Josh Allen red zone stats

[John from Riverside]

On 5/19/2018 at 10:37 AM, Doc Brown said:

I didn't mean it to be.  It just seems people are still fishing for college stats to justify the pick with threads like these. 

Or they realize that this is their qb of the future...not Josh Rosen.....so time to get on board

 

or....wallow in misery.....whats your pleasure?

[Doc Brown]

51 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Or they realize that this is their qb of the future...not Josh Rosen.....so time to get on board

 

or....wallow in misery.....whats your pleasure?

I'm always on board no matter who our QB is.  I'd love to be wrong. 

[Orlando Tim]

On 5/19/2018 at 12:37 PM, Doc Brown said:

I didn't mean it to be.  It just seems people are still fishing for college stats to justify the pick with threads like these. 

If it was not meant to troll I apologize- but to keep talking trash about the pick is pointless. Allen showed lots of promise in college and improved his team drastically. No QB is great in college unless is talent around him is at least good. I teach math as a profession and I love the stats but to look at numbers without context is crazy. Baker Mayfield better beat him in EVERY stat since his team was better than the teams played generally even without great QB play. Not true in Wyoming.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Championship

 

 

[Elite Poster]

On 5/19/2018 at 10:10 AM, BB@Shooter said:

 If it is good news, bury it. If it is negative, exploit it. And there you have it. Haters gonna hate.

 

No he just didn't have many good stats. That is the truth.

[Prickly Pete]

On ‎5‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 12:47 AM, Doc Brown said:

hSo, it only took five or so months of QB draft talk to finally pick an area Allen came in 1st with.

 

No, in fact right from the start his arm strength was considered #1. I believe he is the biggest of the top 4 (6'5" 222), and there's his Wonderlic score too.

 

So that's size, arm, and cognitive ability. He may have the quickest release, too(not certain)..... anyway, cross that joke off your list.

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2018 by OJABBA

[theRalph]

On 5/18/2018 at 10:52 PM, Lfod said:

That's good to know. I like knowing more positive things about him. 

Then ck this out if you haven't already...

https://youtu.be/VOBj9pnY9s0

 

[BB@Shooter]

14 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

No he just didn't have many good stats. That is the truth.

You wouldn't know the truth it if waylayed you. Go ahead, post some numbers and support your theory. He was in a run first offense. He didn't get to pad his stats. Look at his record. He won 8 games while sitting out 2 and a half games. If he wouldn't have gotten hurt he would have won 10 games. States don't show how a person plays. Maybe actually watch some games and understand what the reasons for his stats are. But lazy posters would rather throw out easy posts, but can't defend their posts.  You sound like a bandwagon type, you will jump on soon enough.  Until then, wallow in the fact he is your quarterback.  I am loving it.

[BigDingus]

On 5/19/2018 at 5:23 AM, Azucho98 said:

HIs competition was garbage remember? lol

 

I know you're being sarcastic, but considering he threw for 1 TD & 8 INT's against Power 5 schools, I don't think his redzone percentage would look that good against the teams those other QB's played against.

On 5/19/2018 at 11:21 AM, PrimeTime101 said:

so was his offensive line, So was his WR's.. So is this post its lazy

 

So were the DB's he played against. So were the linebackers he played against. So were the D-lines he played against. So were the coaches he played against. 

And in the MWC, he wasn't even voted as one of the QB's to the All-Conference team. Lol that means other QB's from those crappy schools with their crappy lines and their crappy WR's somehow managed to outclass him. 

The talent he played with doesn't matter when everyone else has a level playing field.

[Scorp83]

On 5/18/2018 at 10:29 PM, ClemsonBills said:

This is also when it’s more challenging to read and diagnose coverages. Allen is going to surprise people 

Cocaine is a powerful drug sir.... please get some help. We won't judge you after this post.

On 5/18/2018 at 10:52 PM, Lfod said:

That's good to know. I like knowing more positive things about him. 

