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77% were wrong believing our HC wouldn't be fooled by the mirage of preseason, but the Allen Era begins week 2!

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 6:56 AM, MDH said:

Allen's biggest issue - his footwork - would be helped by not playing immediately. He needs thousands and thousands of reps to fix his footwork so it's muscle memory and not something he has to think about. It's been shown time and time again that when a player gets thrown into action too soon he just reverts back to his sloppy mechanics because instinct takes over. The sooner Josh Allen plays the less likely he ever fixes his footwork. 

 

I'm interested in Allen being the long term solution for the Bills and not someone they just throw out there hoping he's better than the other crap they have at QB this year. If that means sitting for a year then so be it. Personally, I want a QB who is better than Cam Newton and without fixing his footwork I see that as Allen's ceiling right now.

 

First of all, if the coaches view Allen's mechanics as being below a certain threshold for NFL Quarterbacking, I'm sure he'll be on the bench until they're confident they're fixed.

 

But I think his footwork problems are overblown.  Yes, he has documented issues with footwork in college.  But the footwork issues seemed to be more about inconsistency than bad habits.  It was more that sometimes he would throw off his back leg or sometimes he wouldn't point his left foot in the direction he was going to throw or sometimes he wouldn't square his hips.  But sometimes he would do everything exactly right.

 

I'm not expert enough on the QB position regarding footwork and haven't watched every one of his snaps or every one of all the other rookie QB snaps to know how often this was a problem or how much more of a problem it was for him than it was for, say, Sam Darnold or Baker Mayfield.  But I've read varying analyses that the footwork improved from 2016-2018... plus there's the supposed work he did with Jordan Palmer all offseason.

 

But I just don't think lower body mechanics (footwork) are nearly as concerning as the upper body mechanics, which Allen has down pretty well as he looks like a completely natural thrower of the football, unlike that other 1st round rookie we drafted 5 years ago, who legitimately needed to sit on the bench because he just wasn't a natural passer.

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 7:06 AM, Lfod said:

Let's be honest, you only want Allen to start because your impatient. I think everyone would want Allen to win the job and be the face of the franchise.

 

Unfortunately the team just doesn't have a strong offenseive foundation to throw a first round draft pick in and expect him to be the X factor in everything else gelling around him. 

 

You don't consider we have an offence in transition. You don't consider a new scheme and a new OC is in the building. Obviously the smart thing to do is protect the draft pick and sacrifice the Vet. At least until you feel that the offense has a rythm and you feel you can pull the Vet put in the rookie and get better results. If that rythm happens in preseason then fine do it. 

 

You would risk your draft pick long before you even know if it's really the right choice or not. Your only logic is that he was a first round pick and others have done it so can he. Different teams with different situations isn't a factor. 

 

I voted AJ wins the starting job. I'm not any kind of an expert but I do think putting in AJ first to see what you have and being protective of your first round pick until your more comfortable with the offenseive situation is the smartest choice and I believe McDermott is the same way. 

 

You can not start Allen and be wrong. It's not a situation you can get cute with just because you want to know what you have immediately. 

 

Let's be honest...  no.

 

No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient.

 

Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here.  Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does.  And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan.

 

But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1.  What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets.

 

You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such.  I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory.

 

Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously.

 

But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense.  He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen.  Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means.

 

I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen.  And I think McDermott brought him in because of that.

 

 

You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen.  McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too.  His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts.

 

Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie.  I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience.

 

This is a new era of the NFL.  It's not David Carr's era.  Lots of QB-friendly rules.  So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason.

 

High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs.  Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice.

 

 

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The best guy will start.  The best guy will be McCarron

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18 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Let's be honest...  no.

 

No, I do not only want Allen to start because I'm impatient.

 

Yes, however, I'll readily admit there's impatience involved here.  Forgive me if I'm a little impatient seeing my favorite team go over 20 years without a Franchise QB and if that plays a role here... it does.  And I think it naturally should for any Bills fan.

 

But my impatience is NOT what drives my belief that Allen probably should and probably will start a significant chunk of games this season, if not week #1.  What drives that belief for me is that Allen is clearly the more talented QB physically and, more importantly, he has the mental fortitude and work ethic to learn the position while on the field taking live bullets.

 

You seem to be operating under the assumption that everything is an unknown on offense and that McDermott will and should treat it as such.  I think that's pretty naïve considering McDermott actively sought Dabol as his new OC and has a year's worth more familiarity with all of his offensive players who'll contribute this year with the exception of guys we've acquired like Bodine and Ivory.

