FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, dneveu said: AJ McCarron completed just about 67% of his passes in college. Who needs context when you have raw numbers?! Same with Mariota... and one thing I've noticed when I watch him is that he really isn't all that accurate. Oh dear God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 26 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Matt Ryan says otherwise. The Big East and MWC are worlds apart. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColdFront_USAF Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 One of his most compared-to players is Cam Newton. Look at Cam's pre-draft stuff, it's quite similar. You'll see things like "big body, huge arm, crazy athletic for his size". You'll also see "needs to work on accuracy, reading defenses, making smart decisions with the ball". I for one am entirely shocked that two guys who coached/learned in Carolina and helped take Cam to a Super Bowl decided to draft a guy frequently compared to him. As for accuracy.. Jordan Palmer said a lot of stuff about it, so I'll just paraphrase rather than parrot him. He said the raw number isn't everything (another shock, I know). The team around him got significantly worse in 2017, as his mostly senior team from 16 all graduated and moved on. Yet, his completion percentage remained the same. It actually shows an improvement when factoring in that he lost a huge amount of his offense. Palmer and Allen both cited footwork issues that resulted in accuracy. That's coachable, to what extent remains to be seen. And the "unable to read a defense" thing, well I'm not sold on that narrative. At the very least, the potential is there, as he has proven to be very smart with the X's and O's. Let's wait and see if he can apply his intelligence to the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I want him to be good, but I'm convinced we just flushed 3-4 years down the toilet with this pick. There is no precedent for guys like Allen being successful in the NFL. I've watched JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, Josh Freeman, Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker, and Allen is just like all of those guys. Being big and strong and able to throw the ball 80 yards isn't enough in the NFL. Poor accuracy and decision making isn't something that gets corrected once you're playing against the best defenders in the world and the throwing lanes get significantly smaller than the ones he faced in the Mountain West Conference. Someone was going to get suckered into thinking they could "fix" Allen. I'm really disappointed it was the Bills. You don't know crap. You're a follower. You have absolutely no clue what goes into a throwing % number or at least don't care enough to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I want him to be good, but I'm convinced we just flushed 3-4 years down the toilet with this pick. There is no precedent for guys like Allen being successful in the NFL. I've watched JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, Josh Freeman, Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker, and Allen is just like all of those guys. Being big and strong and able to throw the ball 80 yards isn't enough in the NFL. Poor accuracy and decision making isn't something that gets corrected once you're playing against the best defenders in the world and the throwing lanes get significantly smaller than the ones he faced in the Mountain West Conference. Someone was going to get suckered into thinking they could "fix" Allen. I'm really disappointed it was the Bills. Poor accuracy and poor decision making agent the same thing. Peterman was over 60% though. Maybe we should start him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I want him to be good, but I'm convinced we just flushed 3-4 years down the toilet with this pick. There is no precedent for guys like Allen being successful in the NFL. I've watched JP Losman, Josh Freeman, Kyle Boller, Josh Freeman, Blaine Gabbert and Jake Locker, and Allen is just like all of those guys. Poor accuracy and decision making isn't something that gets corrected once you're playing against the best defenders in the world and the throwing lanes get significantly smaller than the ones he faced in the Mountain West Conference. Someone was going to get suckered into thinking they could "fix" Allen. I'm really disappointed it was the Bills. I get what you're saying. There is no doubt that Allen is a risky pick. He is much more talented than any of those QBs you mention and it is not even close. Hopefully, he will be the exception to the rule. Hopefully, we can develop him like Stafford who was a big armed QB with accuracy issues. Stafford was a below 60% thrower for his first 6 NFL seasons pretty much. Mahommes is another big-armed guy with accuracy issues (his completion % was very inflated in the air raid), the jury is still out on him. Favre and Kelly also improved their accuracy at the NFL level, that was a different era though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 If Wyoming had run 1 more bubble screen (easy completion) vs vertical pass every game he played in (25 games) he'd be a 60% passer. