Run game needs to be a stable....

[Bills4Ever4Life]

So, we have 3 running backs in our RB "stable".

McCoy who is a GREAT pass catcher / make a guys miss / bubble screen them to death RB with the occasional 20 yard race to the edge for a 4 yard gain. He has breakout ability in open space. 

Chris Ivory is "meh" but in the end he is just a hard runner that isn't that quick but will bowl over a few guys for a few extra yards and is a good "change of pace" back.

Marcus Murphy.....man this kid is good. It's his vision. He sees the holes before they are there and hits them at top speed. He also has the strength to push the pile. 

In the end we have 3 RB's with slightly different skill sets but all I saw for the first 3 quarters of the game was "LeSean McCoy runs it up the middle" and was "somehow" stopped by the 9 guys they had stacked in the box. NSS. Explain to me why we didn't have a healthy dose of MM and CI up the middle while allowing LM do what he does best? Why is it that every OC we have had since we got McCoy seems to think he is an every down "up the middle" running back? Why is it that when its raining and our main RB (who LIVES on the cut that he can't possibly make on the wet ground) keeps on being given the ball and getting blown up?

We have a stable of running backs and we need to start using them and adapting plays to their strengths instead of trying to use LeSean McCoy like he is Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson. 

On a final note, I would REALLY like to see Marcus Murphy against a first string defense. He is gold every time he touches the ball and I want to know if its Nathan Peterman Syndrome or not ;).

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[CaptnCoke11]

OL can’t block so good luck with that stable

[CuddyDark]

Teams will run blitz all season. I don't know why people don't understand the run game we had was 50% Tyrod. Without a threat from the QB there will be on running game. At least not the way we remember it.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

3 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

OL can’t block so good luck with that stable

OL didn't block well for murphy in the pre-season games either. What did he do? Made 2 - 3 guys miss. Pushed the pile 5 yeards. Turned negative plays into 2 - 3 yard gains by hitting a whole with explosiveness. I'd like to see if it was just him playing against vanilla defenses and less talent or if he really has it. Either way, mcCoy up the middle is ALWAYS a bad idea....just always. Bad...don't do it

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Teams will run blitz all season. I don't know why people don't understand the run game we had was 50% Tyrod. Without a threat from the QB there will be on running game. At least not the way we remember it.

I agree. Hoping Allen can change that a bit. He is a pretty good scrambler (no TT). Grasping at straws here

[HeHateMe]

Every run play is a holding call. 

[Bills4Ever4Life]

1 minute ago, HeHateMe said:

Every run play is a holding call. 

That's funny because my brother and I kept on joking about how they only flag LeSean McCoy. Every positive play we were like "wait....where is the flag...McCoy got yards....oh wait there it is ;)". I could turn it into a drinking game at this point. 

[pocoboy]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

Teams will run blitz all season. I don't know why people don't understand the run game we had was 50% Tyrod. Without a threat from the QB there will be on running game. At least not the way we remember it.

 

Tyrod was a threat, but a competent pocket QB is a much greater threat. The thing that was supposed to be Peterman's strength was his ability to recognize the defense and react at the line with quick adjustments and decisiveness. But we've now seen that he can't do that vs. good NFL defenses. He hesitates and doesn't have the tools to overcome. Allen gives you a chance, but after that CIN preseason game I'm pretty sure his defense recognition/adjustment abilities are not where they need to be yet.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Sometimes it’s easier to run the ball when your QB is actually a threat to throw the ball.  Just sayin...

[CuddyDark]

5 minutes ago, pocoboy said:

 

Tyrod was a threat, but a competent pocket QB is a much greater threat. The thing that was supposed to be Peterman's strength was his ability to recognize the defense and react at the line with quick adjustments and decisiveness. But we've now seen that he can't do that vs. good NFL defenses. He hesitates and doesn't have the tools to overcome. Allen gives you a chance, but after that CIN preseason game I'm pretty sure his defense recognition/adjustment abilities are not where they need to be yet.

