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26CornerBlitz

How Bills' Wide Receivers are Fighting to Make a Name for Themselves

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Kurley is pretty good. I think people are under appreciating him. It’s like the Wild West out there with all these nobody’s fighting for roster spots. I think when the dust settles they are almost all fighting for only 1 spot. IMO the professional veterans we have in camp are basically sure things; KB, Zay, Kurley and Holmes...And all these other guys are fighting for that 5th spot. Probably a guy that can play STs. Nothing about this is me trying to saying we are set. We have the worst group of WRs in the NFL and I don’t think it’s close. I just see it playing out as those 4 spots will be taken by the 4 men I mentioned. All these other guys will probably battle it out for that 5th spot and hopefully we can find another “Steve Johnson” gem.

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7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Kurley is pretty good. I think people are under appreciating him. It’s like the Wild West out there with all these nobody’s fighting for roster spots. I think when the dust settles they are almost all fighting for only 1 spot. IMO the professional veterans we have in camp are basically sure things; KB, Zay, Kurley and Holmes...And all these other guys are fighting for that 5th spot. Probably a guy that can play STs. Nothing about this is me trying to saying we are set. We have the worst group of WRs in the NFL and I don’t think it’s close. I just see it playing out as those 4 spots will be taken by the 4 men I mentioned. All these other guys will probably battle it out for that 5th spot and hopefully we can find another “Steve Johnson” gem.

I have a hard time considering Zay Jones a "veteran." Although, I suppose, it being his second year, that would qualify him as such? And, considering his performance last year, I certainly hope he isn't a "sure thing." He should be fighting for a roster spot right along with Reilly, Foster, et al. As for Kerley, and Holmes, I don't think they are guaranteed a spot either, although I do think they have a leg up, and are certainly veterans.

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Ohhhh, ohhhh, is this a nickname thread?? I’ll go with “Double Stuffed Oreo” (Benjamin, Reilly, O’Leary and Kerly)

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4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I have a hard time considering Zay Jones a "veteran." Although, I suppose, it being his second year, that would qualify him as such? And, considering his performance last year, I certainly hope he isn't a "sure thing." He should be fighting for a roster spot right along with Reilly, Foster, et al. As for Kerley, and Holmes, I don't think they are guaranteed a spot either, although I do think they have a leg up, and are certainly veterans.

They traded up to get him and took him in the 2nd round. He technically is the WR we have the most invested into. He’s not going anywhere. Zay is the swing state to this whole thing. KB is a legit #1 IMO. Kurley is a solid slot guy. If Zay actually becomes good, we may have something here. If he doesn’t, it will really hurt us.

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hopefully this is a case where competition will breed success. other than Benjamin, nobody else really has the "sure thing" label. i would think zay will be busting his butt to get back on the right track, kerley will want to make a paycheck, reilly will want to break through, holmes will want to prove he is a receiver in this league, ray ray and proehl should be plenty hungry to prove they belong, streater should be itching to pick up where he left off before the injury, and foster should be salivating at this opportunity. these guys may not be proven all stars, but hopefully we will see a bunch of guys giving everything they have and may the best man (men) win!

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26 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

Kurley is pretty good. I think people are under appreciating him. It’s like the Wild West out there with all these nobody’s fighting for roster spots. I think when the dust settles they are almost all fighting for only 1 spot. IMO the professional veterans we have in camp are basically sure things; KB, Zay, Kurley and Holmes...And all these other guys are fighting for that 5th spot. Probably a guy that can play STs. Nothing about this is me trying to saying we are set. We have the worst group of WRs in the NFL and I don’t think it’s close. I just see it playing out as those 4 spots will be taken by the 4 men I mentioned. All these other guys will probably battle it out for that 5th spot and hopefully we can find another “Steve Johnson” gem.

 

Zay is sure to make the roster. The question is what impact will he have after a disappointing rookie campaign. 

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I think kerley is underrated however we definitely need more for whatever QB ends up under center.  Especially a rookie!  Look at any team that is a serious contender every year they have weapons.  

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16 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I have a hard time considering Zay Jones a "veteran." Although, I suppose, it being his second year, that would qualify him as such? And, considering his performance last year, I certainly hope he isn't a "sure thing." He should be fighting for a roster spot right along with Reilly, Foster, et al. As for Kerley, and Holmes, I don't think they are guaranteed a spot either, although I do think they have a leg up, and are certainly veterans.

The point is not whether you or I think he is the answer.  The point is he is a veteran, so he knows a lot more than rookies.  As long as he uses that knowledge he will be one of the best in camp because of what he knows. 

 

He IS fighting for a roster shot, but being a veteran gives him a big edge. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Zay is sure to make the roster. The question is what impact will he have after a disappointing rookie campaign. 

I actually don’t think it’s a sure thing Zay makes it, although it’s certainly likely.  The only thing worse than his performance last season was his offseason.  If he doesn’t show serious improvement, and the drafted rookies play really well, Zay could be on the outside looking in.

