Jump to content
GunnerBill

PFF's view so far

Recommended Posts

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Lorenzo Alexander 86.3

1. 2. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. 3. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. 4. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. 5. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. 6. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

EDIT: Sorry - I missed Zo!!!!

 

Edited by GunnerBill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought groy  was good in previous years not sure what happened to him this year. Benjamin doesn’t seem like he tries half the time. Many people predicted the lack of impact lotulelei would have. Surprised about clay. And peterman, well lets just hope he doesn’t play again for us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very disappointed in Groy 

I am over Clay , play give kids 

Star oh my.  That’s 10 million they could have used on a of the o line 

proud of Kyle he is amazing 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, baskingridgebillsfan said:

Very disappointed in Groy 

I am over Clay , play give kids 

Star oh my.  That’s 10 million they could have used on a of the o line 

proud of Kyle he is amazing 

 

Maybe the worst haiku I've ever seen?  But I take your points.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 10
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, RyanTalbotBills said:

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

 

I'd certainly argue that White is hands down the best player on the field we have.  He really hasn't given up anything in two games.  But I guess since there are no flashy interceptions it doesn't count.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do those numbers even mean? Not being snarky.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Poyer had a rough game this week. If they weren't going after Edmund's, they were going after Poyer. I'd say he's taken a step back from last year when he was so effective. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Captain_Quint said:

I think Poyer had a rough game this week. If they weren't going after Edmund's, they were going after Poyer. I'd say he's taken a step back from last year when he was so effective. 

 

Agreed - he's been solid for us but Sunday was a rough outing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, NewEraBills said:

 

I'd certainly argue that White is hands down the best player on the field we have.  He really hasn't given up anything in two games.  But I guess since there are no flashy interceptions it doesn't count.

 

Teams throw away from him because the pickings are so much easier against whatever dud CB plays the other side.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

 

Can't be true Gunner,  many here say Milano shouldn't be on the field!!!!    ;);) 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Benjamin, Clay, Lotulililialekialalal.  All jokes. Always were

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, RyanTalbotBills said:

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

I agree. Alexander has been pretty good IMO.

Benjamin doesn’t seem like the same player who tried to play hurt last year. Contract year for him as well I think! Beane described KB as being a “fierce competitor “ when they traded for him too! Where is that?? Clearly he isn’t inspired or happy about something!!

 

Groy is struggling for sure but Star doesn’t seem that bad at least from what I’ve seen?

Where is Edmunds ranked?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

 

I think the "offensive line" should be one of the bottom 5... Just as a whole.

 

53 minutes ago, RyanTalbotBills said:

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

 

It's a combination of avoiding Tre and the fact that we have a high school level talent at the cb opposite him.

Not a knock on the, just that it's probably a combination of the two.

Jets ran into this problem with revis in his prime.

The corner opposite revis was picked on all day long, every game.

If they are subpar, then it winds up being a tough day over there.

 

Tre is really really good.

Getting a better corner opposite him is very important.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

What do those numbers even mean? Not being snarky.

 

Their rankings are proprietary, like ESPN’s total QBR. 

 

They are based at their core on a subjective play by play review of every player and play by their analysts. Everything is assigned a value from -2 to 2, then converted to a 0-100 scale.

 

basically if you don’t trust the PFF guys, they mean nothing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

 

I think Star is doing his job of taking up space, which is a factor PFF under-rates. 

 

I've been more focused on watching the offense on all-22 and frankly, I'm not good at figuring out which coverage gaps are the result of which error, but I don't think the safety love is entirely justified.

11 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

I think the "offensive line" should be one of the bottom 5... Just as a whole.

 

good point

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said:

Is the fact that our QB is at the top a good thing or bad thing.  The rest of the team has no highlights

this is a good question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

 

1 hour ago, RyanTalbotBills said:

Tre'Davious White has been one of Buffalo's best players, but I'm guessing he's not in the top 5 as Los Angeles went out of their way to avoid throwing in his direction. I personally think Lorenzo Alexander has been pretty solid through two weeks. Thought he'd crack the top 5.

I was coming here to say a lot of what Ryan is saying. I’m also surprised that Poyer cracked the top 5. He has not had a very good start to the year IMO. Tre White is our best player and Lorax has had a few good moments. Hughes has had some as well. In general though the list isn’t too far off. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there are mixed opinions on the value of PFF - and that is fair enough.  Through two games their top 5 graded Bills are:

 

1. Josh Allen - 73.3

2. Matt Milano - 71.5

3. Kyle Williams - 68.9

4. Micah Hyde - 67.6

5. Jordan Poyer - 66.5

 

Their worst 5 are:

 

1. Nathan Peterman - 24.3

2. Ryan Groy - 40.0

3. Kelvin Benjamin - 41.8

4. Charles Clay - 47.7

5. Star Lotulelei - 48.0

 

 

Some of that matches my eye test.... but some of it doesn't.  Interested in what others think.

