THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - Credit Where Credit Is Due

[HappyDays]

I'm very optimistic about our defense moving forward. But this regime hasn't done one thing that proves to me they know how to build an offense. Obviously they haven't had enough time to really do that yet, but I won't be as hopeful as you are Shaw until I see the results. Winning press conferences is the easy part.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, TheElectricCompany said:

If we want to talk about great defenses, it comes down to pass rushers & playmakers in the secondary. You want both! 

 

 

Agreed. But that doesn't mean we need to pay too dollar for multiple corners/DBs in this scheme for it to work well. Micah Hyde is making average starter salary at safety (iirc), but he's a playmaker. The Bills got great value out of his contract last season. Part of that is him, part of it is scheme. Josh Norman was a late round selection, but he flourished in the cover 3 scheme in Carolina. Not so much in Washington as a man to man corner. The Panthers initially franchised him, but quickly changed their minds. 

 

All I'm saying is that I don't expect the Bills to spend long term big bucks across the board in the secondary as long as Beane and McDermott are here. I think they take care of the front 7 first. 

 

Our secondary was the best unit on the team last year, and they did it with a terrible pass rush. With a good one, they could be dominant.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Drunken Pygmy Goat

[Jay_Fixit]

Which two head coaches in a row quit? Ryan was pretty much fired. Marrone opted out (yeah quit)..

 

@Binghamton Beast

From Jay_Fixit

Edited May 22, 2018 by Jay_Fixit

[Shaw66]

49 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I'm very optimistic about our defense moving forward. But this regime hasn't done one thing that proves to me they know how to build an offense. Obviously they haven't had enough time to really do that yet, but I won't be as hopeful as you are Shaw until I see the results. Winning press conferences is the easy part.

This regime hasn't done ONE thing that proves they know how to build an offense?   Really?   I think you're wrong, pal.

 

One way you build an offense is you draft a great QB prospect in the top 10.  That's how the Falcons did it.  That's how the Steelers did it.  That's how the Eagles did it.   Now, maybe the Bills drafted the wrong QB, but the way to build an offense is to draft a highly rated QB, and this regime did that.   

 

They also acquired the best wideout the Bills have had in years.   

 

So that's two things they've done.   

 

Give 'em a little credit.   

8 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Which two head coaches in a row quit? 

 

@Binghamton Beast

From Jay_Fixit

Marrone and Ryan

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

IMO, McBean's model for building a team is to allocate more resources to the front 7. Builld from the inside out. Based on scheme, this defense doesn't seem to need high dollar, premiere talent at CB. It's much more zone, and good "man" corners typically get the most money. The scheme IMO isn't as dependent on having great corners, as it is creating havoc up front. A good line and front 7 will make the DB's jobs easier. Granted, they could have had White and Darby for at least two years, but it was clear that the Bills needed a QB, and gaining draft assets makes attaining one a bit easier. Darby had a bit of a down year after a really good rookie year, and maybe the Bills get less in return for him if he would have been traded now, with it being his contract year. 

 

This is right on the money.

 

I say all the time that McDermott is following the Belichick model.   Belichick doesn't need two shut-down corners, he plays most seasons without one, let alone two.   When he can get one, he takes one, but he doesn't want to pay for them.   He can without them.   

 

So when the Bills realized what they had in White, Darby, no matter how good you may think he is, became expendable.   The more time left on his rookie deal, the better value the Bills could get in the trade, so they let him go.   

 

You're right about about front-seven.   Look at the past four months - four important acquisitions for the defensive front seven.   

 

The most important positions play closest to the ball.

 

And if you can afford to work on only side of the ball at a time, fixing the defense makes your team more competitive quickly than fixing the offense.   If you hold your opponents under 20, you have a chance to win every game.   

[TheElectricCompany]

Even the Browns can pick a top QB prospect high in the draft. That's the easy part. 

Do we have the right system in place to develop a QB? The only thing I know for certain is that we have an elite RB, and that helps young QBs. The rest is TBD. 

Kelvin Benjamin didn't do jack for us last year. He is arguably a regressing player. 

I hope I'm wrong. 

 

[WhoTom]

26 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Which two head coaches in a row quit? Ryan was pretty much fired. Marrone opted out (yeah quit)..

 

@Binghamton Beast

From Jay_Fixit

 

Right. When they told Rex to start EJ in the last game, he asked about his future and Mr. Pegula said, "We're probably going in a different direction," so Rex said, "Just fire me now." He was definitely fired, because his contract was guaranteed. If he had quit, he'd have lost all that money.

