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Big Day Today: Josh Allen Pro Day 2pm on NFL Network

KDIGGZ

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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There are other threads on the topic but this very well may be a monumental day for our franchise so I felt as though it deserved its own thread.  Why is this day so important?  Today, the draft's most polarizing prospect will be on display at Wyoming's Pro Day: Josh Allen.  He has the natural talent that makes scouts and GM's pants tight.  He is still very much in the discussion at #1 and a big day today could have huge ramifications for our draft.

 

Pros:

Quote
QB guru Jordan Palmer on Wyoming’s Josh Allen: 'I've never seen anybody like him'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/03/jordan_palmer_on_browns_candid.html

 

As we saw at the combine, Allen has the "wow factor" that really pops in person.  He's huge at 6'5" 240 with over 10" hands.  To go with that size, he has impressive athleticism that will also be on display.  It is believed he will run a 4.6 in the 40 (he ran 4.76 at the combine).  When you see him live, you can't help but be impressed.  The ball whizzes through the air and there is an audible pop when it hits the receivers hands.  He can easily throw 80 yards in the air and we have all seen the video of him throwing it 50 yards from his knees and hitting the goalpost.  When you put it all together, it's quite the impressive product.  Will it be enough to impress Cleveland at the top of the draft?

 

 

Cons:

On the other side of the discussion, Allen seems to have just as many detractors as he does supporters.  He checks all of the boxes of a franchise QB except for when it comes to putting it all together on the field.  He has struggled at times with accuracy, decision making, and interceptions.  Scouts will tell you that his struggles are a result of not having a supporting cast around him and Allen trying to do too much on his own.  Wyoming obviously doesn't get the best of the best when it comes to recruiting.  Allen himself was not highly recruited coming out of high school and had to go the Junior College route before landing at Wyoming, his only full-ride D1 offer.  But when you draft a player that high, you want to see a good history of success at the position.

 

It's widely believed that accuracy is a big indicator of success at the next level and Allen's career 56% completion percentage leaves a lot to be desired.  Typically 60% is the cutoff.  There are examples of QB's with poor completion percentage having success in the NFL (Favre, Vick) but the majority flame out.  His decision making has also been an issue.  For every big play, there seems to be two plays that leave you scratching your head wondering "what the heck was he thinking?"  During his junior year, 4% of his passes were intercepted.  Lucky for him, he throws the ball so hard that a lot of the int's were dropped.  He might not be so lucky at the next level.

 

Draft Ramifications:

Despite some of the knocks against him, Josh Allen just looks the part of an NFL franchise QB.  He has the prototypical traits that teams, especially cold weather teams, look for.  It is believed that Sam Darnold was able to solidify the top spot in the draft with an impressive Pro Day on Wednesday, but a lot of draft analysts say that it's not a done deal and with a big day Josh Allen might still be in that conversation.  Allen definitely has the talent to really put on a show today and it will be interesting to see how it goes.  Be sure to tune in to NFL Network at 2pm to see for yourself!

 

Let's just imagine a scenario where Josh Allen absolutely blows people away today.  Cleveland may decide this kid is far too talented to pass up at 1.  With Tyrod at QB, they may feel they have the time to develop Allen and they may decide that the risk is well worth the reward.  A decision like that would send shockwaves throughout the entire draft.  Now Darnold and Rosen, who many feel are the top two QB's, are pushed down the draft board.  With Darnold available at 2, is that enough to entice Beane to go all in and make the deal with the Giants?  It would be costly, possibly 3x #1 picks.  Or perhaps Rosen is their target and they are now able to get him at pick #4 in a trade with Cleveland.  It would still be costly but not nearly as costly as going to #2.  That would represent a tremendous value to be able to get the QB that many feel is the best in the draft at pick 4.  Or maybe Beane lets it play out and the Broncos pick Mayfield over Rosen and then he is available at 6 and maybe it only costs your 1sts and one of your 2nd's to get him.  Or if you are a Mayfield fan, with Rosen sitting there at 5 that might be too attractive for the Broncos to pass up and so Mayfield falls.

 

The possibilities are endless but the fact of the matter is that as Bills fans we should all be rooting for Josh Allen today.  If a lot of the mock drafts are to be believed, he very well may be our next QB.  At the very least he might be attractive enough to other teams where they decide he is worth the risk and then other more popular options fall to us.  Be sure to tune in to NFL Network at 2pm to watch it live.  It should be quite the show!!!

