PFF's view so far

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[DCOrange]

On 9/25/2018 at 9:03 AM, DCOrange said:

 

Update after Week 3:

 

Josh Allen - 60.5 (28 out of 33)

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 78.0 (5 out of 57)
2. John Miller - 64.8 (25 out of 72)
3. LeSean McCoy - 63.0 (33 out of 57)
4. Jordan Mills - 62.3 (43 out of 72)
5. Dion Dawkins - 61.1 (45 out of 72)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Marcus Murphy - 45.8 (57 out of 57)
2. Ryan Groy - 42.3 (36 out of 36)
3. Robert Foster - 50.7 (103 out of 109)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 52.9 (97 out of 109)
5. Zay Jones - 53.6 (94 out of 109)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 90.8 (4 out of 101)
2. Jerry Hughes - 82.8 (8 out of 101)
3. Micah Hyde 79.4 (10 out of 81)
4. Matt Milano - 77.9 (15 out of 86)
5. Harrison Phillips - 74.9 (30 out of 113)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 53.4 (58 out of 86)
2. Taron Johnson - 56.2 (91 out of 105)
3. Rafael Bush - 56.3 (89 out of 105)
4. Phillip Gaines - 60.5 (71 out of 105)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 61.8 (64 out of 101)

 

Update after Week 4 (underlined names are names that were added this week):

 

Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34, only ahead of Tyrod and Bradford, who have been benched)

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 76.0 (5 out of 57)
2. Dion Dawkins - 66.3 (30 out of 70)
3. LeSean McCoy - 65.0 (31 out of 58)
4. Jordan Mills - 62.0 (45 out of 70)
5. John Miller - 60.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Ryan Groy - 42.3 (36 out of 36)
2. Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34)
3. Robert Foster - 50.1 (108 out of 113)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 51.7 (105 out of 113)
5. Andre Holmes - 53.2 (101 out of 113)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 89.8 (4 out of 97)
2. Micah Hyde 77.7 (14 out of 83)
3. Ryan Lewis - 76.1 (12 out of 108)
4. Jerry Hughes - 75.5 (18 out of 97)
5. Matt Milano - 71.0 (17 out of 82)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 53.0 (58 out of 82)
2. Rafael Bush - 58.1 (65 out of 83)
3. Star Lotulelei - 60.4 (79 out of 105)
4. Phillip Gaines - 60.5 (69 out of 108)
5. Trent Murphy - 61.3 (64 out of 97)

[Clyde Smith]

Sheesh! Our receivers suuccks!

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[dave mcbride]

22 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

Update after Week 4 (underlined names are names that were added this week):

 

Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34, only ahead of Tyrod and Bradford, who have been benched)

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 76.0 (5 out of 57)
2. Dion Dawkins - 66.3 (30 out of 70)
3. LeSean McCoy - 65.0 (31 out of 58)
4. Jordan Mills - 62.0 (45 out of 70)
5. John Miller - 60.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Ryan Groy - 42.3 (36 out of 36)
2. Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34)
3. Robert Foster - 50.1 (108 out of 113)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 51.7 (105 out of 113)
5. Andre Holmes - 53.2 (101 out of 113)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 89.8 (4 out of 97)
2. Micah Hyde 77.7 (14 out of 83)
3. Ryan Lewis - 76.1 (12 out of 108)
4. Jerry Hughes - 75.5 (18 out of 97)
5. Matt Milano - 71.0 (17 out of 82)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 53.0 (58 out of 82)
2. Rafael Bush - 58.1 (65 out of 83)
3. Star Lotulelei - 60.4 (79 out of 105)
4. Phillip Gaines - 60.5 (69 out of 108)
5. Trent Murphy - 61.3 (64 out of 97)

Chris Ivory is averaging 2.6 ypc. Is this right? Are they factoring in no room to run?

[jr1]

PFF doesn't understand Star's role in the defense

[Rigotz]

Interesting to see Edmunds consistently ranked the worst player on defense. 

