Chuck Wagon Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, horned dogs said: What is the reason for the Allen smokescreen by the Browns, assuming it is just that? I have yet to hear an adequate explanation. Maybe the meeting with Darnold is because we realized he might be there at 4 too. The thing that stands out with me is I'm not hearing much about Allen except for the Browns news. It seems Rosen / Darnold / Baker are all on whirlwind tours with teams. Unless I've just completely missed news on Allen, I haven't been seeing the same about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Wow! Trying to hit a Homerun. This feels like sending Mark Reynolds up against Corey Kluber though. Edited April 11, 2018 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I've been leaning that way for quite a while now, so it doesn't surprise me. As I've said multiple times: when Allen is right, he's easily the best QB in the class. The reason he could go 1st is that a team decides that he was right often enough at Wyoming for them to believe that he'll be right often enough in the NFL. I would certainly draft Darnold over Allen. But selecting Allen ahead of him is not an act of irrationality as many people want to portray it. There are plenty of rumors that the Bills are targeting Allen and are willing to shed picks to get him. There was talk that has now tamped down that the Jets were interested in, as were the Broncos. If the Browns want a veteran qb to start the season and they want their rookie qb who they believe has the highest upside then taking Allen is not an unreasonable way to go. Again, I wouldn't take their course of action but it makes some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 This would be amazing. Only the Browns could take a 4th round calibre player and pick them first overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 The browns should have just made their decision by now and notified the guy to not get hurt at any of these training sessions. Start developing a relationship or get a contract done within the nfl rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Chuck Wagon said: The thing that stands out with me is I'm not hearing much about Allen except for the Browns news. It seems Rosen / Darnold / Baker are all on whirlwind tours with teams. Unless I've just completely missed news on Allen, I haven't been seeing the same about him. I agree. It seems like a lot of excitement from teams because they don't have to consider taking the Risk with Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 On 4/2/2018 at 2:18 PM, MAJBobby said: If this is true they made a mistake. Should have taken Barkley at 1 and Allen at 4. I think it is possible that Allen would not be there at 4. I also think that Barkley should not be a top 4 pick based on his position and the quality of other non QB that would be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, jrober38 said: This would be amazing. Only the Browns could take a 4th round calibre player and pick them first overall. Only a fan with no skin in the game could call a guy that is almost certain to be a top-10 pick a "4th round caliber (sic) player". 5 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: The thing that stands out with me is I'm not hearing much about Allen except for the Browns news. It seems Rosen / Darnold / Baker are all on whirlwind tours with teams. Unless I've just completely missed news on Allen, I haven't been seeing the same about him. Allen has visits lined up with the Browns, Broncos, Jets, and Giants this week FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, JohnC said: I would certainly draft Darnold over Allen. But selecting Allen ahead of him is not an act of irrationality as many people want to portray it. There are plenty of rumors that the Bills are targeting Allen and are willing to shed picks to get him. There was talk that has now tamped down that the Jets were interested in, as were the Broncos. If the Browns want a veteran qb to start the season and they want their rookie qb who they believe has the highest upside then taking Allen is not an unreasonable way to go. Again, I wouldn't take their course of action but it makes some sense. I don't get the board hatred of him at all. The detractors for Tyrod or Rosen claim they want a big QB with a big arm from a blue collar background who can relate to Buffalo. Allen is right out of central casting for that role. But then the same people who claim that's what they want in a QB call him a 4th round talent. It seems there's two clear camps on QBs on the board, either the people that love them some Baker or the people who think Rosen / Darnold are better prospects, leaving Allen without a "camp" and making him the whipping boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: I've been leaning that way for quite a while now, so it doesn't surprise me. As I've said multiple times: when Allen is right, he's easily the best QB in the class. The reason he could go 1st is that a team decides that he was right often enough at Wyoming for them to believe that he'll be right often enough in the NFL. Whoever drafts Allen needs a QB in place who can play capably for a couple of years. In