Peter King MMQB: 4/9/18.

[RyanC883]

Only worry about Rosen for me is the concussion history.  

 

QB's in preference: Mayfield, Rosen, Kyle L.  I think these guy are most day 1 ready.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

2 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

Only worry about Rosen for me is the concussion history.  

 

QB's in preference: Mayfield, Rosen, Kyle L.  I think these guy are most day 1 ready.  

 

I like him and want us to draft him, but shoulder history also is concerning. 

[Captain Hindsight]

10 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Dan Orlovsky had a scathing review of Josh Allen.

He is one of the best follows on twitter. Really great stuff

[Solomon Grundy]

Stay at 12 and get Jackson. Rosen and Mayfield will be gone. Brandt is saying, basically, they're can't miss prospects. Build team with draft picks

Edited April 9, 2018 by the skycap

[RyanC883]

9 minutes ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

 

I like him and want us to draft him, but shoulder history also is concerning. 

 

oh yeah, forgot about that also.  I envision some sort of Andrew Luck scenario w/ him.  On the other hand, I envision a 15 year+ franchise QB.  

[Buffalo Bills Detective]

7 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Stay at 12 and get Jackson. Rosen and Mayfield will be gone. Brandt is saying, basically, they're can't miss prospects. Build team with draft picks

Give it up.

[WhitewalkerInPhilly]

10 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I could be wrong because I didn't follow that draft very closely, but didn't a lot of people think that Wentz was going to take time to develop? 

Not defending Allen, just wondering if I am remembering correctly? 

 

I remember running up to the draft that year, Philly pundits were a bit skeptical. The take was that he had all of the raw tools, but he had played in Division II. How would he hold up against superior competition?

 

Of course, he did have a bit of a rocky 2016. But he clearly made a leap forward in 2017.

[BuffaninATL]

4 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Stay at 12 and get Jackson. Rosen and Mayfield will be gone. Brandt is saying, basically, they're can't miss prospects. Build team with draft picks

 

I am in agreement, and surely will get flamed for it. There is a poster in this thread who still posits his value as that of "a running QB". Dude passed for 3,543 yards in 2016 and 3,660 in 2017 - while leading the entire country in rate of dropped passes. Catch half those dropped balls and the completion % narrative changes. He did all this while running the E/P offense. The comparisons to Tyrod and Mike Vick really need to stop.

[PIZ]

21 minutes ago, the skycap said:

Stay at 12 and get Jackson. Rosen and Mayfield will be gone. Brandt is saying, basically, they're can't miss prospects. Build team with draft picks

 

Honestly, I think EVERYONE on here would admit, IF they really believe in McBeane, that if they zeroed in on Lamar Jackson as THE GUY they want, and take him at #12, that it is really exciting (long sentence I know).  To get THEIR QB at #12, and keep ALL of those draft picks, would be amazing.  Then we actually get the QB they chose, and get to pick from all those guys they brought in for a visit or private workout.  If Lamar Jackson has everything they are looking for, then I'm on board.  The problem is, we have no idea if they want Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, or Kyle Lauletta.

[BuffaninATL]

1 minute ago, PIZ said:

 

Honestly, I think EVERYONE on here would admit, IF they really believe in McBeane, that if they zeroed in on Lamar Jackson as THE GUY they want, and take him at #12, that it is really exciting (long sentence I know).  To get THEIR QB at #12, and keep ALL of those draft picks, would be amazing.  Then we actually get the QB they chose, and get to pick from all those guys they brought in for a visit or private workout.  If Lamar Jackson has everything they are looking for, then I'm on board.  The problem is, we have no idea if they want Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Baker Mayfield, Mason Rudolph, or Kyle Lauletta.

 

Good post ......If I didn't have the belief in McBeane that I do, I would not be on board with Jackson at 12. They have earned that belief with a surgical, methodical, & laser-focused vision & execution the likes of which we have not seen at OBD in a long, long time

[Chuck Wagon]

Do we need to move up from #22 before making a deal?

 

Brandt says the draft is 13-17 guys deep.  We've seen several analysts land around 21 players.  I wonder if our offer wouldn't be much stronger if we worried less about moving from 12 to ~7 and more about moving up from 22, even up to that level.

 

There's been reports both the 49ers and Raiders are open to deal, if we can move from #22 with pick 56 and a 2019 3rd (value that falls between pick 9 and 10) would an offer of #10 / #12 / #56 / #65 be more enticing and easier to build than moving up from 12 to ~7?

