dave mcbride Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said: Flutie and Bledsoe much then Tyrod. Bledsoe was terrible! Why does the myth persist? After his first 8 games (i.e., over the next 40), he was one of the worst qbs in franchise history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, Steptide said: I agree that the bills will get another qb one way or another. And yes I enjoyed the playoff run just as much as any bills fan, but I put maybe 20% of the reason we got there on Tyrod. The other 80% would be a mix of defense and shady. which i'm perfectly fine with for another year while the rookie learns or even takes the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: In 2015 he started in 14 games, in 2016 he started in 15 games, and in 2017 he started in 14 games. Comparing totals to 16 game starters is never going to look good that way. At the end of the day it boils down to attempts, and there are several things that factor into attempts. In 2015 Tyrod was 35th in pass attempts per game (29.7), in 2016 he was 28th (31.9), and in 2017 he was 36th (31.1). Do I think he maintains his 7.99 YPA in 2015 if his attempts per game goes up by 5-7? No, but I also don't make that claim. His overall yardage numbers most certainly would have gone up though. Just like receiving numbers and targets. And of course everyone deals with injuries, but the fact that in 29 games one of his top 2 targets didn't play 48% of the time is pretty bad. You simply cannot make this statement without a league wide comparison of every QB and their top 2 targets during that 2 year period. Edited February 23, 2018 by jmc12290 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: You simply cannot make this statement without a league wide comparison of every QB and their top 2 targets during that 2 year period. I just did. Feel free to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: I just did. Feel free to prove me wrong. Okay. Between 2015 and 2016, Cam Newton was missing one of his top 2 targets over 50% of the time. In fact, Cam lost one of those players for 100% of 2015. I think he did okay that year. Edited February 23, 2018 by jmc12290 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, jmc12290 said: Okay. Between 2015 and 2016, Cam Newton was missing one of his top 2 targets over 50% of the time. Yes, and I would also say that is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, BuffaloHokie13 said: Yes, and I would also say that is bad. Aaron Rodgers also lost his #1 for 50% of the time between 2015 and 2016. Not between both his one and two, just his one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: TT still couldn’t pass under Alynn and the offense was incredibly unbalanced. The stats looked good but the wins did not because defenses knew what they had to do in crunch time and they were one dimensional. A DFS passing game is not a recipe for success. You have to have a balanced offense. The points looked good. 7th in the league. Add a decent D, like we have now (as opposed to whatever the Ryan twins were doing out there), and things could look a lot better record wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm not trying to be nasty about it although I did respond with some snark to the person who did the same with me. It's just that words matter. When you cite 27/6 and say that is well above average that means you are comparing Tyrod's stats to some mathematical average of all the other QBs in the same scenario. Can someone please answer the following: 1. How many games do the 27/6 stats represent? 2. What numbers were compared to Tyrod's 27/6 to support the conclusion that his play was well above average? That is my issue with the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 4 hours ago, bobobonators said: I can take another year of Tyrod on the field. I can’t take another year of the Tyrod convo on these boards. The discussion becomes nauseating. Every week, win or loss, the conversation turns into how many yards did he throw for; how many progressions did he miss; bring out the All-22 experts; create 20 weekly threads about Tyrod sucking. Its brutal. but the winning and playoffs makes it all worthwhile 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Aren't you pretty strongly on record as you would take anyone over Tyrod? Glennon, Mccarron, Glass-leg Bradford, Bridgewater, McCown, Moore etc? EJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 How much of the winning was because of Tyrod? He deserves credit for not turning it over but really the game plan is to minimize his impact on the game and force turnovers on defense. If teams don't turn it over the team is in trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, jmc12290 said: Aaron Rodgers also lost his #1 for 50% of the time between 2015 and 2016. Not between both his one and two, just his one. And his numbers dipped as expected, right? I would never say Tyrod is equal to Rodgers, but if losing your 1 has an effect on Rodgers you have to expect it to effect a lesser QB as well imo. Edited February 23, 2018 by BuffaloHokie13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Garoppolo has won 7 NFL games (5 of them on a franchise that was Loooooosing until he came in) with 67% completions, 12 TD to 5 incompletions, and (in SF) 260 ypg. If you list Watson (or Wentz), you gotta give Garoppolo his propers. OK, now we're getting somewhere. Whether you think the number is 10% or 15%, the point is - draft and develop is NOT the only way to find a franchise QB. FA or trade are not common ways to find one, but they're frequent enough to flick the meter. This past year, 8/32 teams were substantially led by QB they didn't draft. 