John Ledyard on with Schopp & Sal today

[Scorp83]

4 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Well then he was DEAD wrong because at least TWO, if not more teams had him in the top ten of the first round, if not more

Yea because he's a QB... just because he has a 3rd rd grade in him doesn't mean a team can't overdraft him in the 1st rd. That's what all the experts were projecting... that a team will take him in the 1st. But that doesn't mean him going in the 1st rd is justifiable 

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

Why because they are not praising our top 10 pick???  Your being bias... 

 

"Your being bias" 

[WPBillsFan]

4 hours ago, MILFHUNTER#518 said:

Well then he was DEAD wrong because at least TWO, if not more teams had him in the top ten of the first round, if not more

This is confusing on so many levels... smh

18 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:

Yea because he's a QB... just because he has a 3rd rd grade in him doesn't mean a team can't overdraft him in the 1st rd. That's what all the experts were projecting... that a team will take him in the 1st. But that doesn't mean him going in the 1st rd is justifiable 

This 

[BuffaloHokie13]

2 hours ago, The_Dude said:

My argument isn’t that Ledyard’s opinion is better; it’s that his job is to give HIS opinion. It’s noy to say what fans want to hear. That’s all. 

And many others' argument is that his opinion has not been anywhere close to accurate about QBs in the past, so there isn't much reason to care about his thoughts on Allen over someone else's with a better track record. That's all.

[cba fan]

20 hours ago, WPBillsFan said:

2 things that sticks out...

 

He had Allen as a 3rd rd grade... wow

 

Then us not getting weapons around Allen. I want to see Allen succeed but I was thinking the same thing... how can he without any legitimate weapons. I love Benjamin but I've lost faith in Zay cause he had alot of drops last year. 

 

After today, & I could be reading too much in it, but I think they are gearing up for Allen to start day 1... especially with the 1-on-1 treatment he was getting today. 

It is rookie mini camp. Who was suppose to get the attention?

18 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

I mean, Edmunds was pick 16 so he was a late first....

Late first???

 

There are 32 picks in the first round. Math man.......

[John from Riverside]

18 hours ago, The_Dude said:

 

Ledyard is a SOLID analyst. His job isn’t to reassure you on your teams draft pick; it’s to give his honest opinion. It was all professional criticism.  

I actually have no problem with a negative opinion but as fans we also have a right to look at his incorrect past opinions and there have been ready

 

MOST analysts do not share his round 3 grade opinion regardless of garbage that gets put on the board by certain posters

 

and if ledlard is gonna talk about lack of weapons out around him he should also talk about the huge dead cap we are carrying this year making it difficult

 

the bills decided to complete their defense instead with their draft picks because they felt they were of higher quality

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

I think Orlovsky watched one game of Allen, which was possibly his worst game: vs. Oregon. He uses an example of one single play of Allen missing a RB checkdown on a blitz as his narrative that Allen doesn't have it upstairs. Pretty silly.

 

This play

 

Before the play you see the RB's head turn and look at Allen, as though they're exchanging a word.  Then, if you frame through it, Allen appears to be looking in the RB's direction as though he's waiting for him.  About 1:22-1:23, as Orlovsky is talking about where Allen should go with the ball, the LT and DE appear to be directly on a line between Allen and the RB, blocking the throw.

 

I think the RB didn't run the route Allen expected him to run - RB should be further behind the LOS not where the LT and DE are screening him off - and Allen is now desperately looking for somewhere to go with the ball in the face of a charging LB.  (Alternatively, the RB may be where he should be, but the LT got shoved back, I think the former)

 

I'm not saying Orlovsky's right about Allen's "game mind."  I'm not saying he's wrong, either.  But to use this play as definitive evidence that Allen is "surprised" by a basic blitz and therefore has no head for the game is, IMO, a bit tenuous. 

 

I think this play may be one of those discussed in "The Wake Up Call" with Kirk Cousins where Allen says he and the RB weren't on the same page about what route to run with zone v. man coverage, but not sure.

[Rochesterfan]

20 hours ago, Scorp83 said:

This dude John is a beast! Even my boy Sal tried to set him up with some good questions & Mr. Ledyard had answer after answer... on the state of the Bills

 

Check it out...

 

05-11 Jon Ledyard on Schopp and the Bulldog - http://www.wgr550.com/media/podcast/schopp-and-bulldog

 

 

The more ore you look into the guy - the bigger joke he is.  