 

2 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Sometimes it’s easier to run the ball when your QB is actually a threat to throw the ball.  Just sayin...

Here I said it all in this thread. I don't want to rehash this argument. TT was the best threat the Bills had at QB since the last time we made the Playoffs.

 

 

[Soda Popinski]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

Sometimes it’s easier to run the ball when your QB is actually a threat to throw the ball.  Just sayin...

Or your Wrs a threat to catch the ball.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

 

Here I said it all in this thread. I don't want to rehash this argument. TT was the best threat the Bills had at QB since the last time we made the Playoffs.

 

 

Yes he was.  Until we drafted Josh Allen.  Cleveland is already calling for Mayfield after yesterday, and they didn’t lose the game for the first time in two seasons.  Tyrod is better than Peterman, but he is not good.

[pocoboy]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

 

Here I said it all in this thread. I don't want to rehash this argument. TT was the best threat the Bills had at QB since the last time we made the Playoffs.

 

 

 

Sorry, that thread is running across the middle, kinda like most of the open receivers Tyrod couldn't be bothered to locate.

[CuddyDark]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Yes he was.  Until we drafted Josh Allen.  Cleveland is already calling for Mayfield after yesterday, and they didn’t lose the game for the first time in two seasons.  Tyrod is better than Peterman, but he is not good.

Josh Allen is a dream. He's unknown. He's a projection. He's not close to being TT, yet. Maybe he will become a star, we don't know.

Just now, pocoboy said:

 

Sorry, that thread is running across the middle, kinda like most of the open receivers Tyrod couldn't be bothered to locate.

Playoffs. Winning record.

[SCBills]

Ravens played the entire game like it was the red zone.   They had zero respect for Peterman and sold out on stopping the run and played press man. 

 

He wouldn't/couldn't make them pay.  His protection was fine, I don't want to hear about that.

 

This will be the game plan of every good defense - We will not be able to run the ball with him at QB.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2018 by SCBills

[26CornerBlitz]

The run game was kept in the "stable" yesterday with no room to run and with this 2018 OL I have my doubts that it will be a staple that can be relied upon on any kind of consistent basis. 

[pocoboy]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Josh Allen is a dream. He's unknown. He's a projection. He's not close to being TT, yet. Maybe he will become a star, we don't know.

Playoffs. Winning record.

 

Kyle Orton got them to a 9-7 record and didn't get Dalton pulling one out of his rear. Call him out of retirement pls!

Edited September 10, 2018 by pocoboy

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, pocoboy said:

 

Kyle Orton got them to a 9-7 record and didn't get Dalton pulling one out of his rear. Call him out of retirement pls!

TT has a winning record with the Bills.

[Teddy KGB]

5 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Josh Allen is a dream. He's unknown. He's a projection. He's not close to being TT, yet. Maybe he will become a star, we don't know.

Playoffs. Winning record.

 

He couldn’t win a game with 6 turnovers caused by his defense 

 

He still stinks and will be benched soon 

 

 

AGAIN     

 

 

The run game was not working yesterday.  

 

Not sure what the OP is asking for either 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Teddy KGB

[Mickey]

38 minutes ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

So, we have 3 running backs in our RB "stable".

McCoy who is a GREAT pass catcher / make a guys miss / bubble screen them to death RB with the occasional 20 yard race to the edge for a 4 yard gain. He has breakout ability in open space. 

Chris Ivory is "meh" but in the end he is just a hard runner that isn't that quick but will bowl over a few guys for a few extra yards and is a good "change of pace" back.

Marcus Murphy.....man this kid is good. It's his vision. He sees the holes before they are there and hits them at top speed. He also has the strength to push the pile. 

In the end we have 3 RB's with slightly different skill sets but all I saw for the first 3 quarters of the game was "LeSean McCoy runs it up the middle" and was "somehow" stopped by the 9 guys they had stacked in the box. NSS. Explain to me why we didn't have a healthy dose of MM and CI up the middle while allowing LM do what he does best? Why is it that every OC we have had since we got McCoy seems to think he is an every down "up the middle" running back? Why is it that when its raining and our main RB (who LIVES on the cut that he can't possibly make on the wet ground) keeps on being given the ball and getting blown up?

