[Vague Title] It continues... Josh Allen...

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, WPBillsFan said:

I agree with him... I was wondering when somebody on these boards were going to say something.  I usually sit back and read most of the threads.  I can't believe how may people on this specific board love Josh Allen.  It's almost like every Bill fan that loves Josh Allen is on this message board alone LOL.  Well,  I can tell you from social media, listening to WGR, Joe B Podcast...reading a lot of local beat writers...people do not like the Josh Allen move.  I hear and read more people bashing the Josh Allen pick except when I get on here... it almost seems like this forum has been living in a bubble during the pre draft build up.  

 

I for one...just don't understand...It's like this message board decided to wipe away anything bad that was reported about Josh Allen... there's not many that like him as a QB in the NFL.

 

 

Just google "Is Josh Allen going to be a bust" and watch what pops up...you might get 6 good articles saying he won't... it's hard to find professionals that love him. That's all i'm saying 

And let's let him play and see how he does.  That's all I'm saying.

 

But I'll say a bit more.  I would have liked Watson last year, but there were also a lot of negative articles about him.  I did not want Mahomes; guys coming out of the system he played haven't done much in the NFL.  Yet some of the same people bashing Allen cry about not drafting Mahomes, as if Mahomes is some kind of guaranteed superstar.  And I wanted Rosen this year, but apparently his personality may have turned McD and Beane off.

 

Bottom line: all these guys have different positives and negatives, and time will tell.  And there are a few folks that would like to see Allen fail so they can go on a message board and brag about how they were right, sad as that is.  I don't think you are one of those but they exist.

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, WPBillsFan said:

I agree with him... I was wondering when somebody on these boards were going to say something.  I usually sit back and read most of the threads.  I can't believe how may people on this specific board love Josh Allen.  It's almost like every Bill fan that loves Josh Allen is on this message board alone LOL.  Well,  I can tell you from social media, listening to WGR, Joe B Podcast...reading a lot of local beat writers...people do not like the Josh Allen move.  I hear and read more people bashing the Josh Allen pick except when I get on here... it almost seems like this forum has been living in a bubble during the pre draft build up.  

 

I for one...just don't understand...It's like this message board decided to wipe away anything bad that was reported about Josh Allen... there's not many that like him as a QB in the NFL.

 

 

Just google "Is Josh Allen going to be a bust" and watch what pops up...you might get 6 good articles saying he won't... it's hard to find professionals that love him. That's all i'm saying 

 

You're not reading very closely if you think everyone - or even the majority - on this board are optimistic about Josh Allen.

 

Sure, there are homers who think he's the best thing since sliced bread; but there are very few of those.

Many, like myself, have guarded optimism about Allen.

Many hated the pick, but are smart enough to realize that he's thrown exactly the same number of NFL passes in his career that you, I and Josh Rosen have.

And there are some who are saying he's going to be a bust before he's even taken a snap; they will be our crusaders for years to come.  Joy.

 

Most rational people realize that nobody knows how any of the rookie QBs will fare.  And we won't know for a few years, at least.

[BB@Shooter]

On 7/24/2018 at 2:24 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

If the Senior Bowl performance translates great. But I think it is a game you shouldn't read too much into. No blitzing, only 4 man rushes etc. 

And if Allen did poorly in that game I am sure you wouldn't use that as ammo against him. Lol. You guys kill me.

Edited July 27, 2018 by BB@Shooter

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BB@Shooter said:

And if Allen did poorly in that game I am sure you wouldn't use that as ammo against him. Lol. You guys kill me.

 

I wouldn't. I don't grade the Senior Bowl.  Is it better to play well there than badly, sure. Has it ever proven a proper indicator of future NFL career prospects? No. 

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

I see you catch feelings when something bad is posted about Josh Allen???

 

 

I catch feelings for thin waists and big booty’s.   

 

You don’t know what you’re talking about.    OP has bashed Allen for months. 

 

Thanks for chiming in. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

6 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

It's like this message board decided to wipe away anything bad that was reported about Josh Allen... there's not many that like him as a QB in the NFL.

 

I disagree.  I see a lot of commentary on this message board pointing to flaws in Allen.  What I think you're confusing here is that a lot of people who didn't care for the Josh Allen pick now recognize that ship has sailed, our FO has made their choice and hitched their wagon to him.  So we're hoping for the best.

 

Hoping for the best in a done-deal is not the same as "wipe away anything bad that was reported", but to Absolutists it apparently looks that way.

 

 

6 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

Just google "Is Josh Allen going to be a bust" and watch what pops up...you might get 6 good articles saying he won't... it's hard to find professionals that love him. That's all i'm saying 

 

Oh for Cripes sake.  Just google "Is (Noun) (negative adjective)" and watch what pops up.  Why not try googling something more positive or at least neutral, and see what pops up?

Obviously some professionals (the ones that count, meaning they work for NFL teams) love him or he wouldn't have gotten the draft attention he did.

 

[Lurker]

I wonder how many of the folks who're down on Allen's potential watched any of his 2016 game film?   