Taylor, the Browns do have just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 minute ago, thebandit27 said: Only a fan with no skin in the game could call a guy that is almost certain to be a top-10 pick a "4th round caliber (sic) player". To me it seems like a mistake to take him at 1, there are other less risky guys. Yes, he might end up being a 9-10 talent, but he is also quite risky because so much is projection. Especially when it seems like the other guys might be 8s and 9s quickly. Of course it all has risk, but the Browns.....ehhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Only a fan with no skin in the game could call a guy that is almost certain to be a top-10 pick a "4th round caliber (sic) player". Allen has visits lined up with the Browns, Broncos, Jets, and Giants this week FWIW Fair enough. So not the Bills, which could be why I'm not seeing much on him. I've admitted shut out some of the national media after the Cooks trade and all the Patriots fanboy news sources saying they are going to trade up but we aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D. L. Hot-Flamethrower Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I don't get the board hatred of him at all. The detractors for Tyrod or Rosen claim they want a big QB with a big arm from a blue collar background who can relate to Buffalo. Allen is right out of central casting for that role. But then the same people who claim that's what they want in a QB call him a 4th round talent. It seems there's two clear camps on QBs on the board, either the people that love them some Baker or the people who think Rosen / Darnold are better prospects, leaving Allen without a "camp" and making him the whipping boy. I agree he has potentially the most talent. It comes with more risk than the other 3, and that makes him number 4 for me. I don't think if I were the Browns I would do this. The fourth round talent is just ignorant. Edited April 11, 2018 by horned dogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 minute ago, horned dogs said: To me it seems like a mistake to take him at 1, there are other less risky guys. Yes, he might end up being a 9-10 talent, but he is also quite risky because so much is projection. Especially when it seems like the other guys might be 8s and 9s quickly. Of course it all has risk, but the Browns.....ehhhhh. I totally understand that position, and I don't disagree. As you know, he's my QB4, and I'm on record that I would take Rosen at No. 1 overall because I think he's the cleanest prospect with the highest floor, and that he can make all of the NFL throws. Just now, Chuck Wagon said: Fair enough. So not the Bills, which could be why I'm not seeing much on him. I've admitted shut out some of the national media after the Cooks trade and all the Patriots fanboy news sources saying they are going to trade up but we aren't. I think they'll bring him in...of course, they're not bringing in Darnold, so perhaps they'll go see Allen in a similar fashion. 1 minute ago, horned dogs said: I agree he has potentially the most talent. It comes with more risk than the other 3, and that makes him number 4 for me. I don't think if I were the Browns I would do this. The fourth round talent is just ignorant. Yeah, we actually don't disagree on the player evaluation much (if at all)...I'm just more willing to miss on Allen than most others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I don't get the board hatred of him at all. The detractors for Tyrod or Rosen claim they want a big QB with a big arm from a blue collar background who can relate to Buffalo. Allen is right out of central casting for that role. But then the same people who claim that's what they want in a QB call him a 4th round talent. It seems there's two clear camps on QBs on the board, either the people that love them some Baker or the people who think Rosen / Darnold are better prospects, leaving Allen without a "camp" and making him the whipping boy. There's no "whipping boy" and no need for some conspiracy theory. It's a fact very few QB with no year >60% completions in college succeed in the pros. Small school QB who play against lower levels of competition also tend to struggle. Both those things apply to Allen. People point to his WR drop rate as a cause of poor completions but, assessments of all the college QB draft prospects show that Jackson suffered the most drops followed by Rosen, and Allen's WR didn't drop that many. The fact is that just because a QB is "right out of central casting" or "looks the way you want your QB to look" doesn't mean he's a good NFL prospect. People think Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield are better prospects because they've shown more on film in college and they don't show some of the same flaws that Allen shows on film. The mitigating factor with Allen is that some people think he didn't have enough talent around him and that fixable mechanical issues caused his accuracy issues (I see him be inaccurate sometimes when I don't see obvious mechanical issues, but I defer to wiser heads on whether there's something subtle there), and he has a very high ceiling due to his size, arm, and Wonderlic score. I recommend to you Buffalo716 QB