 

Go back to 2016 and look at his big board and read about the player.  He has Shaq Lawson as a guaranteed top 10 pick because he can rush the passer from either DE or OLB.  What a joke.  He has the top QB taken number 1 as the 42nd best player and the first tackle as his 31st.

 

He has Paxton Lynch and Cardale Jones as better prospects than Carson Wentz.

 

3 of his top 10 players ranked on his big board were not even drafted in the first round and 7 of the top 10 were drafted 12 or later.  The guy is not good at evaluating talent and ranking talent.

 

2017 and 2018 are not much better with his rankings and where these guys go and how they played.

 

I think he watches limited film and then puts together his thoughts, but it is not any better than a guy like Gunner Bill and I would submit he is worse.  He has no additional access and no interviews - so everything is based on limited film - not even game film.  

 

This guy guy is a joke.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, The_Dude said:

My argument isn’t that Ledyard’s opinion is better; it’s that his job is to give HIS opinion. It’s noy to say what fans want to hear. That’s all. 

 

That's cool; I interpreted that "Ledyard's opinion is better" is what you meant by saying (emphasis yours) "Ledyard is a SOLID analyst"

Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, I'm uncertain.

 

I'm with you that it's his job to give his opinion, the question is what is his background and track record such that we (as fans) should weight his opinion higher than, say, Buffalo716, Or Metzelaarslives, or for that matter, yours.

[Rochesterfan]

20 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Ledyard on Allen:

 

He had 3rd round grade on him.  Talent/athleticism is awesome, but at end of day decision making/accuracy are issues.

 

Is it possible to develop the talent?  Yes, but difficult.

 

 

 

 

He he had a similar grade on Wentz and seems to have real issues with QB grades.  

 

I don’t think he understands the QB position very well and what to look for.

[John from Riverside]

15 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

Ledyard didn't suddenly formulate his opinion on Allen after the Bills drafted him.  His critiques are legitimate and backed up by Orlovsky and others even if those who want ensconce Allen in a safe place don't want to admit he needs work in the very areas that Ledyard speaks of.   

That is not what people are saying at all

 

people are saying that despite his obvious issues he needs to work through his ceiling is so high you can’t grade him as a 3 rd round project

[Rochesterfan]

19 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

He had Tremaine Edmunds going as a Tier 3 guy end of 1st round beginning of 2nd.

I guess the Bill's are doomed!  LOL

 

 

Yes, but he had Shaq Lawson as his 6th best player in 2016 and a guaranteed top 10 pick.  So we are saved.

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

That is not what people are saying at all

 

people are saying that despite his obvious issues he needs to work through his ceiling is so high you can’t grade him as a 3 rd round project

 

Some people were intimating that his analysis of Allen was anti-Bills and I was just pointing out that it can't be that with the timing and consistency of his opinion. 

[Wayne Arnold]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This play

 

Before the play you see the RB's head turn and look at Allen, as though they're exchanging a word.  Then, if you frame through it, Allen appears to be looking in the RB's direction as though he's waiting for him.  About 1:22-1:23, as Orlovsky is talking about where Allen should go with the ball, the LT and DE appear to be directly on a line between Allen and the RB, blocking the throw.

 

I think the RB didn't run the route Allen expected him to run - RB should be further behind the LOS not where the LT and DE are screening him off - and Allen is now desperately looking for somewhere to go with the ball in the face of a charging LB.  (Alternatively, the RB may be where he should be, but the LT got shoved back, I think the former)

 

I'm not saying Orlovsky's right about Allen's "game mind."  I'm not saying he's wrong, either.  But to use this play as definitive evidence that Allen is "surprised" by a basic blitz and therefore has no head for the game is, IMO, a bit tenuous. 

 

I think this play may be one of those discussed in "The Wake Up Call" with Kirk Cousins where Allen says he and the RB weren't on the same page about what route to run with zone v. man coverage, but not sure.

 

Orlovsky harps on this one play as the basis for crapping on Allen. Patented group-think mentality. Proof that former NFL players are not at all immune to it.

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Some people were intimating that his analysis of Allen was anti-Bills and I was just pointing out that it can't be that with the timing and consistency of his opinion. 

Yeah, his bias is against presenting credible evaluations apparently.

[Rochesterfan]

15 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Ledyard is very good...His Locked On NFL Draft Podcast is my favorite of all the Draft Podcasts...I try to listen to every one during Draft season...