 

If you go by simply his 2017 performance, you can scratch your head and wonder how he could be considered a top-tier prospect.   I know that was my initial reaction.    It wasn't until I started reviewing the 2016 game video that I saw what makes him an intriguing prospect.    It was almost like night and day, IMO.     

 

His 2017 team--especially the O-line, but also the receivers and running backs--was dreck.   He was constantly on the run and appeared to develop a number of bad habits, particularly with his footwork and constantly ad libbing the play.   However, the 2016 Allen was more fundamentally sound and played more within the scheme.   That has to be what attracted the Bills the most.   

 

Now the question becomes, which guy did they get.   The 2016 version that looked like a guy with an NFL future or the 2017 version of EJ Manuel-lite?     Time will tell and it may not even be evident this year...

[BB@Shooter]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I wouldn't. I don't grade the Senior Bowl.  Is it better to play well there than badly, sure. Has it ever proven a proper indicator of future NFL career prospects? No. 

There are a lot of things that don't indicate a future NFL career, but you guys bring them up all the time. I see some of the stupidest arguments on here. I watched Allen play in person at least 16 times, I think I have a pretty good feel for what he can and can't do. Having talent around him at the Senior Bowl helped his confidence. The guy is more accurate than you guys give him credit for. Watching him on TV does not show what he really faced. You need to see it live to understand. 

[John from Riverside]

On 7/26/2018 at 1:29 PM, Scorp83 said:

but that's like 5%

Math is not a strong area with you is it?

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, BB@Shooter said:

There are a lot of things that don't indicate a future NFL career, but you guys bring them up all the time. I see some of the stupidest arguments on here. I watched Allen play in person at least 16 times, I think I have a pretty good feel for what he can and can't do. Having talent around him at the Senior Bowl helped his confidence. The guy is more accurate than you guys give him credit for. Watching him on TV does not show what he really faced. You need to see it live to understand. 

 

Yea okay. I confess I have never seen him live. We will soon see whether that makes any difference whatsoever. 

[JohnC]

55 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea okay. I confess I have never seen him live. We will soon see whether that makes any difference whatsoever. 

Aren't there any direct flights from Heathrow to Laramie, Wyoming? There is no excuse for your lack of preparation in evaluating prospects. Didn't you read the book "Scouting for Dummies"? It prominently states in the first chapter that if you don't see a player live then what you see on tape doesn't count. I'm very disappointed in you. Get with it! 

[billsfan89]

My fear is that the Bills will force Allen into action because their other options stink and the worst thing you can do for a QB that needs help with his footwork is to put him behind a bad O-line. I think Allen needs at least a year to develop and the analytics are correct in that based off of his college performance you can't see the precedent for Josh Allen. But ever players circumstances are different. There is real reason to think Allen will be a bust but also a lot of reason to think he won't. You just have to let it play out. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

My fear is that the Bills will force Allen into action because their other options stink and the worst thing you can do for a QB that needs help with his footwork is to put him behind a bad O-line. I think Allen needs at least a year to develop and the analytics are correct in that based off of his college performance you can't see the precedent for Josh Allen. But ever players circumstances are different. There is real reason to think Allen will be a bust but also a lot of reason to think he won't. You just have to let it play out. 

 

...if so, why is he then practicing with the 3rds?......just curious..............

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...if so, why is he then practicing with the 3rds?......just curious..............

 

Just to be clear I was not saying that is what is happening, but rather that my worst case scenario is that Allen will be forced in when he isn't ready. Another plausible scenario is that AJ or Peterman start the season and the offense struggles out the gate big time. McD turned to Peterman last year after the offense started to struggle with Tyrod.

 

I wouldn't be shocked to see Allen start 6-8 weeks into the season if the team is off to a rocky start offensively. I have no problem throwing Allen in the last 3-4 games of the season. By that point, the pressure is off and he won't be developing habits in that limited amount of starts but 8 or more games and that could throw off his development if the offensive talent around him is bad. 

 

I think McD knows that long-term Allen is best off handled with kid gloves. But in the NFL the long term isn't always what coaches do. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by billsfan89

[Scorp83]

11 hours ago, Teddy KGB said:

 

I catch feelings for thin waists and big booty’s.   

 

You don’t know what you’re talking about.    OP has bashed Allen for months. 

 

Thanks for chiming in. 

I haven't really been bashing... I've been posting what the media & experts are saying about him... even though you,@Hapless Bills Fan & ect. feels like it's not credible enough.  Glad you notice what I've been doing for the past months... that's great! I dont have to keep reposting...I just keep posting new stuff about him. 

 

Don't get mad at the messenger... even though I don't believe in Allen until he proves it. 

 

But that's my point...besides a handful of people...there's way more experts that feel like Allen will bust out, enough for me to spend months posting their stuff...& its NOT because he's a Bill that experts dislike him. This stuff has been said about him throughout the entire 2017 college season last year & during the predraft period.  

 

Like I've said... I just haven't drunk the koolaid because he's a Bill... 

 

Now if you want my opinion...let's switch the tune from media outlets that dislike Allen as a prospect.