Film Room work in the College Football forum for a fair take based upon a lot of film. Edit: I haven't seen anyone claim he's a 4th round talent. I think the closest is GunnerBill, and that's based (I think) on a strict philosophy that when you draft a player based on potential, he shouldn't go in the 1st round. In principle, I agree, but I think even Gunner would acknowledge that QB position inflation makes that unlikely with Allen. Edited April 11, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I don't get the board hatred of him at all. The detractors for Tyrod or Rosen claim they want a big QB with a big arm from a blue collar background who can relate to Buffalo. Allen is right out of central casting for that role. But then the same people who claim that's what they want in a QB call him a 4th round talent. It seems there's two clear camps on QBs on the board, either the people that love them some Baker or the people who think Rosen / Darnold are better prospects, leaving Allen without a "camp" and making him the whipping boy. As I said in my posting I would take Darnold over him, and over the other prospects. But if you look at all the qb rankings done by numerous outlets that include former front office staffers Allen is ranked with the top group. As the evaluation season winds down most of the rankings I have seen have him in the second spot. He's not an outlier----he right there in the mix. I have no criticism for people who don't believe that he is the top prospect. But I don't accept the criticism that this is an outlandish act. And what makes it even more understandable is that he is going to a team that doesn't want to play their rookie qb right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Only a fan with no skin in the game could call a guy that is almost certain to be a top-10 pick a "4th round caliber (sic) player". I've done it several times in the past and have almost always been right. I hated Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, Blake Bortles, the entire 2013 QB Class, Jimmy Clausen, etc. All those guys, like Allen, were mediocre college QBs who were over drafted because they looked like Franchise QBs. As I've said numerous times, I think Josh Allen is going to be a colossal bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, JohnC said: As I said in my posting I would take Darnold over him, and over the other prospects. But if you look at all the qb rankings done by numerous outlets that include former front office staffers Allen is ranked with the top group. As the evaluation season winds down most of the rankings I have seen have him in the second spot. He's not an outlier----he right there in the mix. I have no criticism for people who don't believe that he is the top prospect. But I don't accept the criticism that this is an outlandish act. And what makes it even more understandable is that he is going to a team that doesn't want to play their rookie qb right away. Completely agree. He's not #1 on my board. I wouldn't take him #1. But I don't think he's a clear #4 by miles like some seem to believe. Baker's play style (and frankly personality) give me as much pause as Allen does. Ultimately any of the 4 have more potential than any QB we've had in the building in decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I've done it several times in the past and have almost always been right. I hated Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, Blake Bortles, the entire 2013 QB Class, Jimmy Clausen, etc. All those guys, like Allen, were mediocre college QBs who were over drafted because they looked like Franchise QBs. As I've said numerous times, I think Josh Allen is going to be a colossal bust. Stop using facts and please use more emotion. That way we can trade a thousand picks for either this guy, Dave Krieg part 2, a Lilliputian douche bag or the frail offspring of two ice dancers. All of these things guarantee success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, jrober38 said: I've done it several times in the past and have almost always been right. I hated Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Paxton Lynch, Christian Hackenberg, Blake Bortles, the entire 2013 QB Class, Jimmy Clausen, etc. All those guys, like Allen, were mediocre college QBs who were over drafted because they looked like Franchise QBs. As I've said numerous times, I think Josh Allen is going to be a colossal bust. Please. We've all been right/wrong about prospects in the past. A guy isn't a 4th-round caliber player just because you think he is, and even if you believe him to be a very likely bust, then calling him a 4th-round caliber player is incongruous to that sentiment. If he's got as limited a chance to play in this league as you have tirelessly professed, then he's not worth drafting. Why take a doomed prospect in the 4th round, especially if you're always right about these things (which I'd welcome any links to previous evaluations that prove your respective genius on such matters)? Congrats on outsmarting the football-watching world on that cast of characters by the way, nobody else called that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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