 

He's really sharp...I've heard him talk a lot about the Buffalo market...He's been on WGR a ton this off season, and he found out quick Bills fans will come at him if he's less than prepared ( I think it had to do with Groy)... 

 

He's crazy prepared though usually...He was born to do what he's doing for sure...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t say he is born to do what he is doing - his talent evaluation in 2016 was literally awful.  2017 and 2018 is not a lot better.  

 

He talks well well and is not afraid to speak his mind, but honestly I question if he really understands what GMs and scouts look for.

 

From everything I can read - he is an absurdly poor judge of talent and ranking of players and that gets compounded because he doesn’t interview players, talk with staffs, or watch the coaches film or maybe he would not list 3 of his top 10 players in 2016 that all fell into the second round.

[26CornerBlitz]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Yeah, his bias is against presenting credible evaluations apparently.

 

 Let us all hope.  No draft analyst is 100% accurate. 

[Rochesterfan]

6 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Some people were intimating that his analysis of Allen was anti-Bills and I was just pointing out that it can't be that with the timing and consistency of his opinion. 

 

 

I wouldn’t say it is anti-Bills - I would contend that he has no idea what he is looking at for QB play and rankings.  2016 - Geof was in the 40s, Wentz was late 50s and Paxton Lynch and Cardale Jones ahead of him.  

 

He he has an opinion, but it does not appear to be shared by many others that actually make these picks and his logic and understanding is flawed.

 

 

14 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

He's a tough grader, especially on QB's...He had Darnold at #35 overall...So it's not just Allen...And he's not grading by where he thinks they will go...He knew both Darnold and Allen would go top 10...He's purposely not adding positional value either...

 

Nobody get them all right...He's the 1st to admit he's missed on some QB's in the past...Who hasn't?

 

And no offense but I'm quite sure he's MUCH better than you think he is...Like...100% sure...

 

 

Then in what is the point of his big board - he ranks these guys, but his top 10 consist of a bunch of late round 1 and round 2 guys - guys that have not proven anything in 2 years - while guys he ranked in the 40s and 50s that were drafted top 10 have shown themselves to be on their way.

 

Therefore the 2 conclusions are he is not really very good or he is purposely missing to get people to talk about him.

[Fadingpain]

19 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

Umn no that is absolutely not true....why are you posting this crap?

Don't confuse where he was rated with where he was predicted to go in the draft.

 

Ledyard himself, who had Allen "rated" as a 3rd round prospect, said in the same GR-55 segment that he predicted he would go in the top 10 for sure, or something like that.

 

His point being that NFL teams just can't hold off on a guy like Allen b/c they foolishly overvalue traits/talents and don't look at the whole picture of whether or not a QB prospect is likely to succeed in the NFL.

 

He is basically saying if you view Allen objectively, he is a 3rd round lottery ticket.  If you want to predict how NFL teams will view him in the draft, he'll be picked in the top 10.  

 

Most analysts had similar things to say about him.

 

Lots of Bills fans focus on the "tremendous upside" of Allen, but fail to remember that you must multiple that by the likelihood of success in hitting that upside, which is very low.

 

On aggregate, Allen is a traditional, lower round, high risk, likely to fail, gamble.

 

 

[GG]

5 hours ago, Nervous Guy said:

He wasn't exactly glowing in his reviews of Carson Wentz either...." He still struggles with location and accuracy, operating from a wide base at times instead of standing more upright in the pocket. Wentz has a big arm that will occasionally force the ball into coverage, often because he processes his reads and opposing defenses too slowly in the pocket. By the time he’s made a decision, defenders have often maneuvered into position to make a play on the ball."       Does this sound familiar?  I wouldn't mind if Allen turned out like Wentz.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/01/31/carson-wentz-is-who-we-thought-he-was-and-there-is-nothing-wrong-with-that/

His take on the entire 2016 class was woefully wrong.

[Fadingpain]

1 minute ago, GG said:

His take on the entire 2016 class was woefully wrong.

When it comes to predicting Allen's success, don't listen to John Ledyard.

 

Listen to the data.  Almost all of which says Allen will fail.

 

I know lots of Bills fans don't want to believe that, but there it is.