 

Edited May 22, 2018 by WhoTom

[Jay_Fixit]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Marrone and Ryan

 

 

I say all the time that McDermott is following the Belichick model.   Belichick doesn't need two shut-down corners, he plays most seasons without one, let alone two.   When he can get one, he takes one, but he doesn't want to pay for them.   He can without them.   

 

So when the Bills realized what they had in White, Darby, no matter how good you may think he is, became expendable.   The more time left on his rookie deal, the better value the Bills could get in the trade, so they let him go.   

 

You're right about about front-seven.   Look at the past four months - four important acquisitions for the de

Ryan was fired.

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

This regime hasn't done ONE thing that proves they know how to build an offense?   Really?   I think you're wrong, pal.

 

One way you build an offense is you draft a great QB prospect in the top 10.  That's how the Falcons did it.  That's how the Steelers did it.  That's how the Eagles did it.   Now, maybe the Bills drafted the wrong QB, but the way to build an offense is to draft a highly rated QB, and this regime did that.   

 

They also acquired the best wideout the Bills have had in years.   

 

So that's two things they've done.   

 

Give 'em a little credit.   

 

I will give them credit for one move - trading up for Dion Dawkins. Right now that is looking like a very good move. Every other move they made on offense last year looks bad for right now. Trading up for Zay Jones, awful. Trading for Kelvin Benjamin, undecided at best? He had known knee problems and never really put it all together in Carolina but we'll see what he does this year. Starting Ducasse over Miller, bad. Hiring Dennison/changing the run scheme, bad. Starting Peterman against the Chargers, awful.

What have they done that makes you confident? Buddy Nix drafted a QB in the 1st round too. Having a plan isn't the same as making good decisions. So far I've loved the decisions they've made on defense but mostly disliked what they've done of offense. That being said they have the next 2 years to put an offense together so I'm not saying they definitely can't do it, just that they haven't proven anything yet.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

I will give them credit for one move - trading up for Dion Dawkins. Right now that is looking like a very good move. Every other move they made on offense last year looks bad for right now. Trading up for Zay Jones, awful. Trading for Kelvin Benjamin, undecided at best? He had known knee problems and never really put it all together in Carolina but we'll see what he does this year. Starting Ducasse over Miller, bad. Hiring Dennison/changing the run scheme, bad. Starting Peterman against the Chargers, awful.

What have they done that makes you confident? Buddy Nix drafted a QB in the 1st round too. Having a plan isn't the same as making good decisions. So far I've loved the decisions they've made on defense but mostly disliked what they've done of offense. That being said they have the next 2 years to put an offense together so I'm not saying they definitely can't do it, just that they haven't proven anything yet.

First, you keep saying I'm confident.   I didn't say that.   I said the Pegulas have put the house in order.

 

Second, it's okay if you want to take the position that no move is a good move until it turns out to be a good move.   However, it's impossible to be a GM with that philosophy, because you have to take chances all along.   Most fans at least evaluate the decisions along with the GM.   Your method means NO 2018 draft pick was a good pick, because the guy hasn't played yet.   Fine, if you want to do that.

 

Most people, however, look evaluate as they go.   So, for me, Benjamin is a starting receiver with two 1000 yard seasons under his belt (well, almost, and a particular valuable guy in the short- to mid-range passing game, which is about all that works in the NFL these days.   For me, Zay Jones is an open question, because most receivers, include first-round guys, don't produce much as rookies.  So Benjamin doesn't look bad, just hasn't worked out yet.  Jones doesn't look bad.  Allen doesn't look bad.   

 

Ducasse?   First, I'm not sure why you think Miller was better, when the Bills coaches so clearly liked Ducasse.   This site: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2755358-nfl1000-ranking-the-top-offensive-guards-of-2017-season#slide0 says Ducasse was the 33rd best guard in the league, which would make him solidly average, and ranks Miller at 50.   So I'm not buying that Ducasse was bad.  

 

To each his own.  

[SoCal Deek]

Nice write up Shaw and I’m glad you prefaced it with the fact that the Bills haven’t really won much of anything...yet. Professional sports is a results business like no other. We’re all going to see whether last season was an aberration or a trend. I’m hoping it was the latter but wins and losses are hard to hide. If Allen flames out, this Team is right back where they started.

 

Go Bills

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Nice write up Shaw and I’m glad you prefaced it with the fact that the Bills haven’t really won much of anything...yet. Professional sports is a results business like no other. We’re all going to see whether last season was an aberration or a trend. I’m hoping it was the latter but wins and losses are hard to hide. If Allen flames out, this Team is right back where they started.