That just doesn't seem right... sure he's made some bad reads and played tentative at times, but is he really worse than Rafael Bush and Phillip Gaines?

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

Chris Ivory is averaging 2.6 ypc. Is this right? Are they factoring in no room to run?

 

Looking at NextGenStats.com:

 

Ivory ranks #1 in efficiency (basically measures how much of a north-south runner you are). He faces 8+ men in the box on 38.71% of his carries, which is the 3rd highest in the league. I imagine those two things help. He's rated the 9th best rusher by PFF and the 13th best receiver out of the backfield.

6 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

Interesting to see Edmunds consistently ranked the worst player on defense. 

That just doesn't seem right... sure he's made some bad reads and played tentative at times, but is he really worse than Rafael Bush and Phillip Gaines?

The Chargers game is weighing him down big time right now. He's still not playing very well from game to game, but that Chargers game I think he received the lowest possible grade from PFF, so I imagine his grade will likely improve as the season goes on and that game hopefully becomes a blip on the radar.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, DCOrange said:

 

Looking at NextGenStats.com:

 

Ivory ranks #1 in efficiency (basically measures how much of a north-south runner you are). He faces 8+ men in the box on 38.71% of his carries, which is the 3rd highest in the league. I imagine those two things help. He's rated the 9th best rusher by PFF and the 13th best receiver out of the backfield.

 

Good stuff; thanks. I think he's looked fine even though the production isn't there. Still, 2.6 is really low. It's not necessarily his fault though ...

[nedboy7]

Let’s see the PFF grade on the coaches. Cause the player ratings seem quite appropriate.  

[billsfan89]

4 hours ago, jr1 said:

PFF doesn't understand Star's role in the defense

 

PFF might actually not. That's not a knock on PFF but mainly the limitations of football analytics. PFF does not know what Star is supposed to do within the scheme. PFF grades a lot of their D-line metrics based off of getting past the line of scrimmage. Star shuffling along the line and trying to occupy a gap might seem like the is getting taken out of a play. But the scheme might have called for clearing the way for a linebacker. I don't think Star is doing all that well but I don't think he is doing bad either. Star is a space eater who attacks blockers however he lacks the gravity that a really dominant space eater commands. He certainly is overpaid. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

31 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

PFF might actually not. That's not a knock on PFF but mainly the limitations of football analytics. PFF does not know what Star is supposed to do within the scheme. PFF grades a lot of their D-line metrics based off of getting past the line of scrimmage. Star shuffling along the line and trying to occupy a gap might seem like the is getting taken out of a play. But the scheme might have called for clearing the way for a linebacker. I don't think Star is doing all that well but I don't think he is doing bad either. Star is a space eater who attacks blockers however he lacks the gravity that a really dominant space eater commands. He certainly is overpaid. 

Sometimes I think "space eater" is code for "bad player" 

[billsfan89]

35 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said:

Sometimes I think "space eater" is code for "bad player" 

 

You are a prisoner of the moment. Lots of people are calling Star a space eater and a lot of people think Star is having little to no impact so you are blending the term to think that people are just using the term to cover for someone's bad play. Watch the difference in the Bills run defense last year when "Space Eater" Darues was there vs. when he left. The Bills had a lot of bad years defending the run when they didn't have a capable space eater after Pat Williams left. The term is basically a catch all for a DT that is a good run defender. A guy like Snacks Harrison is a great space eater who holds the line consistently against double teams and makes it very difficult for a team to run up the middle. 

 

To look at Star's impact I think you have to take a look at how effective the Bills rushing defense is. I think the Bills run defense this season with Star being a space eater has been so so. The team has given up 3.2, 4.2, 2.3, and 4.4 yards per carry in their 4 games. That's not bad but not great either. But the term isn't code for bad player it is more so trying to describe a role a player is performing that might not results in defensive stats. 