Edited by mannc
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Is Stevie J 13 still in playing shape?  Heard rumors the last few years of him

being invinted back

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1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

The point is not whether you or I think he is the answer.  The point is he is a veteran, so he knows a lot more than rookies.  As long as he uses that knowledge he will be one of the best in camp because of what he knows. 

 

He IS fighting for a roster shot, but being a veteran gives him a big edge. 

 

 

but he isn't a veteran 

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1 minute ago, White Linen said:

 

but he isn't a veteran 

what are you talking about?   He wasn't in the military?

 

He's a veteran in the NFL.   He played essentially a full season, started 10 games, and was targeted 74 times.    He learned his job in the running game.  

 

That experience makes him a veteran.   He's way ahead of rookie receivers, except the most talented.   I'm not saying he's good; I'm saying he has experience, and experience is valuable.  Just like Holmes.   

 

Is it possible someone beats him out?  Beats out Holmes?  Absolutely.   Is it possible that a rookie the Bills have now could do It?  Yes.   Likely?   No.   Why not?   Because the Bills don't have a rookie receiver who has a top prospect.   Except for the occasional surprise, rookie receivers who do well in their first year come at the top of the draft.   

 

Zay Jones has experience AND the talent that got him drafted in the second round.   Why would a kid with not experience and less talent be expected to take the job from Jones?   May happen.   Not likely. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

They traded up to get him and took him in the 2nd round. He technically is the WR we have the most invested into. He’s not going anywhere. Zay is the swing state to this whole thing. KB is a legit #1 IMO. Kurley is a solid slot guy. If Zay actually becomes good, we may have something here. If he doesn’t, it will really hurt us.

Obviously, his draft position means a lot less after his rookie season. Also, IIRC, his big selling point when he was drafted was not that he was a big playmaker, but that he was the most NFL-ready WR of his class. That has certainly not proven to be the case.

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

The point is not whether you or I think he is the answer.  The point is he is a veteran, so he knows a lot more than rookies.  As long as he uses that knowledge he will be one of the best in camp because of what he knows. 

 

He IS fighting for a roster shot, but being a veteran gives him a big edge. 

 

I believe you're right that he is very likely to make the roster. But, I think that says a lot more about how thin we are at WR than anything else. I have to think that most other teams would not value him the way we seem to, and if we dropped him today, is there another team in the NFL that would pick him up?

Edited by Rocky Landing

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Obviously, his draft position means a lot less after his rookie season. Also, IIRC, his big selling point when he was drafted was not that he was a big playmaker, but that he was the most NFL-ready WR of his class. That has certainly not proven to be the case.

I believe you're right that he is very likely to make the roster. But, I think that says a lot more about how thin we are at WR than anything else. I have to think that most other teams would not value him the way we seem to, and if we dropped him today, is there another team in the NFL that would pick him up?

Zay was certainly disappointing as a rookie AND another team picks him up the second we cut him if we were ever stupid enough to do so.  

 

He has talent and aside from some freakshow WRs who have had HOF’s throw to them (Odell/Juju types), the sophomore year is when WRs typically make their biggest jump.  

Edited by SCBills

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1 minute ago, SCBills said:

Zay was certainly disappointing and another team picks him up the second we cut him if we were ever stupid enough to do so.  

 

He has talent and aside from some freakshow WRs who have had HOF’s throw to them (Odell/Juju types), the sophomore year is when WRs typically make their biggest jump.  

Is that true? It strikes me that the sophomore year is when many players have their biggest slump.

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13 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Obviously, his draft position means a lot less after his rookie season. Also, IIRC, his big selling point when he was drafted was not that he was a big playmaker, but that he was the most NFL-ready WR of his class. That has certainly not proven to be the case.

I believe you're right that he is very likely to make the roster. But, I think that says a lot more about how thin we are at WR than anything else. I have to think that most other teams would not value him the way we seem to, and if we dropped him today, is there another team in the NFL that would pick him up?

I don't agree.  The Bills aren't going to give up on a second round pick after one year, not unless the guy is a bad actor of some kind.   They drafted him because he has talent.   He had a subpar rookie year, but he saw more time than a lot of rookie receivers.   

 

You're better off keeping a talented young guy a year too long than a year too short.   

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I dont have a leg to stand on with this....but I really think that while everyone thinks WR is our biggest weakness.....I have this feeling that we are going to feeling really good about it by the end of the season.

 

Something tells me Zay is gonna make a jump...Kerley is gonna be solid......Brandon Reilly is going to make plays.....and one of the young guys is going to emerge.....allowing us to go into next season looking at OL and defense

 

jmo....and I know is a reach

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4 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Is that true? It strikes me that the sophomore year is when many players have their biggest slump.

No, he's correct.  Not many rookie receivers make a splash, and mostly just the high picks.   There are some exceptions, most guys don't emerge until their second or third years.   I'd guess it relates to learning to read the defenses and learning to be elite route runners, because that's how guys make it in the league.   The guys who are stars in year one are the guys with top-end talent.  That's not Zay, and no one ever thought that's who he is.  