We have a stable of running backs and we need to start using them and adapting plays to their strengths instead of trying to use LeSean McCoy like he is Marshawn Lynch or Adrian Peterson. 

On a final note, I would REALLY like to see Marcus Murphy against a first string defense. He is gold every time he touches the ball and I want to know if its Nathan Peterman Syndrome or not ;).

 

 

What magic running plays are we not using that you can suggest that would pile up the yardage against 9 men in the box and a talentless O-line?

[apuszczalowski]

The run game wasnt working because the Ravens spent the entire game lining up to stop the run on every play letting the Bill's try and pass it. They knew the Bill's QB wasnt a threat to beat them in the air and he proved them right.

 

The line would have looked much better had the offence been more then one dimensional and not having to face constant attack to stop the run.

 

For as bad as Taylor was as a passer, he was a threat to run and make plays with his legs that teams had to account for, just like what the Ravens are expecting from Jackson.

 

Of course the offence was kept helped by having mediocre WRs who couldnt/wouldn't help out the QB by getting any separation or catching the ball when thrown to them. This team needs much better talent at that position, they need guys who can help make the QB look better and make catches that dont have to hit them square in the numbers.

[CuddyDark]

4 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Ravens played the entire game like it was the red zone.   They had zero respect for Peterman and sold out on stopping the run and played press man. 

 

He wouldn't/couldn't make them pay.  His protection was fine, I don't want to hear about that.

 

This will be the game plan of every good defense - We will not be able to run the ball with him at QB.

 

 

 

 

Why would a team do anything else against the Bills? It's something that should have been seen by the HC and GM in April.

[sleeby]

They needed to run a lot more yesterday. Saying the run game wasn't working makes no sense as the passing game sure as hell wasn't either and yet we kept at that.

 

Anyone else notice the 15 yards pass to zay jones that bounced off zay's hands else chest?  Second quarter I think.  Announcer stated the pass was blocked but I rewatched a few times and did not see the defense get his hand in front of zay.  Our eligable receivers look like they did last year - unable to catch.

 

Hard to have a good running game with no passing game.  Regardless of who our QB is those guys need to fix the basics.  Too many simple but hard thrown passes get dropped. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by sleeby

[CuddyDark]

12 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

He couldn’t win a game with 6 turnovers caused by his defense 

 

He still stinks and will be benched soon 

 

 

AGAIN     

 

 

The run game was not working yesterday.  

 

Not sure what the OP is asking for either 

The Browns didn't lose. TT has a winning record with the Bills. But I don't care about TT. I don't even want him on the Bills even though I know he's better this year than Allen and Peterman. What I want is for people to understand we are not going to be better without him because "it was all his fault." That's what I've been saying since March. TT is what he is, but that is better than a rookie. People here and on the radio have been selling a dream. Everything will not be magically better because TT is gone. It's stupid to believe this.

[Jerome007]

39 minutes ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

OL can’t block so good luck with that stable

Did you read that superb post by Bills4Ever4Life? Nope, the Bills can't pound it up the gut with that OLine! But McCoy is a sweep, small pass, lined-up as WR nightmare! And use the other two, CI in particular, to ram it up the gut and at the very least soften up those defenders for up-the-middle runs by McCoy in the second half. Nothing prevents from using Shady AND another running back at the same time. Get creative dammit. I thought Daboll was!

[CuddyDark]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

Did you read that superb post by Bills4Ever4Life? Nope, the Bills can't pound it up the gut with that OLine! But McCoy is a sweep, small pass, lined-up as WR nightmare! And use the other two, CI in particular, to ram it up the gut and at the very least soften up those defenders for up-the-middle runs by McCoy in the second half. Nothing prevents from using Shady AND another running back at the same time. Get creative dammit. I thought Daboll was!