 

Go Bills

All true.   But it sure is nice to root for a team that isn't so obviously disorganized.  It's nice to root for a team that is going to get the most out of its players.   It's nice to root for a team that says - and believes - that every position is subject to an open competition.   It's nice to root for a team with the courage to say, "You know what?   Sammy just isn't doing it for us.   Let's move on."  

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

All true.   But it sure is nice to root for a team that isn't so obviously disorganized.  It's nice to root for a team that is going to get the most out of its players.   It's nice to root for a team that says - and believes - that every position is subject to an open competition.   It's nice to root for a team with the courage to say, "You know what?   Sammy just isn't doing it for us.   Let's move on."  

 

 

Shaw...you say that now but if the Bills are 2-14 in December, and Josh Allen looks like a train wreck, we’ll see how long that optimism lasts. You and I are both hoping that’s not so!

[Shaw66]

52 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Shaw...you say that now but if the Bills are 2-14 in December, and Josh Allen looks like a train wreck, we’ll see how long that optimism lasts. You and I are both hoping that’s not so!

Of course, of course, of course. 

 

But all we have to evaluate is the last week, the last month and the last year.  And the basic question is do these people - Kim, Terry, Brandon and Sean - look like they know what they're doing?    For me, the answer is a resounding yes.   Why?   Because as I wrote, starting from where they were January 15, 2017, it looks and feels like they've been doing the right stuff.     People can argue about whether Allen was a mistake, Sammy, Marcel, Kelvin, Darby.   Fine.  I get that.   People can argue.  People can argue about the emphasis on the defense instead of building an oline or going after another receiver.   Fine, but there was only so much cap room, and there were only so many draft picks.   You can't rebuild the entire team in one season.   People can argue about whether rebuilding was necessary.  But

 

where are the obvious mistakes?   The biggest mistake, so far as we can tell right now, was starting Peterman. That's it, in a year and a half.   And that's my point.   From a fan base in revolt, for pretty good reasons, we've moved on to a fan base looking forward to the 2018 season at least with enthusiasm, and many with downright optimism.   That accomplishment alone is worth recognizing. 

[Beast]

5 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said:

Which two head coaches in a row quit? Ryan was pretty much fired. Marrone opted out (yeah quit)..

 

@Binghamton Beast

From Jay_Fixit

 

I’m not sure, Jay- by Binghamton Beast

[stuvian]

Everything about this regime feels right. With the departure of Brandon we have no more vestiges of the decade of fail. There is most definitely a method at play here. What I like the most is the lack of complacency. If someone doesn't measure up or buy in, they are gone. With the exception of Dareus, we have been skillful at turning old regime guys into assets. I suspect the handling of Dareus was done more for optics than for value. It wasn't that long ago that we extended players simply because they agreed to stay here - such was our operational MO. It's rather sad to think about how we viewed ourselves.

 

I am most surprised at the firing of Rick Dennison. Not because I think our offense was good but because he was part of the new regime and is gone after one year. Clearly every aspect of the team has targets for production and there is no sentiment if they aren't met. Still I wonder just what were the expectations for our offense? We certainly didn't open things up or get aggressive. We played not to lose.  Did they really think we could win with TT?

 

It is going to be interesting going forward to see how personnel matters are handled with guys Beane has brought in. Will he dispense as easily with his acquisitions as he did with Doug Whaley's if things don't work out. Will he dump all veterans who are seeking a salary near the top of those at their position? I'm sure they have their answer. I can't think of one player on our roster who is paid near the top of league scale for his position. Maybe players aren't playing as many years as in eras past. 

 

I like that we have hedged our bets at QB with Allen and McCarron. I am comfortable that we didn't overpay for moving up to get Allen. I like that we were aggressive in pursuing a franchise QB but not to the point of mortgaging the future. 

 

The next delicate issue is how are we going to adjust to the fact that Shady is a high mileage RB on the downside of his prime. I'm sure our front office has the answer. Unlike the old regime we won't wait for confirmation that our playbook isn't working before acting and I'm going to enjoy watching it unfold.

[Punching Bag]

Dennison clearly did not want to or was told not to have an offense Tailor made for Taylor. 

The question is whose idea was to change the offense scheme, specifically blocking scheme, Dennison or the OL coach / run game coordinator?  This is the what caused Vladimir Ducasse to be more valuable than John Miller and Ducasse came with Castillo implying new run scheme was Castillo's idea (and Castillo was here first, first hire).