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2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I don't agree.  The Bills aren't going to give up on a second round pick after one year, not unless the guy is a bad actor of some kind.   They drafted him because he has talent.   He had a subpar rookie year, but he saw more time than a lot of rookie receivers.   

 

You're better off keeping a talented young guy a year too long than a year too short.   

To the bolded quotes:

An argument could be made for the former, but I certainly agree with the latter.

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2 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

To the bolded quotes:

An argument could be made for the former, but I certainly agree with the latter.

The reason I think you don't cut a second round pick after one year is that the one thing that the scouts can evaluate with a high degree of certainty is raw physical talent.   The guys with superior raw physical talent get drafted in the first two rounds.  They're just physically better.   

 

Now, being physically better isn't all it takes to be a success in the league, but its the one characteristic that a player can't change.  The guy taken in the second round is always going to be physically better than the guy taken in the fifth round.   The fifth rounder can make the team by being smarter, working harder, etc., but he's always going to be beaten out by the second rounder who's as smart and works as hard.   

 

It takes most rookies a year to learn to survive in the league.   It's in his second year that he really starts learning and playing the position.   So you have to wait a year to see what a year's experience will do for him.   

 

The best free agents are the guys drafted in the second round, coming off their rookie contract after having underperformed.   They have experience, they have superior talent, and they probably will succeed with a change of scenery.   You don't want to lose those guys; you want to develop them.   So you don't cut them unless they're problems.  

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4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

No, he's correct.  Not many rookie receivers make a splash, and mostly just the high picks.   There are some exceptions, most guys don't emerge until their second or third years.   I'd guess it relates to learning to read the defenses and learning to be elite route runners, because that's how guys make it in the league.   The guys who are stars in year one are the guys with top-end talent.  That's not Zay, and no one ever thought that's who he is.  

Then there's guys like Karlos Williams, and John Miller...

 

I know that Zay wasn't supposed to be the top-end, playmaking star WR. What he was supposed to be was consistent, and NFL-ready. He's been none of that. 

 

For the record, I'm not trying to hate on him, and I'm not advocating to cut him. But, at the same time, I don't think he should be valued above any rookie that out-performs him in the preseason, and it boggles my mind that he continues to be considered by many to be the "presumed #2."

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

The reason I think you don't cut a second round pick after one year is that the one thing that the scouts can evaluate with a high degree of certainty is raw physical talent.   The guys with superior raw physical talent get drafted in the first two rounds.  They're just physically better.   

 

Now, being physically better isn't all it takes to be a success in the league, but its the one characteristic that a player can't change.  The guy taken in the second round is always going to be physically better than the guy taken in the fifth round.   The fifth rounder can make the team by being smarter, working harder, etc., but he's always going to be beaten out by the second rounder who's as smart and works as hard.   

 

It takes most rookies a year to learn to survive in the league.   It's in his second year that he really starts learning and playing the position.   So you have to wait a year to see what a year's experience will do for him.   

 

The best free agents are the guys drafted in the second round, coming off their rookie contract after having underperformed.   They have experience, they have superior talent, and they probably will succeed with a change of scenery.   You don't want to lose those guys; you want to develop them.   So you don't cut them unless they're problems.  

Then this may be where Jones is an outlier. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, Jones wasn't projected to be a stud physical specimen, or outstanding playmaker, but as someone who had an enormous amount of playing time, who had started for four years in college, and had reliable hands-- someone who would be consistent, and ready to play day one. 

 

But, this is just my recollection from last year.

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16 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

Then there's guys like Karlos Williams, and John Miller...

 

I know that Zay wasn't supposed to be the top-end, playmaking star WR. What he was supposed to be was consistent, and NFL-ready. He's been none of that. 

 

For the record, I'm not trying to hate on him, and I'm not advocating to cut him. But, at the same time, I don't think he should be valued above any rookie that out-performs him in the preseason, and it boggles my mind that he continues to be considered by many to be the "presumed #2."

Then this may be where Jones is an outlier. Because, correct me if I'm wrong, Jones wasn't projected to be a stud physical specimen, or outstanding playmaker, but as someone who had an enormous amount of playing time, who had started for four years in college, and had reliable hands-- someone who would be consistent, and ready to play day one. 

 

But, this is just my recollection from last year.

Yes, he may be an outlier.  He may be a failure.   But he was far from an utter failure last year.   He may have underperformed expectations, but he wasn't a disaster.   You keep him to see how he develops. 

 

Yes, your recollection is correct.   You describe him as he was billed.   But that's the same description as for Austin Proehl.   Why did one go in the second and one in the seventh?  They didn't make a five round mistake on Zay.   Austin Proehl wishes he had the physical characteristics Jones has and showed in college.  

 

You just don't cut second round talent after one year unless there's something wrong with him.

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Posted (edited)

I believe it's high likely that Benjamin, Jones, Kerley, and Holmes make the roster. That leaves, at most, two spots open.

So the question becomes: who takes the final two spots? 

Brandon Reilly
Ray Ray McCloud
Austin Proehl
Robert foster
Malachi Dupre
Rod Streater
Quan Bray

Two of the top four listed guys seem likely to me.

 

Edited by Logic

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