With TT teams didn't attack the middle because he would escape. Without TT teams attack the middle because the QB can't escape. Both of these things directly effect Shady.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

1 minute ago, Jerome007 said:

Did you read that superb post by Bills4Ever4Life? Nope, the Bills can't pound it up the gut with that OLine! But McCoy is a sweep, small pass, lined-up as WR nightmare! And use the other two, CI in particular, to ram it up the gut and at the very least soften up those defenders for up-the-middle runs by McCoy in the second half. Nothing prevents from using Shady AND another running back at the same time. Get creative dammit. I thought Daboll was!

Thank you Jerome007. I was starting to feel like my point was lost.

To everyone else: First off, I get that we have SOOOO many other issues that making one adjustment wouldn't have won us that game. What I AM saying is that for the past two years we have take LeSean McCoy and used him as an every down / up the middle runner with a few screens now and then. This is NOT his game and we need to use the talent behind him to improve our running attack. We need to be using our stable instead of having three RB's, running one of them into the ground doing EVERYTHING and then only putting our other two in when he is hurt or they are needed for blitz pickup.

[Jerome007]

1 minute ago, CuddyDark said:

With TT teams didn't attack the middle because he would escape. Without TT teams attack the middle because the QB can't escape. Both of these things directly effect Shady.

Well again, put Shady for screens, small passes, lined up as WR against a LB. And while Allen certainly can't run as good as TT, he can run!  

[Bills4Ever4Life]

3 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

With TT teams didn't attack the middle because he would escape. Without TT teams attack the middle because the QB can't escape. Both of these things directly effect Shady.

You are really set on bringing this thread back to "TT" arent you? :P. I don't disagree. TT did two things right. He protected the ball and scrambled with the best of them. Sadly that was all he did right and it was marginally enough to slide into a playoff spot DESPITE him, not because of him. To be fair, I loved him when he won the job and his first season. He had GREAT accuracy and seemed to be our next franchise QB. Then something happened and all his deep accuracy disappeared and he started playing scared. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

With TT teams didn't attack the middle because he would escape. Without TT teams attack the middle because the QB can't escape. Both of these things directly effect Shady.

 

Allen can escape the rush, and he can throw the football down the field.  The offense will open up with Allen at QB.

 

You are acting like TT played well yesterday.  He was not good.  If the Browns defense wasn’t spectacular they lose that game by 20 points.  Taylor will be benched for Mayfield very soon because he, like Peterman, is very limited as a passer.

[Jerome007]

1 minute ago, Bills4Ever4Life said:

Thank you Jerome007. I was starting to feel like my point was lost.

To everyone else: First off, I get that we have SOOOO many other issues that making one adjustment wouldn't have won us that game. What I AM saying is that for the past two years we have take LeSean McCoy and used him as an every down / up the middle runner with a few screens now and then. This is NOT his game and we need to use the talent behind him to improve our running attack. We need to be using our stable instead of having three RB's, running one of them into the ground doing EVERYTHING and then only putting our other two in when he is hurt or they are needed for blitz pickup.

You and I have the EXACT point of view on this.

 

And now with Ivory and Murphy, the Bills have alternatives for those early runs down the middle. I'm not one of the "Shady is 30 so over-the-hill" guys, but what prevents saving him for his strengths, and using others to "pound the middle" early? (If they don't get tackled at the handoff...)

[CuddyDark]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Allen can escape the rush, and he can throw the football down the field.  The offense will open up with Allen at QB.

 

You are acting like TT played well yesterday.  He was not good.  If the Browns defense wasn’t spectacular they lose that game by 20 points.  Taylor will be benched for Mayfield very soon because he, like Peterman, is very limited as a passer.

It's all theory. We don't know what he will do. He has zero body of work as a starting QB in the NFL.

 

Also who cares about what TT is doing with the Browns? I'm talking about what he did with the Bills and how that relates to the Bills players and offense.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Just now, CuddyDark said:

It's all theory. We don't know what he will do. He has zero body of work as a starting QB in the NFL.