 

 

[26CornerBlitz]

This is what Ledyard said about Wentz and it doesn't sound ridiculous when you look at his comments in totality:

 

Almost ironically however, we also exist in a league and a world of immediate gratification, where impatience and the need to win now often supersede logic and sound developmental process. Wentz isn’t ready to start in the NFL, and certainly isn’t ready to carry the value of being a top ten pick. And that is completely ok.

 

That isn’t to say that he won’t or shouldn’t be selected in the top five or ten players in this year’s draft. If there is a team that is prepared to allow Wentz to develop and wants to take that risk, I understand that. 

[Jamie Mueller]

Fortunately, there isn't a draft "expert" out there who will have any impact on the trajectory of Josh Allen's career.  That's 100% on the Bills' coaches... and on the kid himself.  Frankly, listening to the Buffalo media types... and a lot of people on this board... you'd swear that they want him to fail.   Regardless of who you may have wanted the Bills to take at #7... this guy's our next big hope at quarterback.  I'm hoping like hell that he turns out to be good.  Even a Roethlisberger or Bledsoe level of good would make me very happy.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Jamie Mueller

[Rochesterfan]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Gonna break this down:

1) Any analyst's job is to give honest opinion and professional criticism, not to make fans feel good.  Agreed. 

2) Isn't Jon Ledyard fundamentally "JAG" (fan like the rest of us)?  From NDT scouting:

" Jon Ledyard has been writing about the NFL draft for several years now, and is thrilled to be bringing creative content and unique analysis to NDT Scouting.(...)Jon is also the host of the Locked on NFL Draft and Breaking the Plane podcasts, while covering the Steelers for scout.com. The Office, LOST, weightlifting, ultimate frisbee, grilling, Duke basketball, and all Pittsburgh pro sports teams are his greatest passions."

I don't read anything there about playing the game, coaching the game, scouting the game on a higher level....he sounds to me like a fan who is turning is passion into a bit of a career, and Good for Him! 

 

Not to take away from him, a guy can be a fan and educate himself, put in the time, analyze the film, and so forth.  But it is worth asking what makes him SOLID, more than several people here who also watch film, put in the time, educate themselves.

 

 

 

Exactly Hapless - we’ll put.

 

I will also say creative content and unique analysis screams to me someone not afraid to put BS out there to drum up clicks.  It does not scream a guy with deep understanding of the game or what scouts are looking for.

 

He is a click bait player in the modern world.

[Wayne Arnold]

2 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Don't confuse where he was rated with where he was predicted to go in the draft.

 

Ledyard himself, who had Allen "rated" as a 3rd round prospect, said in the same GR-55 segment that he predicted he would go in the top 10 for sure, or something like that.

 

His point being that NFL teams just can't hold off on a guy like Allen b/c they foolishly overvalue traits/talents and don't look at the whole picture of whether or not a QB prospect is likely to succeed in the NFL.

 

He is basically saying if you view Allen objectively, he is a 3rd round lottery ticket.  If you want to predict how NFL teams will view him in the draft, he'll be picked in the top 10.  

 

Most analysts had similar things to say about him.

 

Lots of Bills fans focus on the "tremendous upside" of Allen, but fail to remember that you must multiple that by the likelihood of success in hitting that upside, which is very low.

 

On aggregate, Allen is a traditional, lower round, high risk, likely to fail, gamble.

 

Stop dodging and own it. You said "many, if not most analysts 'expert draft analysts' had him as a 3rd round type project." Where are all of these expert draft analysts you speak of? 

 

We get it about Ledyard - his list is a "most likely to succeed in the NFL" ranking and I'm sure his past record is unmatched and impeccable. Probably makes millions off of his evaluations.

 

But "many, if not most analysts" would indicate...what, 50 people?

 

Please list those 50 people who considered Allen a 3rd round or later pick.

[Jamie Mueller]

30 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Orlovsky harps on this one play as the basis for crapping on Allen. Patented group-think mentality. Proof that former NFL players are not at all immune to it.

Orlovsky was one damn fine quarterback too.  Makes him an excellent judge of the situation.  

[26CornerBlitz]

Just now, Jamie Mueller said:

Orlovsky was one damn fine quarterback too.  Makes him an excellent judge of the situation.  

 

Mike Mayock loves Allen, but calls him a project.  He never played QB at all.  Should we value his opinion? 

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, Jamie Mueller said:

Orlovsky was one damn fine quarterback too.  Makes him an excellent judge of the situation.  

 

How good or bad Orlovsky was as a player has nothing to do with it.

