Da webster guy Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I watched all the throws today. there were very few handoffs, it was a soft practice for sure, but my biggest takeaway was that Allen's passes are distinctly different than AJ/Peterman. I don't mean because of the zip, although Peterman's passes seemed to have very little of that-- I mean his release point is a full foot higher than the other guys and he has such good rotation that he doesn't need to throw rainbows because he's almost throwing down. The angle and trajectory are noticeably different because of this. It took me awhile to realize what it was, and i'm not sure it shows up on the television, but he really does sling a significantly different ball than the other throwers. I think that's why he struggles a little with the short touch pass, because he literally throws straight out and down instead of a soft air pass like Peterman or Tyrod. The best example was one of his last throws of the day in the left flat to RayRay, he didn't have much separation, and the safety was coming over hard, but he was able to put it just over the corner, similar to that pass to TE Khari Lee (?) on that pressured rollout in the Carolina game. It was 25 yards downfield but the cover guy couldn't really turn around in time so the ball got through to the receiver even though it really shouldn't have. Ray actually dropped the ball even though it hit him in the hands and I think it was because he didn't think the ball would get to him. I was surprised he threw it all all. It wasn't a Nolan Ryan zing like his TD pass last week, just a typical Josh toss, but I'll bet that's a pick if AJ or Peterman throw that same ball. I don't know. I remember Elway having a distinct advantage as a passer because in a lot of situations corners couldn't get their head around in time and the ball is by them already. And for the first time I realized that being big and tall might have more advantages than just the ability to see over your line, shed tacklers and have less batted balls--having a higher release point, in his case anyway, seems to translate to a better throw-- harder to defend because it's flatter, tougher to track maybe. He's done it a bunch of times. I'm probably not describing it well enough but there is something to this. I keep thinking tall receivers make sense for this kid, that Holmes and KB should be the 1/2 and we keep using 2 TE sets. Let Kerley, Zay and Coleman fill in the rest, but for my base offense I'm going with the big fellas. Allen really might be one of those guys that actually throws his guys open and we need possession/jump ballers out there to take advantage of his throwing style. 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Thanks for the observations. I thought this thread was going to be about him changing his throwing angle, which I have noticed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 He has a classic over the top, quick release... The way the ball comes out is Bledsoe esq its just different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnetar Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) Hmm, I think if you were able to plot the balls path on his throws, there is no way he's throwing downward on most of his passes, it's a physics thing... I don't know what the threshold yardage would be, but after a certain distance the ball has to have a ballistic trajectory http://www.convertalot.com/ballistic_trajectory_calculator.html. Which means up then down. And, it is an issue for accuracy where a rainbow touch pass is required for timing purposes. Can't just rifle the ball in every situation, that's why he's considered inaccurate, because that's what he does. Hence the reason people are going on about his inability to be consistent on intermediate throws, which is kind of what the NFL is... Edited August 15, 2018 by Magnetar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoTom Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 I noticed at least one play where a DE was rushing from the right - Josh could see him coming. It looked like he adjusted his throwing motion by pulling the ball in a little tight before letting it go, in order to avoid letting the DE have a shot at it. If I remember it correctly, it was a completion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 He also can sling it sidearm (although seemingly with less accuracy) when the situation calls for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Lots of great QB's have a high release point. Peyton Manning had a high release point too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnetar Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, MJS said: Lots of great QB's have a high release point. Peyton Manning had a high release point too. He was able to tailor the velocity when the situation required. Question with Allen is, will he learn to do that. Edited August 15, 2018 by Magnetar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 For me personally, I just wanna see if he improves at all in this week's game. His fundamentals look pretty good to me for a rookie (remember how ugly Manuel's mechanics were at times?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Love watching Allen throw the football. I have never seen anyone ever throw a football like Allen. Cant wait to see him in the regular season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Magnetar said: He was able to tailor the velocity when the situation required. Question with Allen is, will he learn to do that. He threw a couple nice touch passes in the Carolina game. I think has improved in this regard. Not every pass needs to break fingers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) One thing I notice is does drop the hand level low before he throws it. It goes down to his hip. Not saying it's an issue because he actually releases it pretty quickly. It was an issue with Byron Leftwich since his was a much longer wind up. Edited August 15, 2018 by Royale with Cheese 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: One thing I notice is does drop the hand level low before he throws it. It goes down to his hip. Not saying it's an issue because he actually releases it pretty quickly. Idk if it’s the picture or angle but it definitely looks like he dips it a bit... but it I just rewatched every throw from Carolina and it’s tough to see if he dips it that low... his release is so quick you can’t really tell its not a long motion so I’m not worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Idk if it’s the picture or angle but it definitely looks like he dips it a bit... but it I just rewatched every throw from Carolina and it’s tough to see if he dips it that low... his release is so quick you can’t really tell its not a long motion so I’m not worried He does not dip the ball low. In the picture shown it looks like his back shoulder is lower than the front shoulder - indicating a higher ball flight throw (dropping in a pass). In that case the dip of the ball is relative to the angle of the shoulders. Royale - he in no way resembles Leftwichs' motion. He may have some footwork issues but his upper body mechanics are nearly perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 1 minute ago, White Linen said: He does not dip the ball low. In the picture shown it looks like his back shoulder is lower than the front shoulder - indicating a higher ball flight throw (dropping in a pass). In that case the dip of the ball is relative to the angle of the shoulders. Royale - he in no way resembles Leftwichs' motion. He may have some footwork issues but his upper body mechanics are nearly perfect. Yea, his upper body mechanics are nearly flawless he had a bit of an elongated motion 2 years ago but really cleaned it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: Idk if it’s the picture or angle but it definitely looks like he dips it a bit... but it I just rewatched every throw from Carolina and it’s tough to see if he dips it that low... his release is so quick you can’t really tell its not a long motion so I’m not worried I always notice if a guy has a dip because I have one too. I noticed it immediately with Allen. Here's two screen shots of a throw on Thursday. Drops it close to the hip and looks his elbow is below the shoulder near release. An old school QB coach, like the one I had in HS would try to correct it. I don't see an issue with it since it's not a long wind up. Edited August 15, 2018 by Royale with Cheese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: I always notice if a guy has a dip because I have one too. I noticed it immediately with Allen. Here's two screen shots of a throw on Thursday. Drops it close to the hip and looks his elbow is below the shoulder near release. An old school QB coach, like the one I had in HS would try to correct it. I don't see an issue with it since it's not a long wind up. Aaron Rodgers has had the same flaw his whole career. They always try to get him to keep it at his ear but he always goes back to his old ways starts high, drops shoulder a bit, but still has laser quick release as an an old QB coach I wouldn’t tweak it yet because it hasn’t caused a fumbling problem or anything yet Its still pretty compact and quick. If it was a slow release I’d be worried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 If I had a fantasy football team I’d call it Allen’s Arm Angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said: Aaron Rodgers has had the same flaw his whole career. They always try to get him to keep it at his ear but he always goes back to his old ways starts high, drops shoulder a bit, but still has laser quick release as an an old QB coach I wouldn’t tweak it yet because it hasn’t caused a fumbling problem or anything yet Its still pretty compact and quick. If it was a slow release I’d be worried Phillip Rivers has it too. His first coach, I believe was Shottenheimer? Anyway, they used to put 7 ft ladders in front of him forcing him to start throwing more over the top. I don't know if it actually helped or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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