[PlayoffsPlease]

2 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

You are a prisoner of the moment. Lots of people are calling Star a space eater and a lot of people think Star is having little to no impact so you are blending the term to think that people are just using the term to cover for someone's bad play. Watch the difference in the Bills run defense last year when "Space Eater" Darues was there vs. when he left. The Bills had a lot of bad years defending the run when they didn't have a capable space eater after Pat Williams left. The term is basically a catch all for a DT that is a good run defender. A guy like Snacks Harrison is a great space eater who holds the line consistently against double teams and makes it very difficult for a team to run up the middle. 

 

To look at Star's impact I think you have to take a look at how effective the Bills rushing defense is. I think the Bills run defense this season with Star being a space eater has been so so. The team has given up 3.2, 4.2, 2.3, and 4.4 yards per carry in their 4 games. That's not bad but not great either. But the term isn't code for bad player it is more so trying to describe a role a player is performing that might not results in defensive stats. 

Please look up the word "sometimes" in Websters.  That will help clarify the point from my previous post. 

[billsfan89]

Just now, PlayoffsPlease said:

Please look up the word "sometimes" in Websters.  That will help clarify the point from my previous post. 

 

Haha, I totally missed that, just got back from a wisdom tooth pull at the dentist barely able to think at the moment. 

[MJS]

7 hours ago, DCOrange said:

The Chargers game is weighing him down big time right now. He's still not playing very well from game to game, but that Chargers game I think he received the lowest possible grade from PFF, so I imagine his grade will likely improve as the season goes on and that game hopefully becomes a blip on the radar.

 

It would be interesting to see all of the individual game grades independently from each other.

[DCOrange]

10 hours ago, MJS said:

 

It would be interesting to see all of the individual game grades independently from each other.

 

I've been tracking Allen and Edmunds the best that I can, but you have to pay like $150 for the game-by-game scores and I just pay for the cheapest PFF subscription. The scores appear to be adjusted each week, so it makes it difficult to track. For example, players are scored on a 0-100 scale, but after Week 3, to get to Tremaine Edmunds' updated rating, he would have needed to have a negative score in Week 2, so therefore his score from Week 1 must have been adjusted after the fact (PFF had publicly posted their Week 1 and Week 3 grade, so I could piece together what the Week 2 grade should have been based on that).

[MJS]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

I've been tracking Allen and Edmunds the best that I can, but you have to pay like $150 for the game-by-game scores and I just pay for the cheapest PFF subscription. The scores appear to be adjusted each week, so it makes it difficult to track. For example, players are scored on a 0-100 scale, but after Week 3, to get to Tremaine Edmunds' updated rating, he would have needed to have a negative score in Week 2, so therefore his score from Week 1 must have been adjusted after the fact (PFF had publicly posted their Week 1 and Week 3 grade, so I could piece together what the Week 2 grade should have been based on that).

 

Yeah. Definitely not worth paying a bunch of money for. It just surprised me that Tremaine is still so low, because he has made a lot of good plays, although he has definitely had his rookie moments.

[DCOrange]

On 10/1/2018 at 2:35 PM, DCOrange said:

 

Update after Week 4 (underlined names are names that were added this week):

 

Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34, only ahead of Tyrod and Bradford, who have been benched)

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 76.0 (5 out of 57)
2. Dion Dawkins - 66.3 (30 out of 70)
3. LeSean McCoy - 65.0 (31 out of 58)
4. Jordan Mills - 62.0 (45 out of 70)
5. John Miller - 60.2 (40 out of 70)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Ryan Groy - 42.3 (36 out of 36)
2. Josh Allen - 46.9 (32 out of 34)
3. Robert Foster - 50.1 (108 out of 113)
4. Kelvin Benjamin - 51.7 (105 out of 113)
5. Andre Holmes - 53.2 (101 out of 113)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 89.8 (4 out of 97)
2. Micah Hyde 77.7 (14 out of 83)
3. Ryan Lewis - 76.1 (12 out of 108)
4. Jerry Hughes - 75.5 (18 out of 97)
5. Matt Milano - 71.0 (17 out of 82)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Tremaine Edmunds - 53.0 (58 out of 82)
2. Rafael Bush - 58.1 (65 out of 83)
3. Star Lotulelei - 60.4 (79 out of 105)
4. Phillip Gaines - 60.5 (69 out of 108)
5. Trent Murphy - 61.3 (64 out of 97)