 

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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Just now, Wayne Arnold said:

I can appreciate your enthusiasm but is a Pro Day really that important?

it is when it's someone like Josh Allen who has the talent to put on a show.  i've never heard the crowd at the combine react at all before and they were oohing and ahhing at his throws.  like i said, an impressive enough day today and he might be in the discussion as the first overall pick which would really shake up the draft.  at the very least he might generate enough buzz to propel himself up the draft board to teams picking before us and the result will be some of the more popular QB's falling to us.  as Bills fans we should be rooting for him today

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DFT RFA

DFT

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I’m sure it will be amazing, as historically similar QBs like Allen tend to put on incredible displays of their natural talent (well-removed from things like pressure and scheming).   But it won’t ease any apprehension that I have towards him as an NFL QB.   There’s just too many concerns on my end.   I hope I’m wrong though, because I want him to be a great QB, but he checks almost ever red flag box I have.   

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jrober38 Veteran

jrober38

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To Summarize:

 

Pros

- Josh Allen is a physical freak

 

Cons

- Josh Allen isn't a good football player

 

Reading this report, it's bringing back memories of EJ Manuel and Jake Locker's scouting reports. Physical freaks, who for whatever reason don't perform well on a football field. 

 

And some people think this guy should go #1 overall? Complete madness. 

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Wayne Arnold Veteran

Wayne Arnold

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1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

it is when it's someone like Josh Allen who has the talent to put on a show.  i've never heard the crowd at the combine react at all before and they were oohing and ahhing at his throws.  like i said, an impressive enough day today and he might be in the discussion as the first overall pick which would really shake up the draft.  at the very least he might generate enough buzz to propel himself up the draft board to teams picking before us and the result will be some of the more popular QB's falling to us.  as Bills fans we should be rooting for him today

 

Jamarcus Russell also generated oohs and aahs at the combine.

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Chuck Wagon Veteran

Chuck Wagon

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Jordan Palmer has been working with most of the top guys.  He was asked if 82 yards was a good over / under on Allen unleashing it.  I can just see the Browns doing all this homework, getting to know Darnold's family etc, then watching Allen hit a WR in stride on a 80 yard pass in shorts and throwing all other prep work away.

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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"Josh Allen is the best quarterback in this draft." - NFC executive #SourcesTellUs: http://on.nfl.com/9z2Giz  (via @LanceZierlein)

DY-t2IjXUAEmHlY.jpg
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MrEpsYtown Veteran

MrEpsYtown

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1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Jamarcus Russell also generated oohs and aahs at the combine.

 

Russell didn't make it because he was a lazy a hole who got really fat. He was not willing to put in the work. 

 

The better comparison is a guy like Kyle Boller, who had ridiculous talent, played on a bad team in college, and was inaccurate. Allen is more talented than Boller, but Boller essentially failed because he stayed inaccurate and had a million injuries. 

 

Either way, Allen clearly has a ton of talent and people are banking on his potential at the top of the draft. If Iḿ going down eventually at least I am taking a swing on the guy who is 6-5, 240, with ridiculous upside. 

 

I still take Darnold or Rosen first, but Allen is next for me. 

Edited by MrEpsYtown
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Lurker All Pro

Lurker

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2 hours ago, kdiggz said:

 

 

 

From Palmer's own website, here are other draft prospects he's "helped" in recent years.   Quite a stable of future-HOF guys.   Doh!    

 

http://qbsummit.com/palmer/

 

"NFL Draft prep has allowed me to train some of the top guys in the past 3 years such as Blake Bortles, Keith Price, Sean Mannion and Christian Hackenberg."

 

 

Plus this gem:

 

"The [NFL] quarterback rooms I've been in have been filled with names juch as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson

Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh McCown, Jimmy Clausen and many others."

 

 

 

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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12 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

 

Hard to tell but to me his workout seems to be slower than the others Ive watched. 

They mentioned that they are at high altitude there and it may be harder to breathe than it would be at sea level in California. Something to consider I guess

 

Oh my gosh he threw that last one so hard it almost knocked the receiver over. "If that ball was a harpoon that kid would be dead" says Mayock lol

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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overall I thought he looked pretty good.  i was expecting a little more fireworks.  there were definitely some very impressive throws but overall it was a tad sloppy compared to what we just saw from Darnold.  it's funny that he unleashed some 80 yard throws and after what he did at the combine it was just more of the same.  you forget how impressive that is!

 

i don't think that will be enough to take him #1.  i think they will see Darnold as the safer pick.  but do the Jets take a chance on him at 3?  I saw GM Maccagnan there on the sideline with a football flying 60mph towards his direction.  Hopefully he was impressed

 

Jets GM Mike Maccagan chatting it up with Josh Allen after his pro day

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Greensleeves Probation

Greensleeves

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The guy hit by my calculations at least 50 of his first 52 passes (one was off camera) - I only saw him miss one. At the end he was launching 80 yard bombs that the receivers couldn't catch even if it was placed well. Huge improvement in footwork which led to his accuracy going way up. Still in play for Browns because the guy can roll out and on a full run throw a dart to the sideline accurately. Biggest talent at QB in draft - will need a year to learn though. 

