HOUSE Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 And don't forget that Nathan Petermen, he can throw a football 60 yards through a key hole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Bring Back Kelly said: I find it funny how everyone keeps on the accuracy issues. The kid had bad receivers. If you bother to look at the highlights, his receivers dropped a lot. The placement is what should be considered. A lot of those drops were right in position to be caught. He had 1 decent receiver out of 4. Plus he was down a starting center and RB. This guy can run, throw, anticipate and most importantly see over the center. Mayfield is Short and will have problems. I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage. And trust me, they are not. Ball placement is being considered. Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind. You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running. You will see him completely miss targets. Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common. Muscle memory. They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver. Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws. It's not a natural motion they have learned. When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 The OP is cracker-dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I'm sure that's also true of all the scouts and draft pundits outside of this board who have pointed out flaws in his game too. They are all shrimps who know nothing. Whatcha gonna do. Now I'm so confused. I remember from the Fitzy days and then EJ that QB accuracy just can't be improved. Who to believe, who to believe now? To be honest I'm conflicted about him. There are people who are knowledgeable evaluators who say don't be tempted by his tools and avoid him at all costs. Then there are knowledgeable evaluators who are impressed with his tools and believe whatever mechanical issues he has associated with his accuracy can be corrected. Most of the ESPN type evaluators have him in the top four group. Some even have him ranked in the top two. Bandit is high on him and Gunner and Bloke are not. On this issue I'm siding with the combative Bandito. Although I am queasy about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, JohnC said: To be honest I'm conflicted about him. There are people who are knowledgeable evaluators who say don't be tempted by his tools and avoid him at all costs. Then there are knowledgeable evaluators who are impressed with his tools and believe whatever mechanical issues he has associated with his accuracy can be corrected. Most of the ESPN type evaluators have him in the top four group. Some even have him ranked in the top two. Bandit is high on him and Gunner and Bloke are not. On this issue I'm siding with the combative Bandito. Although I am queasy about it. Is it really necessary to trade up for Allen? I mean is his ceiling so much higher than the other guys that its a necessary risk. I say a big NO. If Darnold,Rosen and Mayfield are gone and we haven't gotten one then i'd consider him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Just now, horned dogs said: Is it really necessary to trade up for Allen? I mean is his ceiling so much higher than the other guys that its a necessary risk. I say a big NO. If Darnold,Rosen and Mayfield are gone and we haven't gotten one then i'd consider him. I prefer the trio of qbs that you mentioned, and would trade up for any one of them. With Allen I would be agreeable to trading up but not make as much of an investment to get him. For the sake of argument let's assume the Bills were interested in Mayfield and Allen. Would I make a move up to preclude someone else ahead of us selecting him or another team jumping up to get him? If the McBeane duo had a conviction on either one of them then yes I would make a measured move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I like Allen over Rosen and Darnold but would be happy with Mayfield too. Allen, Darnold, Mayfield were winners in college and Darnold had they very best supporting cast you can have. So while he won a lot of games you have to wonder what he would be like on bad teams like Rosen, Allen were on last year. Allen will just need some time to further develop so he needs to go to a team that already has a starting QB so he can sit and learn. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Kelly Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage. And trust me, they are not. Ball placement is being considered. Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind. You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running. You will see him completely miss targets. Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common. Muscle memory. They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver. Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws. It's not a natural motion they have learned. When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen. Great points. I look at all the QBs. I like Rosen the most. But when you compare these guys, they are all different from one another. Outside of the interceptions, Darnold looks like the safe pick, Rosen is probably the most ready to start. Mayfield has the grit and mindset to be a good QB. Heart. He has that. But pure potential and natural abilities. Allan has that. Allan could play in this weather. And his footwork has really improved. Palmer is really helping this kid. He looked great at Senior Bowl and Combine. Footwork has so much to do with it. Mayfield a footwork is really good. But Allan is the fastest outside of Jackson. As tall as Rothlisberger, and has a cannon. Plus he looks coachable. Palmer has shown this. Stanford was not accurate and he is pretty dam good. I actually think Allan can learn from Both Peterman and McCarron. If you only have to give up a first and a third for him, I say you make that trade in a heartbeat. Edited April 15, 2018 by Bring Back Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, Bring Back Kelly said: I find it funny how everyone keeps on the accuracy issues. The kid had bad receivers. If you bother to look at the highlights, his receivers dropped a lot. The placement is what should be considered. A lot of those drops were right in position to be caught. He had 1 decent receiver out of 4. Plus he was down a starting center and RB. This guy can run, throw, anticipate and most importantly see over the center. Mayfield is Short and will have problems. Umm...not so much. Target drop passes percentages:Lamar Jackson - 8.5%Baker Mayfield - 8.0%Josh Rosen - 7.5%Mason Rudolph - 6.6%Josh Allen - 4.8%Sam Darnold - 4.3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zerovotlz said: Umm...not so much. Target drop passes percentages:Lamar Jackson - 8.5%Baker Mayfield - 8.0%Josh Rosen - 7.5%Mason Rudolph - 6.6%Josh Allen - 4.8%Sam Darnold - 4.3 Hilarious. Thank you for finding the stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Kevi Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 4 hours ago, BuffaloBud420 said: Mark it down. All you guys bashing him on here either don't know football or have some sort of Napoleon complex. Haven't you been "done" with the Bills like a half dozen times by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bring Back Kelly Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 46 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Hilarious. Thank you for finding the stats. Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bring Back Kelly said: Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in. We aren't talking about the order they will be picked in. you claimed he his recievers dropped the ball alot. they didn't. No one said anything about draft order. Just own it and move on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Bring Back Kelly said: Ohh and I'm sure that's the order that they will be picked in. Hey genius he was just providing a little evidence in the face of your unsubstantiated claim. Allen’s receivers did not drop an inordinate amount of balls. Course you “watched a few games” so you thought you knew better. Has nothing to do with where they’ll be picked. Edited April 15, 2018 by JoPar_v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, mjt328 said: I think you assume that everyone is just harping on his completion percentage. And trust me, they are not. Ball placement is being considered. Watch any YouTube "vs" game of Josh Allen's, and I promise you will see multiple throws where he puts the ball high, low, short and behind. You will see him forcing his receivers to slow down or completely stop running. You will see him completely miss targets. Everybody has bad throws sometimes, but Allen very much reminds me of what we saw from EJ Manuel. The most accurate NFL QBs (like Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers) have one thing in common. Muscle memory. They have excellent mechanics when delivering the ball, and it's identical every single time they have a chance to set their feet and deliver. Guys like Allen and Manuel always appear to be "aiming" their throws. It's not a natural motion they have learned. When players have not developed this by the time they reach the NFL, there is a good chance it will never happen. So the key to muscle memory is actually slow methodical technical reps. If practice is done in this manor a chemical is released from the brain that will retrain and program the muscle tissue. In short the right training can correct muscle memory issues. As a musician many of the same concepts apply as incorrect practice habits and technique errors are corrected at the collegiate level on almost every instrument and this type of muscle memory retraining is part of the "craft". Some may argue that the concept and context are different but in reality human physiology would dictate that muscle memory is indeed just that regardless of context. Therefore training in the aforementioned manor should and most likely would yield the desired results. In conclusion slow methodical training could indeed correct Josh Allen's technical deficiencies. Results would yield the drafts most talented QB prospect based on raw athletic ability and capability. This would indicate that sheer technical ability and ceiling alone make Allen the best prospect. This doesn't even address intellect and with a wonderlic score of 37 obviously he is far beyond average In this area as well. Put it all together and you have to see that Allen is the future star QB in this draft. Edited April 15, 2018 by Lenigmusx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerovoltz Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I've seen enough of Allen that I would avoid him until day 3. I'm not a coach or a scout. I am just some nobody like everyone else here. I like speculating, watching film, making a judgment like everyone else here. I can completely understand the fascination with the guy. He absolutely has the physical traits you want a QB to have. Big, tall, rocket arm...and high wonderlic score to boot. Seems to have interview quite well, and looked great at the combine and senior bowl. There is a ALOT to like there. To me....you can't overlook the flaws...wich are substantial. He makes poor choices at the line...he stares down targets. he isn't an accurate thrower. That alone, I could almost accept and deal with it...but the fact he did not IMPROVE over time is the single biggest red flag in my mind. This sort of flaw is major. If the Bills end up with Josh Allen it will be precisely because they couldn't get into the top 3 AND they will be panicking because frankly, you aren't going into this season with McCarron, no no.1 drafted QB, and the bleak prospects of 2019 at QB. The front office, after passing like they did last year, CAN NOT come away from day 1 without a QB. They CANT. If you get to pick 7 or so, and you know you have the Patriots, Cardinals, Chargers, behind you making calls, and for who, Allen, Rudolph, ? Jackson?...the pucker factor in the Bills war room will be defcon 5 if 1-2-3 is all QB and Allen isn't one of them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Well, I guess there's something to be said for putting it all out there and owning your take. As for Allen, I see him as the biggest risk. Out of the 5 first round possibles , he's the one I'd least like to see wearing a Bills cap on April 26. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Thank you. You've solidified my desire to steer very clear of him. Whatever BuffaloBud420 says to do, do the opposite Do you get most of these fantastic ideas at 4:20 in the afternoon with a little help from your girl Mary Jane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Captain Murica said: I want to throw something at you. Well hopefully you have better accuracy then Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I think Josh Allen is perfect for Cleveland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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