   

 

Allen is going to be throwing his entire career to guys who aren't ideal athletes at their position.   Not every wideout, tight end, running back and blocking back is going to be the best guy in the league.   It's completely clear listening to Allen that he didn't put that ball where he wanted it.  

 

I'm not trying to place blame for the loss.   I'm looking at the QB who can take us to the promised land, and he has to be better than than he was on the last play.   I think he will be.   He just needed to calm down.  

That was an intensely challenging play after spinning twice and being chased by three very large and strong men intent on slamming him. 

 

In in my opinion, it was Clay’s job to adjust. Allen held up his end of the bargain. Can things be better? When can’t they? But that was a good enough pass to catch. 

 

Thank you for your write-up. 

[Troll Toll]

I disagree on both the Foster throw and the Clay throw.

 

The one to Foster he saw late, but made the throw look a lot easier than it was. I’m not sure any other QB could have hit Foster in stride, recognizing him at the point Josh did, let alone overthrow him. Any other QB would have to really wind up and step into the throw to have a prayer. Josh made it look like an easy throw because of his ridiculous arm. Foster was far enough downfield by the time Josh saw him that I don’t think other QBs would have even attempted the throw. Josh got that thing off fast and didn’t even really step into it, just utterly ridiculous and impressive.

 

The Clay throw was as good as you can ask for, if he set his feet the defender in the middle of the endzone would have seen where he was going and made a play on it. Running left and throwing right is tough. Josh got a bad break that it didn’t come out cleanly. His running and vision on that play (to find Clay) were superb.

[JPP]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

In a vacuum for sure. I mean, I can chuck a football with a reasonable spiral 50 yards. Probably a lot of people can, NFL QB or no. But after being pretty much the entire offense for the whole game, running and throwing, then having to make that scramble and toss back across his body moving left throwing right, under duress...I'm saying only Cam Newton and maybe Aaron Rodgers get the ball into Clay's hands there. I don't know if a better throw is reasonable to expect in that particular situation.

Good point......Allen did indeed scramble like crazy way way back field and than made a hard throw (even for a guy who sometimes even overthrows downfield given the strength of his arm)......cant remember a situation for Brees when he has been taken out of a pocket so much as this one......anyways eventhough he is rookie that last 2 starts have been very encouraging......I like our future QB!  Lets just give this kid a line and some competant WR's!

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Overall, i disagree with your assessment here, Shaw66, though I love your takes. This may not be popular, but I firmly believe Josh was tired. Literally. The Houdini escape you saw was at least the 6th time he had to perform the feat in the game, to say nothing of running for approximately 1000 yrds through the course of the game and throwing at least 650 yrds including incompletions. Yes, he managed to wriggle free and appeared to have enough time to stop and set his feet but it was all happening very fast, the clock read 00:00 and he found a guy open. There’s a reason he trusts his arm strength, even though he was physically drained. It had enough mustard to get it to open open area near the open receiver. Nothing more could reasonably be expected.

After I wrote this I saw his postgame interview, and he did in fact say he was tired.   I'm sure that's part of the reason, maybe even the sole reason, his throw was so ugly.  It was uglier by a factor of 3 than any other throw we've seen him make.   Still, if he was tired, he has to make a better throw.  

2 hours ago, westside said:

He was running for his life, threw the ball 60 yards in the air across his body to the other side of the field. 

The question isn't about Allen. The question is why was Clay eight yards deep in the endzone when his Qb was running for his life back there. He should be going towards Allen. 

I can't think of any Qb who could have made that throw besides Allen. 

He wasn't running for his life.   He had been running for his life, but he had escaped.   He had plenty of room.   He threw it across his body because he didn't use the time he had to get his body set, and he threw it 50 yards, not 60 yards.  

 

You ask a good question about Clay.  What WAS he doing back there.   And again, he should have caught it anyway.  But Allen should have thrown it better.   I don't care about Clay - he won't be here in three years.   But Allen will be, and I want him winning ball games for the Bills.  

[Jay_Fixit]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

After I wrote this I saw his postgame interview, and he did in fact say he was tired.   I'm sure that's part of the reason, maybe even the sole reason, his throw was so ugly.  It was uglier by a factor of 3 than any other throw we've seen him make.   Still, if he was tired, he has to make a better throw.  

And despite that, that play is 95% on NFL receiving tight end Charles Clay to make.

 

Saying it was on Allen is obtuse.

[JPP]

IMO......just saying was a very wabbly throw but it did meet the target.....maybe clay was too far out to begin with?  But it did hit his hands with no defenders anywhere around.....should of pulled it in.....plays like this happen......will only get better i believe.

[GoBills808]

I put most of the blame on Clay...if he had caught it I wouldn't have been saying 'Amazing he caught that crap throw!', I would have been all like 'OMG what a throw from Allen' so I totes think Clay is mostly to blame. 

[WhoTom]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

He wasn't running for his life.   He had been running for his life, but he had escaped.   He had plenty of room. 

 

We know he had plenty of room because we're looking at the bird's eye view. After all that running around, did HE know there wasn't someone right behind him?