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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29 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

The guy hit by my calculations at least 50 of his first 52 passes (one was off camera) - I only saw him miss one. At the end he was launching 80 yard bombs that the receivers couldn't catch even if it was placed well. Huge improvement in footwork which led to his accuracy going way up. Still in play for Browns because the guy can roll out and on a full run throw a dart to the sideline accurately. Biggest talent at QB in draft - will need a year to learn though. 

I think Allen will be our pick. He has a lot that really impresses teams (size, arm, athleticism) and if he falls out of the top 5 I think they will view that as great value considering how some think he could go #1 overall. It's either him or Mayfield at this point. I think Rosen and Darnold are tier 1 and then Mayfield and Allen are tier 2 so right now if the best we can do is the tier 2 guys then so be it.

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DCOrange Veteran

DCOrange

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11 minutes ago, kdiggz said:

I think Allen will be our pick. He has a lot that really impresses teams (size, arm, athleticism) and if he falls out of the top 5 I think they will view that as great value considering how some think he could go #1 overall. It's either him or Mayfield at this point. I think Rosen and Darnold are tier 1 and then Mayfield and Allen are tier 2 so right now if the best we can do is the tier 2 guys then so be it.

 

I think Rosen is the one that will slide. Not sure who the Jets take between Allen and Mayfield but I don’t think they’re taking Rosen. 

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KDIGGZ All Pro

KDIGGZ

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40 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

 

I think Rosen is the one that will slide. Not sure who the Jets take between Allen and Mayfield but I don’t think they’re taking Rosen. 

Just reported today that they want Rosen or Mayfield and all indications are they will take Rosen at 3

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DCOrange Veteran

DCOrange

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1 hour ago, kdiggz said:

Just reported today that they want Rosen or Mayfield and all indications are they will take Rosen at 3

 

I understand what some of the reports say. I’m skeptical that it’s true. 

 

Edit: I hope that report is true. Rosen is the one I want the Jets to take personally. 

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Boca BIlls Veteran

Boca BIlls

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8 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

From Palmer's own website, here are other draft prospects he's "helped" in recent years.   Quite a stable of future-HOF guys.   Doh!    

 

http://qbsummit.com/palmer/

 

"NFL Draft prep has allowed me to train some of the top guys in the past 3 years such as Blake Bortles, Keith Price, Sean Mannion and Christian Hackenberg."

 

 

Plus this gem:

 

"The [NFL] quarterback rooms I've been in have been filled with names juch as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson

Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh McCown, Jimmy Clausen and many others."

 

 

 

Man he actually put that on his website?

Manziel had a better pro day.

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Thurman#1 Hall of Famer

Thurman#1

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On 3/24/2018 at 1:42 AM, Lurker said:

 

From Palmer's own website, here are other draft prospects he's "helped" in recent years.   Quite a stable of future-HOF guys.   Doh!    

 

http://qbsummit.com/palmer/

 

"NFL Draft prep has allowed me to train some of the top guys in the past 3 years such as Blake Bortles, Keith Price, Sean Mannion and Christian Hackenberg."

 

 

Plus this gem:

 

"The [NFL] quarterback rooms I've been in have been filled with names juch as Jason Campbell, Jay Cutler, Blaine Gabbert, Chad Henne, Carson

Palmer, EJ Manuel, Josh McCown, Jimmy Clausen and many others."

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, you mean there are guys not good enough to be NFL QBs even without coaching? Color me surprised and shocked!!!

 

He may very well have "helped" (Nice use of quotation marks, there) them to be as good as they could be, which might well have not been good enough to be successful. He says he can help anybody. He doesn't say he can turn anybody into a superstar or even a starter.

 

Any particular reason you guys left out the fact that he's worked with Deshaun Watson? Not to mention working an awful lot with his brother? Doesn't fit your narrative, maybe?

He's also worked with Stafford.

 

Does that mean he can definitely permanently cure Allen's problems? No. But he really is an exceptionally highly-regarded QB coach. Palmer says that the accuracy problems he needs to be responsible for are due to mechanical problems. Is that all of the problems? Dunno. But it really is true that his accuracy has gotten better every time people have seen him this offseason, Senior Bowl, combine and even more so at his Pro Bowl. So he's probably correctly diagnosed a real problem for Allen. 

 

Can Allen permanently change his mechanics so that he has good fundamentals even when the pressure is on and bullets are flying? Dunno. Some guys can. Many can't.

 

But again, this is why NFL teams are interested. It's why the fans don't like him but the clubs and pundits do. Some think he can make this change, that it will impact his accuracy and that he can make it permanent. I don't have a clue. But that's where the disconnect with Allen is.

 

 

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