... 

On 5/20/2018 at 6:05 PM, John from Riverside said:

Or they realize that this is their qb of the future...not Josh Rosen.....so time to get on board

 

or....wallow in misery.....whats your pleasure?

Funny you say this... Apparently Josh Rosen is lighting it up at camp... they said he already knows half the playbook ...its only MAY! Then he's taking command of the huddle. He's also going against Sam Bradford...DJ & Brooks both said they would not be surprise if he's rookie of the year... 

 

This was reported on Move The Sticks Podcast ... 

 

Bills made a big mistake passing on Rosen...for Allen

 

You people need to take off your Bill shades for a min... leave the matrix, & stopping being naive, selling yourself on this guy. At least see what he does before thinking he's somewhat good...because EVERY stat & Game you watch of his, shows he's not going to make it. Man wake up people

Edited May 24, 2018 by Scorp83

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

Cocaine is a powerful drug sir.... please get some help. We won't judge you after this post.

... 

Funny you say this... Apparently Josh Rosen is lighting it up at camp... they said he already knows half the playbook ...its only MAY! Then he's taking command of the huddle. He's also going against Sam Bradford...DJ & Brooks both said they would not be surprise if he's rookie of the year... 

 

This was reported on Move The Sticks Podcast ... 

 

Bills made a big mistake passing on Rosen...for Allen

 

You people need to take off your Bill shades for a min... leave the matrix, & stopping being naive, selling yourself on this guy. At least see what he does before thinking he's somewhat good...because EVERY stat & Game you watch of his, shows he's not going to make it. Man wake up people

You can make plausible arguments supporting or opposing any of the top qbs selected in the draft.  It's a little odd, however, that one should take rumored reports of Josh Rosen lighting it up in OTAs and the opinions of DJ & Brooks as indicative of Rosen's future.  At the same time, you counsel those who like Allen to "at least see what he does before thinking he's somewhat good."  Alright.  None of these fellas has played in the NFL, so maybe we should all just say nothing and wait and see how it goes.  OTOH, message boards are here so folks can speculate and supposedly enjoy talking about their team.  You don't really expect folks to just shut up and if you do, why don't you?

 

I don't presume to know the future.  Apparently, however, you have certitude:  "EVERY stat & Game you watch of his, shows he's not going to make it."  Strangely, there actually were genuine pro scouts and teams that were unaware of this.  Beane appears to think Allen actually can be a very good pro qb.  He must lack your superior acumen.  Unlikely all five fellas drafted in the first hit, but I am guessing more than one is good.  Allen's unique background (late bloomer, tiny CA farm town, juco, Wyoming team with little talent in 2017 contextualize the stats).  What doesn't show up are elements that are qualitative; such have significance for a holistic evaluation of a player.  You won't get any of that from watching Youtube.  Perhaps the professionals at OBD have more data points to consider than you have avaliable to you.

 

I think Allen has a chance to be very good, but I am not asserting knowledge today about an unknown future.  I think Rosen may have durability issues; he may ironically turn into Sam Bradford 2.0 with Jay Cutler's personality -- or perhaps he is the superstar in waiting you proclaim.  

Edited May 24, 2018 by Dr. Who

[BB@Shooter]

4 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I know you're being sarcastic, but considering he threw for 1 TD & 8 INT's against Power 5 schools, I don't think his redzone percentage would look that good against the teams those other QB's played against.

 

So were the DB's he played against. So were the linebackers he played against. So were the D-lines he played against. So were the coaches he played against. 

And in the MWC, he wasn't even voted as one of the QB's to the All-Conference team. Lol that means other QB's from those crappy schools with their crappy lines and their crappy WR's somehow managed to outclass him. 

The talent he played with doesn't matter when everyone else has a level playing field.

One little fact you are leaving out, if his team was that much inferior to the Power 5 schools, how do you compare him? Common sense dude, try it sometime. Do you even read what you type?