 

Dabol is the biggest change for the offense... other than QB, obviously.

 

But Dabol also have a (very recent) history of being very adaptable in his offense based on who's under center while still running an effective offense.  He also said specifically that he has a plan for Allen.  Now, maybe that plan is "you're going to sit on the bench the entire year and stay on my hip and learn," but that's not what he thinks he means.

 

I want Allen to start, in part, because I think Dabol will be very smart about the game plans and playbook and the way he handles Allen.  And I think McDermott brought him in because of that.

 

 

You're right, we have an offense in transition and we have a new offensive scheme but it's in transition and new scheme for every single player we have on offense, not just Allen.  McCarron's going to be learning the new offense, too.  His only leg up in this is 4 years he had on the bench behind Dalton (in a different offense from the one we'll be running) and his whopping 3 NFL starts and 133 meaningful pass attempts.

 

Your mentality clearly is to just throw the vet to the wolves, even if he's not better, because it'll be better for the rookie.  I disagree completely, and that has nothing to do with impatience.

 

This is a new era of the NFL.  It's not David Carr's era.  Lots of QB-friendly rules.  So unless our OL is completely in absolute shambles and they can't protect Allen at all, you make sure you start whoever the better guy is through minicamps, training camp and preseason.

 

High rookie draft picks typically don't need to sit anymore if they have the right stuff upstairs.  Allen might hit a rookie wall if he starts the way Wentz did in his rookie year, but that doesn't mean starting him was a bad choice.

 

 

The bolded is correct 100%. Even if Josh Allen is better I would rather still throw AJ to the wolves to start the season. I want to see Dabolls offence in operation with a vet backup over a rookie QB regulardless of each QBs skill level. 

 

You admitted your feeling a little impatient and I'll admit I'm over protective of our first round pick. It's more then just Josh Allen, it's the reputation of McDermott and Beane that I don't want put in danger. 

 

Although we actually agree when it comes to the middle ground. I want Allen to start in games this season. Just not start the first game or four games. I want the offense warmed up in the scheme before the rookie takes the wheels. 

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2 hours ago, Lfod said:

The bolded is correct 100%. Even if Josh Allen is better I would rather still throw AJ to the wolves to start the season. I want to see Dabolls offence in operation with a vet backup over a rookie QB regulardless of each QBs skill level. 

 

You admitted your feeling a little impatient and I'll admit I'm over protective of our first round pick. It's more then just Josh Allen, it's the reputation of McDermott and Beane that I don't want put in danger. 

 

Although we actually agree when it comes to the middle ground. I want Allen to start in games this season. Just not start the first game or four games. I want the offense warmed up in the scheme before the rookie takes the wheels. 

 

Fair enough... I understand your position, I just think you're being too absolute about a situation that started unfolding 2 days ago.

 

Maybe you're setting the bar as low as possible so as not to be disappointed. Maybe you legitimately think Allen will need that time to adjust despite the fact that the other rookie 1st round QBs recently haven't because Allen is significantly more raw.

 

But wouldn't it be more refreshing to see Allen win the QB competition and then start the season in those first 4 games you're afraid to throw him in?

 

Of course you're going to say something like "yes, but I don't think that's going to happen."

 

And that's fine. I just think there's a better chance of that happening than you do. And all my feelings are subject to change as we see how the Summer unfolds.

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On 5/22/2018 at 4:30 AM, Seanbillsfan2206 said:

If Peterman is starting week 1 then we’re in a lot of trouble this season. The only way I see him starting is if AJ and Josh are both out

 

Or if McDermott lost a bet 😂😂

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20 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think it's McCarron's job to lose, but I also think Peterman is going to light it up in camp and he'll get a look as a week one starter with McCarron coming in week 2. 

 

I think Peterman will likely not get the reps to win a camp battle and emerge as a week 1 starter, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if he made significant strides and became a legitimate back-up QB.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/22/2018 at 7:44 AM, ShadyBillsFan said:

 

I still say that McDermott had his hands tied with 4 of 5 bad games with TT under center and he felt he had to do something.  And as stated McDermott didn’t hesitate to correct his error.  

 

You would say wrong, pretty clearly. 

 

Unless you're an idiot, you can't find 4 bad games for Taylor in the stretch of Cincy, Tampa, Oakland, NYJ and NO.