 

What made Mahomes not worthy in their eyes to move out of 11 in the 2017 Draft?? 

 

If they would have taken Mahomes or Watson... they still could have possibly drafted Edmonds... & we would of had Mahomes & Edmonds instead of Allen. 

 

This is why I said... Mahomes, Watson, Rosen & Jackson will play a huge part on McBeane future... Allen CANNOT BE ANDY DALTON, or Kirk Cousins! He has to be better to justify the pick, and I dont believe he will. I pray I'm wrong...either way...its a win...win... for me. But until then...I will continue to give this board the RED PILL... & let you all continue to read the ton of experts that will forever breakdown his game until Allen actually proves he's Great!

 

 

Now that's my opinion...

Edited July 28, 2018 by Scorp83
Typo

[Teddy KGB]

Yea i was with you until the Kirk Cousins and Lamar Jackson remarks. 

 

We definetly dropped the ball on Deshaun Watson.   

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

I haven't really been bashing... I've been posting what the media & experts are saying about him... even though you,@Hapless Bills Fan & ect. feels like it's not credible enough. 

 

 

Correction. 

You have been posting your exaggerated assertions about what the media and experts are saying, without any links to evidence backing it up.

The credibility lies with lack of documentation and with the exaggeration, not with my or anyone elses' "feelings"

And yeah, that pretty much fits the operational definition of "bashing"

(and just so it's clear - I went back and looked at your posts since March.  You say watched 6 film links you were sent of Allen games.  You have never posted any kind of comprehensive assessment of what media and experts have said about Allen, just an anecdote here and there from one or another "pundit" such as Ledyard, whose evaluation of Cardale Jones was...shall we say, Stunning)

 

When you post your opinions as such, and share the evidence they're based on (watching game film) that's way more credible, even if folks disagree.  For example, I'd be delighted if Allen was Kirk Cousins and even Andy Dalton would be OK, he's not a bust, give him a decent OL and a WR and he'll take you to the playoffs.  But if you watch Cousins and Dalton and think they suck, hey, we just disagree.

 

I see your point about comparison to other QB we passed on, but the real question is whether Allen becomes a competent NFL QB or not.  Back in da day when the Bills went to 4 straight Superbowls, I don't recall anyone complaining that we took Kelly while Dan Marino was still on the board.  So if Allen is playing successfully and the team is successful, it won't really matter whether or not Rosen and Jackson and Mahomes and Watson are successful, or not.  It's only if he busts that it will become an issue to many.

[BB@Shooter]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yea okay. I confess I have never seen him live. We will soon see whether that makes any difference whatsoever. 

I am sure you are paid a great deal of money on here for your negative outlook on Allen. Spend it wisely. 

[BB@Shooter]

On 7/26/2018 at 2:29 PM, Scorp83 said:

I've said there were a handful of people that felt otherwise about Allen... but that's like 5%

 

I've been posting threads for months on almost everyone that was on one accord about him. Mayock, Chris Simms...his pop, kiper... & maybe 2 other people that were high on Allen. That's almost it. Like...I'm not going to sit & repost everything again...just so you can deem it credible.

 

I stand by my opinion on Josh Allen, as someone that actually watched his game not YouTube clips (not saying you didn't)...but he sucked in College. Does he have a big arm...yea...so did JP Losman, does he have a good personality? Yea... but so did Fitzpatrick. Whatever "It" is... he doesn't have it. 

 

I'm on record saying "I want to be wrong about Allen"

 

I pray that I'm totally wrong. But I've been around this game for a long time, played it & all. Played it, coaches it & all... there's nothing that jumps out that he's going to translate well. I think he's going to make some plays...but not be consistent. 

 

Heck Tannehill has made some plays... but I feel Miami should have drafted a QB too. 

 

Just because I'm not posting the same links doesn't mean what I wrote about Allen isn't credible. & yes... ignoring the entire landscape on Allen...& only believing the good about him is "Homer Koolaid" at it's finest batch!

 

People get upset when they hear what people say about Josh Allen... yet nobody was this tight about it during the predraft.

 

Everyone on this board wanted NOTHING to do with this man... but yet our team took him...& it's wrong to point out that they probably made the biggest mistake since Buddy Nix taking TJ Graham over Russell Wilson.

 

That's be delusional brah

You are quite full of yourself and your opinion. You must also get paid well for your "thoughts" on Allen. Maybe our box seats are next to each other and we can both throw our expertise opinions at each other between plays.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BB@Shooter said:

I am sure you are paid a great deal of money on here for your negative outlook on Allen. Spend it wisely. 

 

Behave. I am not paid anything. My 'negative outlook' if that is what you want to call it long pre-dates the Bills drafting him. 

 

Disagree with me on him if you like. That is fine, many people do. Don't accuse me of manipulating my opinion or giving an opinion that isn't honest or suggest I have an agenda. I put the hours in, I did the work, I am entitled to an opinion. I didn't see him live and you did. I have said Allen has a chance to be a franchise guy I just think it is a small chance. I will be rooting for him every time he takes the field and if he makes it I will be the first to be here saying I was wrong.