[John from Riverside]

23 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Don't confuse where he was rated with where he was predicted to go in the draft.

 

Ledyard himself, who had Allen "rated" as a 3rd round prospect, said in the same GR-55 segment that he predicted he would go in the top 10 for sure, or something like that.

 

His point being that NFL teams just can't hold off on a guy like Allen b/c they foolishly overvalue traits/talents and don't look at the whole picture of whether or not a QB prospect is likely to succeed in the NFL.

 

He is basically saying if you view Allen objectively, he is a 3rd round lottery ticket.  If you want to predict how NFL teams will view him in the draft, he'll be picked in the top 10.  

 

Most analysts had similar things to say about him.

 

Lots of Bills fans focus on the "tremendous upside" of Allen, but fail to remember that you must multiple that by the likelihood of success in hitting that upside, which is very low.

 

On aggregate, Allen is a traditional, lower round, high risk, likely to fail, gamble.

 

 

Give the names of the “most” that had him a 3rd round prospect or STOP

[Doc Brown]

He had a 2nd round grade on Carson Wentz in 2016 (who I keep hearing Allen comparison too) and rated him as the 4th QB in the draft after Goff, Lynch and Cardale Jones.  He also had Dak Prescott as a 6th round projection.  To his credit though, he had Watson as #1 on his board last year (mid range 1st) in front of Trubisky (late 1st), Mahomes (early 2nd), and Kizer (mid to late 2nd).  Time will tell on whether he got that class correct, but it's looking good so far.  I'm more on Ledyard's side when it comes to Josh Allen, but I hope to god I am wrong.

 

4. Carson Wentz, North Dakota State – 2nd Round

I’m a big fan of Wentz’s game, but the NDSU quarterback’s rise to “top ten” notoriety on many analysts’ boards is a bit much. Everything happens too slowly in the pocket for Wentz, whose stance and accuracy will need some work at the next level. His arm and ability to make tough throws will likely entice a team enough to get him selected in the top 15 picks come April 28.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/04/11/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-final-quarterback-rankings/

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/ledyards-2017-nfl-draft-positional-rankings-quarterbacks/

 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Mike Mayock loves Allen, but calls him a project.  He never played QB at all.  Should we value his opinion? 

Also, Mayock rated Blaine Gabbert higher Cam Newton at their draft? Does that completely destroy any of his future draft ratings.

 

there has almost become an Allen/ McBeane cult developing where every opinion that doesn’t say everything that they do isn’t great is wrong.  I am willing to trust them on defense, especially defensive back.  But what have they ever done to blindly trust them with offense, especially qb?  

 

I want them to be right but it’s more about hope than anything.  While there are no guarantees with qbs, Allen showed some real question marks in a below average college conference.  It’s ok to have doubts.

 

this pick will either prove McBeane are geniuses or complete morons. I don’t think there is really an in between.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Also, Mayock rated Blaine Gabbert higher Cam Newton at their draft? Does that completely destroy any of his future draft ratings.

 

there has almost become an Allen/ McBeane cult developing where every opinion that doesn’t say everything that they do isn’t great is wrong.  I am willing to trust them on defense, especially defensive back.  But what have they ever done to blindly trust them with offense, especially qb?  

 

I want them to be right but it’s more about hope than anything.  While there are no guarantees with qbs, Allen showed some real question marks in a below average college conference.  It’s ok to have doubts.

 

this pick will either prove McBeane are geniuses or complete morons. I don’t think there is really an in between.

 

Indeed. 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

He had a 2nd round grade on Carson Wentz in 2016 (who I keep hearing Allen comparison too) and rated him as the 4th QB in the draft after Goff, Lynch and Cardale Jones.  He also had Dak Prescott as a 6th round projection.  To his credit though, he had Watson as #1 on his board last year (mid range 1st) in front of Trubisky (late 1st), Mahomes (early 2nd), and Kizer (mid to late 2nd).  Time will tell on whether he got that class correct, but it's looking good so far.  I'm more on Ledyard's side when it comes to Josh Allen, but I hope to god I am wrong.

 

4. Carson Wentz, North Dakota State – 2nd Round

I’m a big fan of Wentz’s game, but the NDSU quarterback’s rise to “top ten” notoriety on many analysts’ boards is a bit much. Everything happens too slowly in the pocket for Wentz, whose stance and accuracy will need some work at the next level. His arm and ability to make tough throws will likely entice a team enough to get him selected in the top 15 picks come April 28.