 

As I have stated elsewhere Coach McDermott is too quick to dump to make changes and to mean it means he does not investigate enough before firing or hiring and that is a trend I do not want to see in future.

 

[Shaw66]

Stu and LImeaid both mention Dennison.

 

I agree with Stu - I was surprised by the quick firing of Dennison.   I like it.   McDermott decided Dennison wasn't the right guy, and he wasn't going to waste time trying for a second season to make it work. 

 

I also agree with Limeaid that you have to wonder about the hiring of Dennison in the first place.   It was a mistake, and I would have thought that it was possible to know enough about a guy's offense to figure out whether he's the right guy or not.   And it may have gotten more complicated because Dennison led to Castillo and Castillo.  (I for one still am not convinced that Ducasse was a problem.   Miller struggled late in his rookie season, and if Miller was all that good, he shouldn't have lost his job.   Yes, it may have been a different scheme and Ducasse may have fit it better.  But if that was the case, as long as you're playing that scheme, you have to play Ducasse.)

 

But what LImeaid says just means that McDermott made a mistake.  What I like about the firing is that McDermott recognized the mistake (just like with Peterman, he owned it, and he moved on.   And, by the way, I like the Daboll hire.  He hasn't had great success in the pros, but he's been learning and growing and he could be a good choice.   

[Punching Bag]

This mistake is why some do not have confidence in Coach McD's ability to put together an Offensive team.

This attitude of dumping baby with bath water is why I changed name from Koolaid to Limeaid.

 

It was not just the OC.  The selection of Phil McGeoghan as WR coach lead to drafting of Zay Jones as WR and clearly he was not ready for NFL and McGeoghan's previous experience as WR coach does not show ability to develop WRs.  Considering performance against Chargers I think it was ironic that Chargers signed Phil McGeoghan.

 

I do not blame Coach McD on Mike Waufle on retiring.  Dealing with Darius probably encouraged him to retire.

 

I am assuming Bobbie Babich was signed as courtesy to father who coaches linebackers and this kind of nepotism is common in NFL. I just hope he is as effective as Byrd was in teaching safeties techniques since father has had no positional coach experience with safeties.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:

Beane did get outmaneuvered by the Jets because the Jets were way ahead of him in their QB evaluations. So the Jets were able to make their move early and lock in at 3, before the Bills even had their Qb draft board set.

 

Others have said something like this.

 

I don't know that I believe it.  I think it's quite possible the Jets and Bills had different QB boards.

 

I think the Jets knew early on that there were at least 3 QB they valued enough to pick in the top 3, and they valued them all closely enough on their initial board that any of the three would be valued in the top 3.  So it made sense for them to trade up to the 3rd pick.

 

I think Beane felt early on, there were possibly two QB they valued enough, not 3, and they valued them differently.  So it did not make sense for the Bills to trade up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. 

 

Now of course it's possible that Beane got "outmaneuvered" and "Jets were way ahead in their QB evaluations".  But I think that latter part misunderstands the draft evaluation process.  Remember Beane said in his combine interview that he had "told his guys to set the draft board as if we were drafting tomorrow" and then they would revisit the board after the combine/pro day/workout/predraft visit process.

 

On March 17, when the Jets made the trade, the Jets and the Bills were likely in the same place on their QB e v a l.  They simply had a different perspective about it.

 

[BadLandsMeanie]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Others have said something like this.

 

I don't know that I believe it.  I think it's quite possible the Jets and Bills had different QB boards.

 

I think the Jets knew early on that there were at least 3 QB they valued enough to pick in the top 3, and they valued them all closely enough on their initial board that any of the three would be valued in the top 3.  So it made sense for them to trade up to the 3rd pick.

 

I think Beane felt early on, there were possibly two QB they valued enough, not 3, and they valued them differently.  So it did not make sense for the Bills to trade up to the 2nd or 3rd pick. 

 

Now of course it's possible that Beane got "outmaneuvered" and "Jets were way ahead in their QB evaluations".  But I think that latter part misunderstands the draft evaluation process.  Remember Beane said in his combine interview that he had "told his guys to set the draft board as if we were drafting tomorrow" and then they would revisit the board after the combine/pro day/workout/predraft visit process.

 

On March 17, when the Jets made the trade, the Jets and the Bills were likely in the same place on their QB e v a l.  They simply had a different perspective about it.

 

Maybe but Iooked into it a bit. Beane had said he had not met with all of them yet. And they he didn't have his board finalized. And the Jets were reported to have done way more work on this early on. But since everyone is lying all the time about the draft, you never know!