 

 

I've always been confused about how PFF rates quarterbacks.  I like Josh Allen's potential.  But if he wasn't a rookie playing his first snaps in the NFL, I don't see how anyone could be rating his play very high at this point.  There are numerous times he's missed open guys, held the ball too long on sacks, thrown off target and made bad decisions.  Nathan Peterman's score sadly also seems too high, so maybe it's just a QB thing.

 

Count me down as another who thinks Star Lotulelei is getting unfairly knocked.  PFF seems to like DTs who penetrate in the backfield, so they have always given Kyle Williams very high scores (even when he doesn't have a good game).  Someone like Star is basically a space-eater who occupies blockers.  He's basically invisible on game film, not going forwards or backwards.  We can argue whether that kind of player is worth his big contract, but I certainly don't think he's been terrible for us.

 

Although Ryan Groy has definitely been our worst O-Lineman, I'm shocked that Jordan Mills and John Miller aren't on this list.  They have been almost as bad.  No push in the running game, constantly confused about who to block, and sometimes getting knocked onto their butts.  It's been awful.

 

Re-watching the game, I'm noticing that most of our defensive breakdowns are due to "discipline errors."  Edge players not keeping contain.  Linebackers biting too hard on play fakes.  Tacklers take bad angles to the ball.  Guys in the secondary in poor position.  I'm curious how PFF rates these kinds of plays, considering that Tremaine Edmunds is not on the negative list, and Jordan Poyer is listed very high.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Pbomb said:

I thought groy  was good in previous years not sure what happened to him this year. Benjamin doesn’t seem like he tries half the time. Many people predicted the lack of impact lotulelei would have. Surprised about clay. And peterman, well lets just hope he doesn’t play again for us

See any LBs or DEs on that bottom 5?

 

Then Star is doing his job.

If you're looking for Donald or Cox that cost 20 mil+.

Edited by formerlyofCtown
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

I've always been confused about how PFF rates quarterbacks.  I like Josh Allen's potential.  But if he wasn't a rookie playing his first snaps in the NFL, I don't see how anyone could be rating his play very high at this point.  There are numerous times he's missed open guys, held the ball too long on sacks, thrown off target and made bad decisions.  Nathan Peterman's score sadly also seems too high, so maybe it's just a QB thing.

 

Count me down as another who thinks Star Lotulelei is getting unfairly knocked.  PFF seems to like DTs who penetrate in the backfield, so they have always given Kyle Williams very high scores (even when he doesn't have a good game).  Someone like Star is basically a space-eater who occupies blockers.  He's basically invisible on game film, not going forwards or backwards.  We can argue whether that kind of player is worth his big contract, but I certainly don't think he's been terrible for us.

 

Although Ryan Groy has definitely been our worst O-Lineman, I'm shocked that Jordan Mills and John Miller aren't on this list.  They have been almost as bad.  No push in the running game, constantly confused about who to block, and sometimes getting knocked onto their butts.  It's been awful.

 

Re-watching the game, I'm noticing that most of our defensive breakdowns are due to "discipline errors."  Edge players not keeping contain.  Linebackers biting too hard on play fakes.  Tacklers take bad angles to the ball.  Guys in the secondary in poor position.  I'm curious how PFF rates these kinds of plays, considering that Tremaine Edmunds is not on the negative list, and Jordan Poyer is listed very high.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pff-player-grades

 

You can read about their methodology for these rankings at the link above if you’re curious. Just scroll down past the sales pitch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Groy is a partial victim of the people around him. He stepped-in nicely for Eric Wood in 2016 but he also had Richie Incognito lined-up next to him.....now look what he has. Vlad the stiff and Miller. 2 guys who probably don't start anywhere else in the NFL.

 

I'm not defending Groy, but he's not the only problem.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prolly does not belong here..but will ask anyway. I have not watched the all 22 on either game..at least I almost 100% focused on Edmunds and his play. Has Star been doing his job? And I am one who says that's job, in this D..is too occupy 2 players on most plays while maintaining his position. Sounds like he has from folks in here..that's good to hear!

 

@joesixpack , these numbers suppose graders, who do not know play calls and responsibilities, can grade players.Kinda tough. Jeremy White last year used to call out that PFF might claim that QBs have a  passer rating of 66 against Tre White(on a scale of 100) as what looks like his coverage responsibly caught balls on 2 of 3 targets. Problem with that rating is it dismisses that on the other 38 passes QB went elsewhere cause Tre had lockdown coverage..and Tre may have passed man off put PFF thinks it was still Tre's guy..or someone else may have blown a coverage and Tre was trying to cover up for it.

 

In other words..can be a tool to use..but as in most analytics need to take it for what they are and are not the bible..

Edited by plenzmd1
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×