 

Also who cares about what TT is doing with the Browns? I'm talking about what he did with the Bills and how that relates to the Bills players and offense.

 

Why?  Tyrod’s gone dude.  Let it go.

[CuddyDark]

Just now, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Why?  Tyrod’s gone dude.  Let it go.

Because people like you said we'd be better without him. We are not.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

5 minutes ago, Jerome007 said:

You and I have the EXACT point of view on this.

 

And now with Ivory and Murphy, the Bills have alternatives for those early runs down the middle. I'm not one of the "Shady is 30 so over-the-hill" guys, but what prevents saving him for his strengths, and using others to "pound the middle" early? (If they don't get tackled at the handoff...)

How dare we share an opinion? We must be at each others throats and disagree on everything! The sky is falling!!

Seriously though, I completely agree. Did you notice in pre-season though when Murphy was given the ball with a defender in his face on MULTIPLE plays and he just ripped away from them, did an amazing spin move out of madden or bull rushed them down for positive yardage? The kid is going to be great. In the mean time he can at least be used for something other than pass protection ?

Is it bad to hope that McCoy's inevitable injury comes sooner than later so we can stop trying to pigeon-hole him into something he isn't and suffer for it? How many 2nd and > 10 did we have because we were like "look....9 men in the box.....you know what McCoy is REALLY good at?...running up the middle against 9 guys." Rinse wash and repeat every first down. "hey look...its 2nd and 12....we have McCoy in. They will never see it coming. RUN HIM UP THE MIDDLE!". You don't need to become predictable to the point that every time McCoy is on the field you know its a screen and every time the others are in you know its a run up the middle....but you can try something new. Definition of insanity, trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results ;).

Edited September 10, 2018 by Bills4Ever4Life

[Johnny Hammersticks]

2 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Because people like you said we'd be better without him. We are not.

 

Because this team is rebuilding around a rookie QB.  In the long term we are better without Tyrod Taylor.  Let’s see if you change your tune after Allen gets a full week of work with the 1’s and a full game under his belt.

[Bills4Ever4Life]

BTW guys. Try to find all the plays of Marcus Murphy in the pre-season. They stacked the box on him a couple of times and he STILL made positive plays....just sayin ;). Put in McCoy and Murphy / Ivory in a pro set and you never will know where it's going or who is getting it if you do things right. Instead every team knows that if its McCoy you just plug all the holes / set the edge and get a Tackle for a loss.

[CuddyDark]

3 minutes ago, Johnny Hammersticks said:

 

Because this team is rebuilding around a rookie QB.  In the long term we are better without Tyrod Taylor.  Let’s see if you change your tune after Allen gets a full week of work with the 1’s and a full game under his belt.

I want them to be better. But I don't wish for it. I don't believe in hope. A wise but past his prime old man once said, "Show me the baby."

[Johnny Hammersticks]

4 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

I want them to be better. But I don't wish for it. I don't believe in hope. A wise but past his prime old man once said, "Show me the baby."

 

Fair enough.  I suppose I have more confidence in Allen than most.  He will take his lumps this season and make mistakes, but ultimately (with the right pieces around him) I think he will be our guy.  

 

 I’ve been saying this for a while, but I think the intent of the FO was not to win his year.  I think this team is being set up to compete in 2019 and beyond.  Sucks, but this seems to be the plan.

[NewEra]

54 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Josh Allen is a dream. He's unknown. He's a projection. He's not close to being TT, yet. Maybe he will become a star, we don't know.

Playoffs. Winning record.

And every coach in the league would take Allen over TT every day of the week. The only team that wanted TT won one game in 2 seasons.

[Teddy KGB]

40 minutes ago, CuddyDark said:

Because people like you said we'd be better without him. We are not.

 

 

We scored 7 points and only lost 13-7 when your guy was around to face the ravens.  

 

Lets pay 24 million for another 111 yards from the veteran. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Teddy KGB