 

You're probably one of the guys spending time in the Taylor hate thread right now. Pretty sad. Just let go.

 

 

I still say that, as reported from sources within, McDermott had his hands tied by Dennison, who wanted Taylor benched because he believed (incorrectly, obviously) that Peterman would be better in his offense.

On 5/22/2018 at 5:39 PM, Lfod said:

Well if the guy was right a lot Tyrod will still be in discussion for the Bills starting role and this would be a thread about that. 

 

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Edited by transplantbillsfan
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7 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

The best guy will start.  The best guy will be McCarron

 

Might be.

 

Might not.

 

I think, as of right now, the best guy will start, too, but it's not McCarron.

 

I think those 4 years on the bench in a completely different offense with  3 NFL starts and about 130 meaningful NFL pass attempts aren't going to give him the leg up on the guy who's more talented as a QB, bigger, more athletic and smarter that you think it will.

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I think mccarron will start because they don't want to kill Allen early on, our first few games are brutal defenses.

Unless Allen looks like a pro bowl player from the get go in preseason, AND the oline looks like it clicks immediately when all the new faces (which I don't see happening), I don't see him starting early on.

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On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 11:27 PM, billsredneck1 said:

Marvin Lewis was never going to allow a QB competition. Dalton is their franchise guy. Those who claim he couldn't beat out Dalton are just showing ignorance...

..

 

It seems pretty ignorant to imply the guy with 4 starts and 170 passing attempts would have beaten out the guy with 113 starts and 3,700 passing attempts had the Head Coach made it an open competition.

 

Andy Dalton's not a great QB... he's what I would say is a borderline Franchise QB, but looking at what that Franchise was before he arrived and then 5 consecutive playoff appearances once he arrived combined with an incredibly limited sample size from McCarron, it's bordering on foolish to insinuate that McCarron would have beaten Dalton out if Marvin Lewis just let him try.

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Can we hope we get cam😂😂😂😂😂

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20 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Fair enough... I understand your position, I just think you're being too absolute about a situation that started unfolding 2 days ago.

 

Maybe you're setting the bar as low as possible so as not to be disappointed. Maybe you legitimately think Allen will need that time to adjust despite the fact that the other rookie 1st round QBs recently haven't because Allen is significantly more raw.

 

But wouldn't it be more refreshing to see Allen win the QB competition and then start the season in those first 4 games you're afraid to throw him in?

 

Of course you're going to say something like "yes, but I don't think that's going to happen."

 

And that's fine. I just think there's a better chance of that happening than you do. And all my feelings are subject to change as we see how the Summer unfolds.

Yea it's true I really don't think it will happen. Not the part about Allen being the best QB out of camp. Just the part about him starting. My opinion isn't fact and I know that. 

 

Yes it would be more refreshing to see Allen win the job and start the season. I've given my reasons I feel I want them to be cautious because the value of investment and the reputations on the line. I don't have to be right about it. I just would be frustrated if they did start him and it was the wrong move and he ends up with a season ending injury or they pull him for AJ is all. 

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This kinda stuff from Fairburn excites me!!!

 

Josh Allen's day

Josh Allen was the most impressive quarterback on the field Thursday. By my count, he attempted to 21 passes and only three hit the ground. Some were of the shorter variety, but Allen was ripping some deeper throws as well. He hit Austin Proehl on an impressive throw to the sideline outside the numbers. His two touchdowns were the highlights, though. Allen ripped an in-breaking route over a defender and into the hands of fellow rookie Ray-Ray McCloud for a touchdown. Later in practice, he hit Travaris Cadet in the end zone for a back-shoulder touchdown. If the idea of putting him with the third team was to build his confidence. it might be working.

 

Yes yes yes yes... I understand it's just OTAs :nana:

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11 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

It seems pretty ignorant to imply the guy with 4 starts and 170 passing attempts would have beaten out the guy with 113 starts and 3,700 passing attempts had the Head Coach made it an open competition.

 

Andy Dalton's not a great QB... he's what I would say is a borderline Franchise QB, but looking at what that Franchise was before he arrived and then 5 consecutive playoff appearances once he arrived combined with an incredibly limited sample size from McCarron, it's bordering on foolish to insinuate that McCarron would have beaten Dalton out if Marvin Lewis just let him try.

The point that I was trying to make is that there was never going to be a competition at QB with that staff yet some put a.j. down saying he couldn't beat out Dalton.

