Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Just now, RochesterRob said: And I am being extremely consistent in that pointing out both times that a comparison means so much more when both QB's are plugged into the same test using the same supporting cast and same opponents. At no point did I say you don’t need context. I responded to a very specific claim “his stats far exceeded the previous guy.” That isn’t a claim that has shades of gray. It is true or it is false. That is what I responded to. You chose to interpret a true or false statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: AJ averaged 184 yards passing in his starts. Tyrod averaged over 200. He is 2-2. I’m not sure what numbers you are referring to (unless you are talking Jimmy G)? Jimmy G is really good and I’m thrilled to have him out of the division. Lets honestly compare 4 games to 44. 2017 - 186.6 to 184. Panthers game 107 Falcons game 164 Bengals game 139 Saints game 129 NE Pats 1 - 85 through 3 QTR's Playoff game 133 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I think McCarron could be a big and welcome surprise. He has almost all of the skills you need, but most importantly, he has that competitive fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Lets honestly compare 4 games to 44. 2017 - 186.6 to 184. Panthers game 107 Falcons game 164 Bengals game 139 Saints game 129 NE Pats 1 - 85 through 3 QTR's Playoff game 133 Again, you made the comparison not me. I responded to your claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I think we should give AJ a chance, but for me the best way to do that is to sit tight and take a QB at 12 for competition. I would rather NOT trade a ton of assets to move up and instead take Baker, Lamar, or Allen at 12...at least one will be there, maybe even 2 or all 3. Take the QB there, let them and AJ compete, and then also load up on talent around the team with the other picks. That is now my preference although I would support a trade up still, but with he way FA has happened, I think the pressure to trade up has decreased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 After 3 seasons of TT and diminishing passing 184 isn't a bad place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said: After 3 seasons of TT and diminishing passing 184 isn't a bad place to start. That isn’t “far exceeding the previous guy.” That was what you said. I simply answered that it wasn’t true. Now you are trying to move the goal posts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think we should give AJ a chance, but for me the best way to do that is to sit tight and take a QB at 12 for competition. I would rather NOT trade a ton of assets to move up and instead take Baker, Lamar, or Allen at 12...at least one will be there, maybe even 2 or all 3. Take the QB there, let them and AJ compete, and then also load up on talent around the team with the other picks. That is now my preference although I would support a trade up still, but with he way FA has happened, I think the pressure to trade up has decreased. I agree. I’ll support what they choose to do, but I’m hoping they keep the picks at this point. We could really take a leap with the players we could draft, and still get a solid QB prospect. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said: You can disagree all you like, but the Bills' 2018 receiving corps will not come close to matching the talent level of AJ Green, Marvin Jones, Mohamed Sanu, and Tyler Eifert. Probably not, but good QBs don't need good WRs. Or so I read here often. So we should be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogger Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Here's my thought process, if the player (QB) that we want is not there, trade down...tell everyone that Buffalo wanted AJ from the beginning and we played it correctly. But trade down and get another 1st for next year, maybe someone wants Jackson and needs to leap frog Arizona. Still keep two 1st, pick up a 3rd this year and another 1st next year (like we did last year) Maybe the saints want their QB of the future? Or stay put if it mean we can get one of the two outstanding ILBs. If AJ is good, that's great, gamble paid off! If he is awful, then we'll have a chance to draft Lock or Patterson, or whoever is the top QB prospect next year...regardless, that QB, will be put into a situation where we have a boat load of cap room to spend on vets and a very talented young team and a bridge QB still (AJ or Peterman). I hate putting it off for another year, but its this or we reach on a QB we are not sure of. hopefully our guy is there at 12 though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrod's friend Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 19 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: He was in Saban’s pro-style offense. He played well in big games, won two national championships. Is used to taking snaps under center. Has a 66.9% accuracy percentage which is better than every other QB prospect in this year’s draft besides Mayfield. He has now had a couple of years to sit behind Andy Dalton, a solid NFL QB, and acclimate to the NFL, and has looked good in spot duty when Dalton was out. I think going up to pick 2 is going to take all of our draft capital. I’d rather give McCarron an honest chance to be our QB. Surround him with talent from this year’s draft and let’s see what the kid can do. Accuracy percentages 2017 Mayfield. 70.1% Rosen 62.6% Darnold 63.1% Allen 56.3% Jackson 59.1% McCarron career 66.9% Don't stop there. He replaced a QB that could have arguably been considered within the top 5 of all NFL QBs in 2015; he went on to complete 65% of his passes in his first year. He won two of three games, and the put in a reputable performance against the Steelers that in reality, the team lost through no fault of AJs. I'm pointing this particular point out because some people are wanting to look at McCarron and compare him to Tyrod. How absurd. The comp in statistics would be to the player he replaced, working in the exact same situation. It is reasonable enough to say that he was put in a hard situation and the Bengals absorbed very, very little headwinds from it. Did he not pass for a lot of yards? Surely anyone that offers that has got to be joking. Their team was in a playoff run, the top QB was replaced, and we're expecting the OC to put in an aggressive offensive scheme of downfield passing??? I digress. He heavily criticized his college HC - a legend. Still, after that Nick Saban came to his defense. I suppose that is irrelevant. You could go to NFL Tracker. In 2014, he was rated 5.7 (Eventual NFL Starter). The "other guys"? Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr and Garapolo were all rated between his 5.8 and 6.2. So, three guys that led their teams to the NFL playoffs and a $27MM guy - and that last guy was a career backup until when? Let's stop and take a look at Jimmy Garapolo's numbers. Jimmy Garoppolo Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2016 Games Passing Passing Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 2014-2016 NWE 17 2 2-0-0 63 94 67 690 5 5.3 0 0 37 7.3 8.4 11.0 40.6 106.2 8 51 6.26 7.25 7.8 He had a total of 94 attempts, nearly all of them not coming until 2016. Just to comp ... and remember, NFL Tracker considered the two QBs to be nearly identical in overall rating. A.J. McCarron Passing Statistics for Career Games 2014 to 2015 Games Passing Passing Year Tm G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD 2014-2015 CIN 7 3 2-1-0 79 119 66.4 854 6 5 2 1.7 66 7.2 7.4 10.8 122.0 97.1 12 63 6.04 6.27 9.2 Maybe you see a lot of difference there. I don't. They are different players with different limitations but there isn't a reason in heck why a two-time NCAA champion that is supported by Nick Saban, that has had his own level of success in the NFL, that completes passes at a 66% rate for his entire career and admirably led his team down the stretch to a home game against the Steelers ... can't do well in Buffalo. If only you surround him with talent. He's not going to do it on his own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: I think we should give AJ a chance, but for me the best way to do that is to sit tight and take a QB at 12 for competition. I would rather NOT trade a ton of assets to move up and instead take Baker, Lamar, or Allen at 12...at least one will be there, maybe even 2 or all 3. Take the QB there, let them and AJ compete, and then also load up on talent around the team with the other picks. That is now my preference although I would support a trade up still, but with he way FA has happened, I think the pressure to trade up has decreased. I am okay with this strategy. I am more inclined to make a small trade up in the seven to ten range if it will ensure getting a qb we are particularly interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That isn’t “far exceeding the previous guy.” That was what you said. I simply answered that it wasn’t true. Now you are trying to move the goal posts. Did I actually say far exceeding? 4 games one a playoff game for AJ. There can be hope. The other guy... none. The kids in the draft.... a big unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Just now, ShadyBillsFan said: Did I actually say far exceeding? 4 games one a playoff game for AJ. There can be hope. The other guy... none. The kids in the draft.... a big unknown 4 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said: His numbers far exceed the guy he's replacing. And that in and of itself is good enough!! I want to hear the 26 take on how Jimmy G has proven himself. That is what I responded to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The fear in this thread is so palpable it's nauseating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 20 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: He was in Saban’s pro-style offense. He played well in big games, won two national championships. Is used to taking snaps under center. Has a 66.9% accuracy percentage which is better than every other QB prospect in this year’s draft besides Mayfield. He has now had a couple of years to sit behind Andy Dalton, a solid NFL QB, and acclimate to the NFL, and has looked good in spot duty when Dalton was out. I think going up to pick 2 is going to take all of our draft capital. I’d rather give McCarron an honest chance to be our QB. Surround him with talent from this year’s draft and let’s see what the kid can do. Accuracy percentages 2017 Mayfield. 70.1% Rosen 62.6% Darnold 63.1% Allen 56.3% Jackson 59.1% McCarron career 66.9% So Drafting a Rookie QB is not giving McCarron (a guy that could not beat out a BLAH Dalton) an honest chance??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauleeeWalnuts Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 20 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said: I don’t know if “the process” involves giving up an entire draft to grab a QB on a team with an inadequate WR and LB corps, and a questionable O line. Agreed here, I hope they stay at 12 and use all of their picks to bolster the roster. They should be able to grab some quality starters with these picks instead of sending away all those picks they worked so hard to obtain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: That is what I responded to. you got me for not being clear. 184 is far better than the crappy 6 games I listed of under 150 and for a 7 year pro. In 3 games of his sophomore season here are some stats ... 6 TD to 2 INT - The TD rate of 2 per game exceeds what TT did in 2017 of.8 TD per game, it exceeds the .9 TD per game in 2016 (with Sammy) and it also exceeds the 1.2 TD per game in 2015 (with Sammy). More passing attempts will net more INT's. Playoffs - Lost to Pitt 18-16. 16 pts for a 2nd year guy , not 3. 16 far exceeds 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 28 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: you got me for not being clear. 184 is far better than the crappy 6 games I listed of under 150 and for a 7 year pro. In 3 games of his sophomore season here are some stats ... 6 TD to 2 INT - The TD rate of 2 per game exceeds what TT did in 2017 of.8 TD per game, it exceeds the .9 TD per game in 2016 (with Sammy) and it also exceeds the 1.2 TD per game in 2015 (with Sammy). More passing attempts will net more INT's. Playoffs - Lost to Pitt 18-16. 16 pts for a 2nd year guy , not 3. 16 far exceeds 3 So compare all of AJ’s starts to Tyrod’s worst 6 games? That doesn’t seem to be right. He averaged 201 yards passing as the Bills QB. Why try to manipulate the stats instead of using the average? That’s obviously misleading (and disingenuous). There is no need to twist things to create a story. Let the facts speak for themselves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: So compare all of AJ’s starts to Tyrod’s worst 6 games? That doesn’t seem to be right. He averaged 201 yards passing as the Bills QB. Why try to manipulate the stats instead of using the average? That’s obviously misleading (and disingenuous). There is no need to twist things to create a story. Let the facts speak for themselves. I tried to tell you earlier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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