[Dr. Who]

16 minutes ago, BuffaninATL said:

 

I am in agreement, and surely will get flamed for it. There is a poster in this thread who still posits his value as that of "a running QB". Dude passed for 3,543 yards in 2016 and 3,660 in 2017 - while leading the entire country in rate of dropped passes. Catch half those dropped balls and the completion % narrative changes. He did all this while running the E/P offense. The comparisons to Tyrod and Mike Vick really need to stop.

I can't get a read on ths FO.  Some folks think the want a big, pocket passer.  That's not Jackson.  It's not Mayfield, either.  I don't see how the Mike Vick comparison is patently false.  Good Mike Vick is pretty darn good, btw.  I like in varying degrees all of the top five with some reservation on all of them.  I'm not keen on Rudolph, so if they miss on the top four, I'd rather take a chance on Jackson.  

1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Do we need to move up from #22 before making a deal?

 

Brandt says the draft is 13-17 guys deep.  We've seen several analysts land around 21 players.  I wonder if our offer wouldn't be much stronger if we worried less about moving from 12 to ~7 and more about moving up from 22, even up to that level.

 

There's been reports both the 49ers and Raiders are open to deal, if we can move from #22 with pick 56 and a 2019 3rd (value that falls between pick 9 and 10) would an offer of #10 / #12 / #56 / #65 be more enticing and easier to build than moving up from 12 to ~7?

That's a very interesting speculation.  I'm not an expert, but I personally like the four top qbs, then the top non-qbs are Chubb, Barkley, Nelson, Edmunds, Smith, Fitzpatrick, and Ward, imo.  10 and 12 might get you two of those fellas.  I think 2 might be available for 10 and 12, but I dunno really.

[BuffaninATL]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I can't get a read on ths FO.  Some folks think the want a big, pocket passer.  That's not Jackson.  It's not Mayfield, either.  I don't see how the Mike Vick comparison is patently false.  Good Mike Vick is pretty darn good, btw.  I like in varying degrees all of the top five with some reservation on all of them.  I'm not keen on Rudolph, so if they miss on the top four, I'd rather take a chance on Jackson.  

 

I hear you to a certain degree. I just think there is a confirmation bias in some circles on this board that if a QB is black and can run, he's not a prototypical QB. If you watch video of Jackson, he stands tall in the pocket, goes through his reads head up, and morphed into scrambling/breaking the pocket only when the play was totally breaking down around him.

[KingRex]

I think the situation remains the same.  On one hand we can value Rosen (or Darnold, or Bell, or likely Mayfield) so much that we are willing to trade our 2 1st rounders this year (AND likely the market dictates a high round choice next year) to move up to pick #2 this year.

 

On the other hand, we might pass on taking one of the top 3 or 4 QBs, but by keeping our 3 rounds with 2 picks per round we use these picks to reinforce a team which has one of the oldest rosters in the NFL, that has some clear holes like the loss of their starting center, 2 starting LBs, and a great RB in Shady but no real plan B if this +30 great player is hurt.

 

From my several decades of enjoying the NFL it not only is such a clear case that it makes far more football sense to spend the great draft resource Beane and the braintrust have assembled to concentrate on rebuilding the TEAM, by taking folks like Roquan Smith, Edmunds, Ragnow, or whoever they have as BPA with their 2 firsts.  They likely will have the ability to get a QB prospect in the 2nd round like a Rudolph or Jackson (depending on who they judge as best).

 

Even better, I would love to see the TEAM trade down taking advantage of the market the Jets have said by trading 3 seconds to move up.  If we were able to trade 1 of our 1sts for 2- 2nds it would mean THE PROCESS calls for creating tremendous competition between as many as 7 early drafted players this year, having a QB competition between Peterman, McCarron, and a 2nd round pick this year, and following the model Pitts used to win an SB and compete every year by drafting their FRANCHISE QB, Big Ben after first building their TEAM.

 

To me it makes far better football sense to trade down if you can or at least stand pat with 6 choices in the first three rounds!

[BuffaninATL]

Just now, KingRex said:

I think the situation remains the same.  On one hand we can value Rosen (or Darnold, or Bell, or likely Mayfield) so much that we are willing to trade our 2 1st rounders this year (AND likely the market dictates a high round choice next year) to move up to pick #2 this year.

 

On the other hand, we might pass on taking one of the top 3 or 4 QBs, but by keeping our 3 rounds with 2 picks per round we use these picks to reinforce a team which has one of the oldest rosters in the NFL, that has some clear holes like the loss of their starting center, 2 starting LBs, and a great RB in Shady but no real plan B if this +30 great player is hurt.