 

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Posted (edited)

Now this is the kinda mentality I Love!

http://www.wivb.com/sports/inside-the-buffalo-huddle/allen-excited-to-compete-against-bills-secondary/1199109623#

Allen excited to compete against Bills secondary

“They’re jumping on balls now. We’ve got guys that are fantastic players -- Micah Hyde, [Jordan] Poyer, and then you’ve got a vet like Vontae Davis out there and he’s pushing our receivers to be better and making sure that, as quarterbacks, we’re putting the ball where it needs to be.

 

Iron sharpens iron.  That’s kind of the mindset that, when you’re practicing, you should have. You should be able to look across to the guy next to you and the guy that you’re competing with and say, ‘I’m going to make you better, you’re going to make me better’ and go at it like that.”

Edited by transplantbillsfan

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It's ridiculously too early to make this type of prediction, but I'll go ahead and pick Allen.

 

I think they want him to play right away and it shouldn't be too hard for him to make the other 2 QBs look bad in training camp/pre-season games.

 

The whole thing will be couched in terms of an "open competition" with no No. 1 etc...but they have their guy and they want the starter to be Allen.

 

It will be sold as Allen giving the team the best chance to win rolling into Week 1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

It's ridiculously too early to make this type of prediction, but I'll go ahead and pick Allen.

 

I think they want him to play right away and it shouldn't be too hard for him to make the other 2 QBs look bad in training camp/pre-season games.

 

The whole thing will be couched in terms of an "open competition" with no No. 1 etc...but they have their guy and they want the starter to be Allen.

 

It will be sold as Allen giving the team the best chance to win rolling into Week 1.

 

Agreed. And I know it's way too early, but that's what makes it fun :thumbsup:

 

If we started predictions after preseason game 1 or something and everyone predicted Allen because Allen looked better for the entire Summer, it's no longer really a prediction, more of a "Thanks Captain Obvious" statement.

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On 5/23/2018 at 11:42 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Fair enough... I understand your position, I just think you're being too absolute about a situation that started unfolding 2 days ago.

 

Maybe you're setting the bar as low as possible so as not to be disappointed. Maybe you legitimately think Allen will need that time to adjust despite the fact that the other rookie 1st round QBs recently haven't because Allen is significantly more raw.

 

But wouldn't it be more refreshing to see Allen win the QB competition and then start the season in those first 4 games you're afraid to throw him in? 

 

Of course you're going to say something like "yes, but I don't think that's going to happen."

 

And that's fine. I just think there's a better chance of that happening than you do. And all my feelings are subject to change as we see how the Summer unfolds.

on the road in balt. and then against the chargers?....oh hell no

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

on the road in balt. and then against the chargers?....oh hell no

 

Well you should just find a way to get McDermott to bubble wrap Allen for a couple years I guess so he doesn't have to be traumatized by an NFL defense and can really shine in 2020 :nana:

Edited by transplantbillsfan
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1 hour ago, billsredneck1 said:

on the road in balt. and then against the chargers?....oh hell no

 

10 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well you should just find a way to get McDermott to bubble wrap Allen for a few years I guess so he doesn't have to be traumatized by an NFL defense and can really shine in 2020 :nana:

 

How do you equate having Josh Allen avoid starting the 1st 4 games (which I agree with) and having him "bubble wrapped" for a few (means more than 2) years?

You are getting  close to "crusade" mode with your reasoning.

 

Nothing Josh Allen will face in Training Camp or Preseason will come close to what he would see from the Raven and Charger defenses those

first 2 weeks.

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Voted McCarron,

 

McCarron seems like the wisest choice in my humble opinion.

 

On the other hand I could see and thoroughly enjoy a scenario where Allen just looks so impressive it causes McD and Co. to consider giving Josh Allen the start.

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38 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

 

How do you equate having Josh Allen avoid starting the 1st 4 games (which I agree with) and having him "bubble wrapped" for a few (means more than 2) years?

You are getting  close to "crusade" mode with your reasoning.

 

Nothing Josh Allen will face in Training Camp or Preseason will come close to what he would see from the Raven and Charger defenses those

first 2 weeks.

 

So keep the NFL QB away from the NFL defenses?

 

If Allen isn't ready or isn't the winner of the QB competition, don't play him.

 

But the notion that we just have to keep him away from the big bad Ravens and Chargers so that we can ease him into seeing an NFL defense no matter how much he impresses in the offseason is just silly.

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I'm just gonna wait til 2 or 3 pre seAson games to make any type of evaluation.

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