 

Update after Week 5 (underlined names are names that were added this week):

 

Quick Summary:

Vlad Ducasse enters the bottom 5 offense for the first time this year and is now ranked as one of the worst guards in the NFL.

Taron Johnson debuts in the top 5 defense after his big INT this week.

Jordan Phillips is nearly the lowest rated DT in the NFL, though I'm guessing this is mainly based upon how he played in Miami but I'm not entirely sure.

Eddie Yarbrough appears in the bottom 5 defense.

A slight uptick for Josh Allen, but he's still the lowest rated starting QB in the league.

A slight downtick for Edmunds as his struggles have continued (according to PFF).

Star Lotulelei drops another 20 spots in the DT rankings, down to #99 out of 110 that are ranked.

 

Top 5 Offense:

1. Chris Ivory - 79.0 (3 out of 56)
2. LeSean McCoy - 68.1 (24 out of 56)
3. Dion Dawkins - 64.7 (39 out of 73)
4. John Miller - 62.5 (34 out of 71)
5. Jordan Mills - 61.9 (45 out of 73)

Bottom 5 Offense (1 being the lowest):

1. Ryan Groy - 42.6 (34 out of 35)
2. Vlad Ducasse - 48.8 (67 out of 71)
3. Josh Allen - 48.9 (35 out of 37)
4. Andre Holmes - 50.9 (113 out of 117)
5. Robert Foster - 53.6 (108 out of 117)

Top 5 Defense:

1. Lorenzo Alexander - 89.0 (5 out of 100)
2. Jerry Hughes - 78.1 (13 out of 100)
3. Micah Hyde 77.7 (17 out of 84)
4. Matt Milano - 75.5 (11 out of 82)
5. Taron Johnson - 73.1 (16 out of 111)

Bottom 5 Defense:

1. Jordan Phillips - 44.3 (108 out of 110); I have no idea what Phillips was prior to coming to Buffalo
2. Tremaine Edmunds - 50.9 (66 out of 82)
3. Star Lotulelei - 56.8 (99 out of 110)
4. Rafael Bush - 58.1 (67 out of 84)
5. Eddie Yarbrough - 60.9 (68 out of 100)

[ctk232]

4 hours ago, DCOrange said:

 

Update after Week 5 (underlined names are names that were added this week):

 

Quick Summary:

Vlad Ducasse enters the bottom 5 offense for the first time this year and is now ranked as one of the worst guards in the NFL.

Taron Johnson debuts in the top 5 defense after his big INT this week.

Jordan Phillips is nearly the lowest rated DT in the NFL, though I'm guessing this is mainly based upon how he played in Miami but I'm not entirely sure.

Eddie Yarbrough appears in the bottom 5 defense.

A slight uptick for Josh Allen, but he's still the lowest rated starting QB in the league.

A slight downtick for Edmunds as his struggles have continued (according to PFF).

Star Lotulelei drops another 20 spots in the DT rankings, down to #99 out of 110 that are ranked.

 

Thanks for updating.

 

That's not news for Ducasse exactly. PFF had some unicorn grading on him the first few weeks in pass protect only. He's long been overdue for retirement for the league. Have a friends who's a Jets fan and he laughs every time I tell him Ducasse is still our starting Guard - he's seen the Ducasse byproduct way too much.

 

Still don't think PFF understands Star is playing one-tech and will not grade well in their "system." Interesting takes on Edmunds though - I get he's not mistake free at this point, but it would seem his progression has been positive regardless, even within grading parameters.