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: The Big East and MWC are worlds apart. I don't disagree. I'm just saying that jrober is exaggerating and moving the accuracy slider to make his point seem more valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sullim4 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 The one thing I will say in watching his tape last night is that he has a tendency to throw the ball away a lot rather than take sacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, ColdFront_USAF said: One of his most compared-to players is Cam Newton. Look at Cam's pre-draft stuff, it's quite similar. You'll see things like "big body, huge arm, crazy athletic for his size". You'll also see "needs to work on accuracy, reading defenses, making smart decisions with the ball". I for one am entirely shocked that two guys who coached/learned in Carolina and helped take Cam to a Super Bowl decided to draft a guy frequently compared to him. As for accuracy.. Jordan Palmer said a lot of stuff about it, so I'll just paraphrase rather than parrot him. He said the raw number isn't everything (another shock, I know). The team around him got significantly worse in 2017, as his mostly senior team from 16 all graduated and moved on. Yet, his completion percentage remained the same. It actually shows an improvement when factoring in that he lost a huge amount of his offense. Palmer and Allen both cited footwork issues that resulted in accuracy. That's coachable, to what extent remains to be seen. And the "unable to read a defense" thing, well I'm not sold on that narrative. At the very least, the potential is there, as he has proven to be very smart with the X's and O's. Let's wait and see if he can apply his intelligence to the field. Those are good points as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Wyoming had run 1 more bubble screen (easy completion) vs vertical pass every game he played in (25 games) he'd be a 60% passer. Exactly right - thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Wyoming had run 1 more bubble screen (easy completion) vs vertical pass every game he played in (25 games) he'd be a 60% passer. He was not given as many easy throws as most QBs in college football. Mayfield for example probably had 7 completions on bubble screens per game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, billspro said: He was not given as many easy throws as most QBs in college football. Mayfield for example probably had 7 completions on bubble screens per game. I might get flamed for it, but Wyoming was one of the very worst teams in Division 1 last year. Everything they accomplished (winning a bowl game) was Allen. As a Buckeye fan, after watching Barrett all year and tape of Allen, I think the Buckeyes win the title last year with Allen at QB and what would put a very different story on him as a prospect. Flip him and Baker in Wyoming vs Oklahoma, I think Allen is pick #1 and Baker is a day 1 / day 2 fringe guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, billspro said: He was not given as many easy throws as most QBs in college football. Mayfield for example probably had 7 completions on bubble screens per game. When your receivers suck, you tend to not throw bubble screens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 24 minutes ago, Irv said: Everyone needs to chill out. Jim Kelly's college stats! Year Team Games Passing G Rec Att Cmp Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1979 Miami 11 5–6–0 104 48 46.2 721 5 6 108.7 1980 Miami 12 9–3–0 206 109 52.9 1,519 11 7 125.7 1981 Miami 11 9–2–0 285 168 58.9 2,403 14 14 136.2 1982 Miami 7–4–0 81 51 63.0 585 3 1 133.4 Career 45 30–15 676 376 55.6 5,228 33 28 128.4 Can we post Joe Namath’s college stats too? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: If Wyoming had run 1 more bubble screen (easy completion) vs vertical pass every game he played in (25 games) he'd be a 60% passer. Well.......I’m trying not to be one of those guys, but the first pass I ever saw him throw was a bubble screen to his left. He one hopped it to the WR and I thought “he’s another EJ lacking natural throwing ability”. I’m praying we get Good Josh from the Senior Bowl, not Bad Josh the One Hopper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojo44 Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 25 minutes ago, Irv said: Everyone needs to chill out. Jim Kelly's college stats! Year Team Games Passing G Rec Att Cmp Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1979 Miami 11 5–6–0 104 48 46.2 721 5 6 108.7 1980 Miami 12 9–3–0 206 109 52.9 1,519 11 7 125.7 1981 Miami 11 9–2–0 285 168 58.9 2,403 14 14 136.2 1982 Miami 7–4–0 81 51 63.0 585 3 1 133.4 Career 45 30–15 676 376 55.6 5,228 33 28 128.4 This data is certainly a poke in the eye of all of the Allen haters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Can we post Joe Namath’s college stats too? Post Joe Namath's HOF pro stats too... absolutely insane that the guys in the hall of fame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I might get flamed for it, but Wyoming was one of the very worst teams in Division 1 last year. Everything they accomplished (winning a bowl game) was Allen. As a Buckeye fan, after watching Barrett all year and tape of Allen, I think the Buckeyes win the title last year with Allen at QB and what would put a very different story on him as a prospect. Flip him and Baker in Wyoming vs Oklahoma, I think Allen is pick #1 and Baker is a day 1 / day 2 fringe guy. That could be true, let's hope so. Wyoming did lose to one of the worst teams in college football when Allen was hurt. I just rewatched his senior bowl and he looked good throwing to better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted April 27, 2018 Share Posted April 27, 2018 26 minutes ago, Irv said: Everyone needs to chill out. Jim Kelly's college stats! Year Team Games Passing G Rec Att Cmp Pct Yds TD Int Rate 1979 Miami 11 5–6–0 104 48 46.2 721 5 6 108.7 1980 Miami 12 9–3–0 206 109 52.9 1,519 11 7 125.7 1981 Miami 11 9–2–0 285 168 58.9 2,403 14 14 136.2 1982 Miami 7–4–0 81 51 63.0 585 3 1 133.4 Career 45 30–15 676 376 55.6 5,228 33 28 128.4 And Dan Marino's Passing Year School Conf Class Pos G Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate Career Pitt 693 1204 57.6 8597 7.1 5.9 79 69 127.7 *1979 Pitt Ind QB 12 130 222 58.6 1680 7.6 6.6 10 9 128.9 *1980 Pitt Ind QB 12 116 224 51.8 1609 7.2 5.7 15 14 121.7 *1981 Pitt Ind QB 12 226 380 59.5 2876 7.6 6.8 37 23 143.1 *1982 Pitt Ind QB 12 221 378 58.5 2432 6.4 4.6 17 23 115.2 Note Marino's interception stats - 46 interceptions over his final two years. In his senior year he had 17 touchdown passes and 23 interceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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