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, WhoTom said:

We know he had plenty of room because we're looking at the bird's eye view. After all that running around, did HE know there wasn't someone right behind him?

 

It's a sense the best QB seem to develop.  Allen is developing a very nice ability to step up and juke in the pocket to avoid defenders, so I think he can develop this.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I can't put that all on Allen.  Clay could have adjusted better to the throw, as well.

 

Still, to your point, you're correct that Allen had time to set his feet and collect himself and didn't. I noted a similar thing on the Hail Mary play at the end of the 1st half.  Allen had bought himself a buttload of space.  He could have stopped, set his feet, and thrown a zinger to Foster in the end zone.  Instead he outran his OLman back into the range of two defenders, and failed to collect himself and set properly.  Instead of a the laser we know he could have thrown, he launched a rainbow heave that gave the defense plenty of time to adjust to it in the air and outplay Foster for position.

 

Adjust to the ball in the air, like our big-money TE could (in theory) have done a bit better.

 

Josh likely was tired.  But if he really wants to be The Man, Magical Franchise Man, the QB who wins the dance for us, he has got to take it to heart and drill drill drill until resetting his feet becomes second nature and he does it when he's tired, when he's cold, when he's wriggled free.

 

It doesn't really take more time to set properly and throw than to just throw.  It's simply a matter of the muscle memory being there.

 

That said, I also disagree with Shaw putting that all on Allen.  Clay needs to haul that one in.

I didn't put it all on Allen.  This is about the third or fourth time I've said that.  A quality NFL receiver catches that ball. 

 

I don't care about Clay.  As I said, all that matter is the QB, and Allen has to learn to do exactly what you described   He has to learn that when he has time, he has to relax and use the time to put himself in position to throw.   He was tired and put everything he had into it, which probably explains why the throw was so ugly.  

 

For me, right now it's all about the future.   I want Allen to be a HOF QB and he looks like one.   Except a HOF QB wins that game with a good throw.  

 

Yes, Clay should have caught it.   Everything about how he reacted to the ball was wrong, and even so a guy with reliable hands would have caught it.  He didn't catch it.   Yes, if you care about the outcome of the game, maybe he was the goat.   I don't care about Clay.   He isn't going to improve, and he isn't going to be on the team in a few months or a year or two.  Clay's not going to win any Super Bowls for the Bills.  He could be on a Super Bowl winning team, but he isn't going to win it.   Allen is, if he can learn things about how to settle down and make a good throw when he has time.   

 

[Augie]

Ohhhhh, where is the clip of the QB throwing the ball in the wrong direction? I’m just glad we didn’t see THAT! 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

29 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

After I wrote this I saw his postgame interview, and he did in fact say he was tired.   I'm sure that's part of the reason, maybe even the sole reason, his throw was so ugly.  It was uglier by a factor of 3 than any other throw we've seen him make.   Still, if he was tired, he has to make a better throw. 

 

Allen needs to not be so tired at the end of the game by relying more on his teammates and less on himself, which I think will come when he develops more confidence in his abilities to make those off-platform throws. 

 

Example: 3rd and 3 from the Bills 14.  Allen scrambles for 17 yds.  Here's a screenshot just as Allen crosses the LOS.  That's Shady with his hand signalling at the 34 yd line.

Allen made it to the 31 yd line.  If he trusted himself to make that throw and Shady to catch it, there's a chance Shady makes his guy miss and gets long yards - but even if he doesn't, it moves the sticks, gets them a new set of downs and Allen is less tired at the end of the game.

I don't post this to pick on Allen - he made a great play with a neat slide at the end - it's more to agree with Shaw66' basic premise that Allen and the Bills still have a lot of work to do, even though I disagree with him about putting that final throw all on Allen.

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's a sense the best QB seem to develop.  Allen is developing a very nice ability to step up and juke in the pocket to avoid defenders, so I think he can develop this.

Absolutely.   He has shown great pocket awareness, and I think he certainly can know whether people are around him.   

 

Did anyone listen to McDermott's press conference yesterday?   For a loss, he was amazingly positive about Allen.  He kept saying that Allen has grown, and he can do this and do that.   I think we're looking at a star.   I don't think there's anything holding him back.   

[DuckyBoys]

3 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

Overall, i disagree with your assessment here, Shaw66, though I love your takes. This may not be popular, but I firmly believe Josh was tired. Literally. The Houdini escape you saw was at least the 6th time he had to perform the feat in the game, to say nothing of running for approximately 1000 yrds through the course of the game and throwing at least 650 yrds including incompletions. Yes, he managed to wriggle free and appeared to have enough time to stop and set his feet but it was all happening very fast, the clock read 00:00 and he found a guy open. There’s a reason he trusts his arm strength, even though he was physically drained. It had enough mustard to get it to open open area near the open receiver. Nothing more could reasonably be expected.

No doubt he was gassed,  Unlike a rb or wr after a long run Allen didnt get to come out and get air. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I didn't put it all on Allen.

 

Explanation accepted.

 

You said "that play was all on Allen."  Perhaps that is what folks (including myself) are interpreting as putting it all on Allen.