[PrimeTime101]

6 hours ago, BigDingus said:

 

I know you're being sarcastic, but considering he threw for 1 TD & 8 INT's against Power 5 schools, I don't think his redzone percentage would look that good against the teams those other QB's played against.

 

So were the DB's he played against. So were the linebackers he played against. So were the D-lines he played against. So were the coaches he played against. 

And in the MWC, he wasn't even voted as one of the QB's to the All-Conference team. Lol that means other QB's from those crappy schools with their crappy lines and their crappy WR's somehow managed to outclass him. 

The talent he played with doesn't matter when everyone else has a level playing field.

the talent matters when you blame things like accuracy totally on him. to say he is garbage cause of the team he played for is lazy

[Scorp83]

6 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

You can make plausible arguments supporting or opposing any of the top qbs selected in the draft.  It's a little odd, however, that one should take rumored reports of Josh Rosen lighting it up in OTAs and the opinions of DJ & Brooks as indicative of Rosen's future.  At the same time, you counsel those who like Allen to "at least see what he does before thinking he's somewhat good."  Alright.  None of these fellas has played in the NFL, so maybe we should all just say nothing and wait and see how it goes.  OTOH, message boards are here so folks can speculate and supposedly enjoy talking about their team.  You don't really expect folks to just shut up and if you do, why don't you?

 

I don't presume to know the future.  Apparently, however, you have certitude:  "EVERY stat & Game you watch of his, shows he's not going to make it."  Strangely, there actually were genuine pro scouts and teams that were unaware of this.  Beane appears to think Allen actually can be a very good pro qb.  He must lack your superior acumen.  Unlikely all five fellas drafted in the first hit, but I am guessing more than one is good.  Allen's unique background (late bloomer, tiny CA farm town, juco, Wyoming team with little talent in 2017 contextualize the stats).  What doesn't show up are elements that are qualitative; such have significance for a holistic evaluation of a player.  You won't get any of that from watching Youtube.  Perhaps the professionals at OBD have more data points to consider than you have avaliable to you.

 

I think Allen has a chance to be very good, but I am not asserting knowledge today about an unknown future.  I think Rosen may have durability issues; he may ironically turn into Sam Bradford 2.0 with Jay Cutler's personality -- or perhaps he is the superstar in waiting you proclaim.  

I've actually watched his games... as I've stated plenty of times on this board. But I won't fault you for not knowing that, I'll just keep repeating it.

 

The jury is still out with Beane... only time will tell if he knows what he's doing. I've been around this game longer then Beane. Just because I've chose to not make a career as a talent evaluator doesn't mean I'm clueless & don't know my bum from my elbow.

If Beane is right...great! I'm probably the one guy that would be excited to be wrong!

But, I don't think this front office knows entirely what they're doing...yet

Some....not all....some of their moves screams they hate talented players...which really Bothers me.

Incognito, Sammy, Dareus, Darby, Glenn heck even Rosen... they all have issues with them being cocky, having swagger, or some unfortunate injury that lingers. 

 

McDermott besides his mentor...has some of the worse game management skills I've seen since Andy Reid. I'm scared to be in a big game with this guy & he runs the clock out cause he forgets to use his timeouts. & he also have knee jerk reactions... like benching Tyrod in a winnable game against the Chargers.

 

So sorry if I'm not jumping on board with them planning then drafting Josh Allen over a slew of more creditable QB's like Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, Josh Rosen, & Lamar Jackson. 

[The_Dude]

...well that’s encouraging. I’m surprised. I wouldn’t have guessed. 

[Scorp83]

5 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

the talent matters when you blame things like accuracy totally on him. to say he is garbage cause of the team he played for is lazy

People dislike Tyrod... I beg you to watch Josh Allen games in full! Like I've said, I got through 6 games before telling Jeremy from WGR to stop texting me Josh Allen games! They were horrible... 140 yards here, 202 yards there... bad mechanics, over throwing the RB in the flats, missing wide open WR's down field.... nobody wants to talk about that.