 

https://draftwire.usatoday.com/2016/04/11/2016-nfl-draft-big-board-final-quarterback-rankings/

https://www.fanragsports.com/nfl/ledyards-2017-nfl-draft-positional-rankings-quarterbacks/

 

While I think Wentz is really good, given what Foles was able to do, it could just be a great system for a qb.  Wentz got drafted to a really good situation.

 

man, Schwartz was really good.

[Jamie Mueller]

10 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

How good or bad Orlovsky was as a player has nothing to do with it.

 

My point was... it wouldn't be too hard to find a messed up play on tape for any QB who ever played the game.  Although the pivot is generally blamed whenever he throws the ball to nowhere... or worse to the other team... it's always difficult to really know who made the mistake on the play.  I'll bet we can find at least one play on tape where Dan Orlovsky looks really bad. I doubt that he'd be happy to accept that one play as being representative of his entire career... or his abilities as a quarterback.

[Wayne Arnold]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

there has almost become an Allen/ McBeane cult developing where every opinion that doesn’t say everything that they do isn’t great is wrong.

 

4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Indeed. 

 

That must be it. Can't just be about Allen. Must be a developing pro-McBeane cult.

[Doc Brown]

3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

While I think Wentz is really good, given what Foles was able to do, it could just be a great system for a qb.  Wentz got drafted to a really good situation.

 

man, Schwartz was really good.

That's the biggest question mark going into the season for me.  Daboll and Culley's ability to properly develop Allen.  I honestly have no clue of their competence.

[C.Biscuit97]

2 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

 

That must be it. Can't just be about Allen. Must be a developing pro-McBeane cult.

I mean I get it because they broke the drought. So obviously people are feeling great about them.  Personally, I thought that was a Jauron 7-9 team that got really really lucky (which shows how bad the last 17 years were).

 

but if they are right about Allen, I will be the David Koresh of the McBeane cult (hopefully, without the fbi).

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

That must be it. Can't just be about Allen. Must be a developing pro-McBeane cult.

 

It's about him too with many having visceral reactions to legitimate criticism of Allen. 

[Wayne Arnold]

Just now, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean I get it because they broke the drought. So obviously people are feeling great about them.  Personally, I thought that was a Jauron 7-9 team that got really really lucky (which shows how bad the last 17 years were).

 

but if they are right about Allen, I will be the David Koresh of the McBeane cult (hopefully, without the fbi).

 

8 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

It's about him too with many having visceral reactions to legitimate criticism of Allen. 

 

I saw some good and some bad from McDermott last season. I'm not willing to crown him yet. And I have no idea how to evaluate Beane at this point other than he speaks well.

 

I go by what I see. In Josh Allen I see an imperfect-yet-supremely-talented quarterback who had to carry a poor offense with a horribly outdated, easy-to-defend and predictable system on his shoulders and performed extremely well despite those hurdles, achieving things at the Wyoming football program not witnessed in decades.

 

I also saw a four-month-long group-think Josh Allen bashfest from social-media private NFL evaluators that the general public swallowed hook, line and sinker. These evaluators heard about a big kid with poor numbers at a mid-major who was possibly going to be the #1 pick in the draft and thought, "I'll show you why this kid is overrated" and pointed out every negative as their own confirmation bias, patting eachother's backs throughout.

 

As a result, Allen has unfairly become the symbol for old-school scouting methods and everything the growing moneyball/analytical scouting community are against. That not only affected Allen's public perception as a football player but also his draft stock.

 

None of that has anything to do with thinking McBeane can do no wrong.

[John from Riverside]

33 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Also, Mayock rated Blaine Gabbert higher Cam Newton at their draft? Does that completely destroy any of his future draft ratings.

 

there has almost become an Allen/ McBeane cult developing where every opinion that doesn’t say everything that they do isn’t great is wrong.  I am willing to trust them on defense, especially defensive back.  But what have they ever done to blindly trust them with offense, especially qb?  

 

I want them to be right but it’s more about hope than anything.  While there are no guarantees with qbs, Allen showed some real question marks in a below average college conference.  It’s ok to have doubts.

 

this pick will either prove McBeane are geniuses or complete morons. I don’t think there is really an in between.

When you take a team to the playoff year in your first year after 17 years

 

you deserve a bit of trust

Edited May 12, 2018 by John from Riverside
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