Myth that we traded up to 12 to grab a QB

[teef]

2 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

Myth is it SHOWS/PROVES that he wants to move up for a qb - thats not true - it only proved he wanted the best value for Glenn

 

If Beane had traded a #2  to move up to 12 - then yes that would have shown/proven he wanted to get in better position.  But he didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up

 

you're trying far to hard here.  in fact, all of your arguments have been pretty weak.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

10 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

And because (as you point out) they are not guarantees you mitigate that risk by having more of them - not less.

 

No team in the last 15yrs has traded down more often than the Patriots  - they ignore the media myths of 'superstars' and know in the era of salary cap its about getting as many quality players on cheap (rookie deals) contracts as possible... that means multiple 2nd and 3rds over a single 1

 

 

Hopefully we can do that once we have our QB. Look at the Colts this year. They're set to move down again, do you think they would have considered it if they didn't have Luck?

 

Not only is your strategy not what the Bills intended, it makes no sense until after we have a sure-fire QB in place. 

 

 

[billsredneck1]

35 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

Beane moved up to 12 not necessarily to get closer to the top of the draft - he moved because going from 21 to 12 represented the most value (2nd rd pick equivalent) he could acquire for Gordy Glenn. He may very well take the 12th pick and trade back into the 20s and get the extra 2nd rd pick for doing so and let the draft come to him.  This draft is deep picking 22 & 28 and then 3 picks in round2  and then 2 in round 3 would be huge. Locking in 7 quality players for 4/5 years on cheap rookie contracts  - no way you piss that away

 

Beane didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up to 12.   He took the best value available to him while unloading Glenn and his big contract - very different.

maybe cincy did not want to give up a pick but, preferred to change places...so i agree, it wasn't for the sole purpose of trading up.

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

Myth is it SHOWS/PROVES that he wants to move up for a qb - thats not true - it only proved he wanted the best value for Glenn

 

If Beane had traded a #2  to move up to 12 - then yes that would have shown/proven he wanted to get in better position.  But he didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up

 

Or Beane knew he was going to have to get a higher picker to potentially jump into the top ten...

 

In trying to do so, moving Glenn helped facilitate that. 

 

Similar to the Eagles trading Kiko and Maxwell to the Phins with pick 13 to get to eight.

[GG]

Just now, jahbonas said:

 

Yes he should have - he should not have traded up to 1 or 2 and sell the farm in doing so  - a slight move up for a player makes sense and doesnt give away the farm

 

What he shouldnt have done is trade away following year's number 1 to get his qb - Losman.

 

I'm sure that having Eli or Rivers over the last 15 years would be much more painful than the joy of watching Whitner, McCargo & Poz don a Bills uniform.

[Captain Hindsight]

2 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

 

Yes he should have - he should not have traded up to 1 or 2 and sell the farm in doing so  - a slight move up for a player makes sense and doesnt give away the farm

 

What he shouldnt have done is trade away following year's number 1 to get his qb - Losman.

http://www.billsdaily.com/draft/2004/

 

Would you have traded Lee Evans, JP, Tim Anderson, Tim Euhus, Dylan McFarland and Johnathon Smith for Big Ben?

 

I would have

[Mickey]

20 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

And because (as you point out) they are not guarantees you mitigate that risk by having more of them - not less.

 

 

No you don't because history shows that the hit rate is higher at the top of the draft than the bottom. And if you are planning your draft strategy based on your evaluation team not being competent enough to find winners in the first round, why would you trust them to find winners in the 5th round? As for the Patriots trading down, you can do that when you have the best QB in the league, not when your future currently depends on a bottom of the barrel free agent back-up from Cincinnati. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

http://www.billsdaily.com/draft/2004/

 

Would you have traded Lee Evans, JP, Tim Anderson, Tim Euhus, Dylan McFarland and Johnathon Smith for Big Ben?

 

I would have

 

The trade down crowd needs to look back at past draft's 2nd and 3rd rounds to see that drafting a difference maker is possible but rare. I say that knowing the same is true for QB position, but it's worth the risk because the reward is so great, especially now with the rookie wage scale.

[Epstein's Mother]

54 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

Beane moved up to 12 not necessarily to get closer to the top of the draft - he moved because going from 21 to 12 represented the most value (2nd rd pick equivalent) he could acquire for Gordy Glenn. He may very well take the 12th pick and trade back into the 20s and get the extra 2nd rd pick for doing so and let the draft come to him.  This draft is deep picking 22 & 28 and then 3 picks in round2  and then 2 in round 3 would be huge. Locking in 7 quality players for 4/5 years on cheap rookie contracts  - no way you piss that away

 

Beane didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up to 12.   He took the best value available to him while unloading Glenn and his big contract - very different.

 

What?