People just want to believe pie in the sky because he's a Bill. News flash... it's almost possible we got it wrong. Everything our new front office has done isn't the greatest of moves.  They've made some good moves & they've made some really questionable moves. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Scorp83

[PrimeTime101]

7 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

People dislike Tyrod... I beg you to watch Josh Allen games in full! Like I've said, I got through 6 games before telling Jeremy from WGR to stop texting me Josh Allen games! They were horrible... 140 yards here, 202 yards there... bad mechanics, over throwing the RB in the flats, missing wide open WR's down field.... nobody wants to talk about that.

People just want to believe pie in the sky because he's a Bill. News flash... it's almost possible we got it wrong. Everything our new front office has done isn't the greatest of moves.  They've made some good moves & they've made some really questionable moves. 

 

in many of those games in 2010 he lacked attempts. he had 19, 11, 20, 19

 

The Iowa game where the team played from behind all day he had 40 attempts for crap yards because the entire team was out matched

Another game 32 attempts for over 300 yards. Rest of games attempts were lower much lower. his average att. was just over 24. Sam Darnold averaged over 34 passes.

That's the difference between one and the other. But no one wants to discuss reality either. No one wants to believe that you can go through link after link and have Allen as the best potential QB coming out of the league. No one wants to discuss.. at least on these boards that until the draft, that he was considered top 2 QB talent coming off this draft.

 

so go ahead and continue with your doom and gloom on Josh Allen.

 

bolded

Just cause Allen was not your pick doesn't make the pick "questionable"

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by PrimeTime101

[BB@Shooter]

13 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

People dislike Tyrod... I beg you to watch Josh Allen games in full! Like I've said, I got through 6 games before telling Jeremy from WGR to stop texting me Josh Allen games! They were horrible... 140 yards here, 202 yards there... bad mechanics, over throwing the RB in the flats, missing wide open WR's down field.... nobody wants to talk about that.

People just want to believe pie in the sky because he's a Bill. News flash... it's almost possible we got it wrong. Everything our new front office has done isn't the greatest of moves.  They've made some good moves & they've made some really questionable moves. 

You really are clueless. Allen played in a run first, offense. They were running clock to shorten the game. You watched 6 games on You Tube and are an expert? I watched 20 games in person, the rest on tv. I saw what other teams were doing. How predictable his OC was. You are a terrible source. Keep talking and someday soon you will be the Bills new OC. NOT.!!!!!!!!

[Scorp83]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:18 AM, BB@Shooter said:

You really are clueless. Allen played in a run first, offense. They were running clock to shorten the game. You watched 6 games on You Tube and are an expert? I watched 20 games in person, the rest on tv. I saw what other teams were doing. How predictable his OC was. You are a terrible source. Keep talking and someday soon you will be the Bills new OC. NOT.!!!!!!!!

How am I'm clueless for actually watching his games. Then I didn't say I watched them on youtube...you know direct tv has a service that allows you to watch college games right? Then Jeremy White had an entire QB text club...where he sent you the game dates & times. So how is that being clueless & watching YouTube?  Man...total ignorance on your part from that post

[Dr. Who]

15 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

How am I'm clueless for actually watching his games. Then I didn't say I watched them on youtube...you know direct tv has a service that allows you to watch college games right? Then Jeremy White had an entire QB text club...where he sent you the game dates & times. So how is that being clueless & watching YouTube?  Man...total ignorance on your part from that post

If you really watched all the games, are you able to process any of the counterarguments to your rather dogmatic position?  Do contextual elements like a predictable, run-first offense, or poor surrounding talent in 2017, etc. in any way modify your evaluation criteria?  Does the interlocutor who actually attended many of the games have superficial points, because it doesn't seem to me you have really engaged them?  We'll see how it turns out, but you have taken a position with no wiggle room.   

Edited May 26, 2018 by Dr. Who