 

From my several decades of enjoying the NFL it not only is such a clear case that it makes far more football sense to spend the great draft resource Beane and the braintrust have assembled to concentrate on rebuilding the TEAM, by taking folks like Roquan Smith, Edmunds, Ragnow, or whoever they have as BPA with their 2 firsts.  They likely will have the ability to get a QB prospect in the 2nd round like a Rudolph or Jackson (depending on who they judge as best).

 

Even better, I would love to see the TEAM trade down taking advantage of the market the Jets have said by trading 3 seconds to move up.  If we were able to trade 1 of our 1sts for 2- 2nds it would mean THE PROCESS calls for creating tremendous competition between as many as 7 early drafted players this year, having a QB competition between Peterman, McCarron, and a 2nd round pick this year, and following the model Pitts used to win an SB and compete every year by drafting their FRANCHISE QB, Big Ben after first building their TEAM.

 

To me it makes far better football sense to trade down if you can or at least stand pat with 6 choices in the first three rounds!

 

very doubtful to me that Rudolph or Jackson will last until the 2nd, even though some may not have 1st rd grades on them. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, BuffaninATL said:

 

I hear you to a certain degree. I just think there is a confirmation bias in some circles on this board that if a QB is black and can run, he's not a prototypical QB. If you watch video of Jackson, he stands tall in the pocket, goes through his reads head up, and morphed into scrambling/breaking the pocket only when the play was totally breaking down around him.

I agree with you on this.  My main concern with Jackson is that he seems slight to me and I fear he will be hurt like RG3, though perhaps he is more durable and I am being irrational on that point.  Even if it is not dispositive, I'd prefer his Wunderlic was higher than 13.

[BuffaninATL]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I agree with you on this.  My main concern with Jackson is that he seems slight to me and I fear he will be hurt like RG3, though perhaps he is more durable and I am being irrational on that point.  Even if it is not dispositive, I'd prefer his Wunderlic was higher than 13.

 

The last I saw him at was 6'3" and 211 lbs. I think with the proper nutrition & training he can easily get up to 220. Agreed on the Wonderlic, not a deal-breaker for me though. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

A popular defense of Josh Allen's low completion % is that he didn't throw screen passes. However, Allen threw a higher rate of passes 0-5 yards from the line of scrimmage (30%) than Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield

 

Another Josh Allen myth busted lol

[DefenseWins]

22 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said:

Do we need to move up from #22 before making a deal?

 

Brandt says the draft is 13-17 guys deep.  We've seen several analysts land around 21 players.  I wonder if our offer wouldn't be much stronger if we worried less about moving from 12 to ~7 and more about moving up from 22, even up to that level.

 

There's been reports both the 49ers and Raiders are open to deal, if we can move from #22 with pick 56 and a 2019 3rd (value that falls between pick 9 and 10) would an offer of #10 / #12 / #56 / #65 be more enticing and easier to build than moving up from 12 to ~7?

 

Assuming that we have been in serious discussions with the Giants about acquiring pick #2, I'd say it's pretty likely that the two teams have exchanged idea's like this already and have let each other know what is desired...

[NewEraBills]

11 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I could be wrong because I didn't follow that draft very closely, but didn't a lot of people think that Wentz was going to take time to develop? 

Not defending Allen, just wondering if I am remembering correctly? 

 

I think that was more because he was at a small school, NOT because of concerns about completion percentage and accuracy, footwork, learning when to take heat off of passes so on and so forth.  Nobody had any concerns that would suggest Wentz was a developmental prospect/project.  His biggest concerns was the small school and could he compete against top level competition.

11 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

A popular defense of Josh Allen's low completion % is that he didn't throw screen passes. However, Allen threw a higher rate of passes 0-5 yards from the line of scrimmage (30%) than Darnold, Rosen & Mayfield

 

Another Josh Allen myth busted lol

 

Another one is that he reads the entire field because he's in a pro-style offense.  He may have been required to, but that doesn't mean he always did it.  If you watch the Boise State game on the INT he threw to the TE down the seam, he never looked to his left.  He hiked, looking right the entire time, pump faked and threw it down the seam to the TE, who looked open.  But if Allen had of looked to his left he would have seen the FS playing over the top the entire time.  No eye manipulation with Allen.  The FS came in an picked it off with ease.  Plus the pass had too much on it.