Edited April 19, 2018 by Epstein's Mother

[Estelle Getty]

I have a little hunch that the Bills like Mccaron more than they let on. If you take his brief NFL career into account he would certainly be a top 3 QB in this class.  He has shown no real weaknesses in his few NFL starts and in the preseason.  He has the size an attitude of a winning NFL QB. 

[Kirby Jackson]

The Bills traded to 12 to secure the most pro-ready QB in the draft, John O’Korn.

[BillsFan17]

2 minutes ago, Estelle Getty said:

I have a little hunch that the Bills like Mccaron more than they let on. If you take his brief NFL career into account he would certainly be a top 3 QB in this class.  He has shown no real weaknesses in his few NFL starts and in the preseason.  He has the size an attitude of a winning NFL QB. 

Is that why they waited as long as they did then paid him a backups contract?

 

There were times in Cincinnati where they weren't overly thrilled with Dalton, but never pulled him for AJ...

[GG]

15 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

http://www.billsdaily.com/draft/2004/

 

Would you have traded Lee Evans, JP, Tim Anderson, Tim Euhus, Dylan McFarland and Johnathon Smith for Big Ben?

 

I would have

Take it a step further, and I can argue that Bills would still be ahead if they traded their next 10 first round draft picks for Eli

[teef]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

The Bills traded to 12 to secure the most pro-ready QB in the draft, John O’Korn.

i am so on the o'korn train.

[TOboy]

59 minutes ago, jahbonas said:

Beane moved up to 12 not necessarily to get closer to the top of the draft - he moved because going from 21 to 12 represented the most value (2nd rd pick equivalent) he could acquire for Gordy Glenn. He may very well take the 12th pick and trade back into the 20s and get the extra 2nd rd pick for doing so and let the draft come to him.  This draft is deep picking 22 & 28 and then 3 picks in round2  and then 2 in round 3 would be huge. Locking in 7 quality players for 4/5 years on cheap rookie contracts  - no way you piss that away

 

Beane didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up to 12.   He took the best value available to him while unloading Glenn and his big contract - very different.

 

I'm going to guess you missed Kim Pegula on Total Access last night? 

 

Although it was already clear to just about everyone, Kim left no shadow of a doubt that we're QB hunting in this draft. That doesn't mean we'll get one of the top guys, or the more specifically the guy we want, but the plan is most certainly to acquire our franchise QB in this draft. 

[greeneblitz]

So I guess they just plan on going with no one special at QB, should just bring back Rex Ryan while he's at it.

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, teef said:

i am so on the o'korn train.

All joking aside I don’t know why anyone would want to trade up for a QB when the greatest QB ever was picked in the 6th. The best strategy is to wait for your 6th round pick, maybe even trade down a little, and then draft the next Tom Brady. Good QBs go in the top 10 but historically great QBs go 199.

[TPS]

Yours is one opinion. I'd say he will make a deal IF the other side is willing, be that the Giants or someone else.

 

I believe the most obvious first step would be to trade with the Bucs, moving to #7, which would make a move to #2 easier, or at least more appealing for the Giants. It's a 300 point move according to the draft trade chart on Draftek.  #56 is worth 340 points, and the Bucs do not have an R3 pick.  This seems to make a lot of sense.  I won't be surprised if it happens.

 

[What a Tuel]

1 hour ago, jahbonas said:

Beane moved up to 12 not necessarily to get closer to the top of the draft - he moved because going from 21 to 12 represented the most value (2nd rd pick equivalent) he could acquire for Gordy Glenn. He may very well take the 12th pick and trade back into the 20s and get the extra 2nd rd pick for doing so and let the draft come to him.  This draft is deep picking 22 & 28 and then 3 picks in round2  and then 2 in round 3 would be huge. Locking in 7 quality players for 4/5 years on cheap rookie contracts  - no way you piss that away

 

Beane didnt trade a 2nd rd pick to move up to 12.   He took the best value available to him while unloading Glenn and his big contract - very different.

 

"7 quality players on cheap contracts"  Most teams can't even hit on 3rd round picks not to mention once again ignoring the QB position is ridiculous.

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

57 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

Hot take.

We passed on two QBs last year, traded Watkins, Darby, Tyrod, and Glenn to stock up on draft picks with the intent of not drafta QB, and signing Cincinnati's backup QB for the future of the franchise.

 

Stop.

They want a QB.

Yes we need to draft a QB.  But how do you know that is why they got more draft picks?  It is a reason why, but not the only reason why they might do that.   Sometimes you do something because it is the right thing to do for several reasons.  I don't go thu a red light because.... a may get a ticket,,,, I may get T-boned by a truck,,,,,, its a bad example for my kids,,,,,, I don't want to get flipped off by somebody who was coming the other way........ I can't afford another ticket or higher insurance.....