2 of those (Taylor and McCown) are arguably not on anyone's radar to become franchise QB. That means 6/32 (19%) were led by QB who are/were or might become - Foles, Brees, Smith, Keenum, Garoppolo, Palmer. (Yes, I think Foles and Keenum might become franchise QB in the right situation, when you see a full season of good QB and playoffs out of a QB, most GMs start to think that too) I will grant you you can get a franchise QB through free agency . But your odds of finding a franchise QB are significantly higher through draft and develop. And on on top of it, you will have the rookie cheap the first 3 to 4 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Is anyone really arguing that losing Sammy and Robert hurt Tyrod's numbers? Of course it did. My issue is with the assertion that with those guys both on the field Tyrod's play was well above average. Based on what? Again, where do the 27/6 numbers come from (i.e. how many games) and what were the numbers for every other starter in the same number of games with all of his WR's healthy? It's so hard to objectively compare because all the WR are not of equal skill, and as BuffaloHokie pointed out some guys get more attempts, which results in more yards and TDs (and also more INT I would add). Coaches are different. Schemes are different. OL are different. We COULD just take Tyrod's best 16 games over his first 2 years with the Bills and put them together into 1 16 game "season." Then do the same for all the other starters in the league during that time. Then we would be comparing numbers to numbers, even as problematic as that would remain. Another way to look at Robert Woods leaving is that he just had the best year of his career. Sammy almost tied his best year in terms of TDs (8 vs 9) but his yardage was down. Marquise Goodwin had almost 1,000 yards receiving this season, easily his most productive year. Two different teams with 2 different QBs. Systems matter but there is a trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Steptide said: I agree that the bills will get another qb one way or another. And yes I enjoyed the playoff run just as much as any bills fan, but I put maybe 20% of the reason we got there on Tyrod. The other 80% would be a mix of defense and shady. If it wasn't for Cinci it just wouldn't have mattered. IMO Tyrod gets 10% while Cinci gets 10%, I agree with your 80%. Edited February 23, 2018 by xRUSHx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said: Is anyone really arguing that losing Sammy and Robert hurt Tyrod's numbers? Of course it did. Sadly yes, there are. There are people who believe Tyrod was the only thing wrong with out offense in 2017. There are people who point to his numbers and say he has regressed while the talent also degraded around him. There are people who think that if we had Randy Moss and Jerry Rice in their primes that we wouldn't be able to pass because Tyrod. It's insanity. That is why folks like GRB pull out the stats from 15 games where he had his top 2 WRs (who are nowhere near as good as Moss or Rice, obviously). Tyrod's never going to lead an offense like Brady did against us in 2015 (59 pass attempts that game alone). But he can and has performed adequately when the offense plays to his strengths and there is adequate talent around him (kinda like Andy Dalton and Alex Smith). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 50 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: The points looked good. 7th in the league. Add a decent D, like we have now (as opposed to whatever the Ryan twins were doing out there), and things could look a lot better record wise. The overall points looked good but they weren’t in the right place to translate to a playoff team. They rolled up the score on bad teams, but couldn’t win games that needed them to pull it out at the end like Seattle. You simply can’t depend on the D keeping teams to 10-15 points a game. That’s what the Bills have been doing for 20 years - trying to win with a running game and D and hide the QB. You will inevitably play offenses that no D can completely stop like NE, NO, Pitt etc and need to have a passing game to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, BuffaloHokie13 said: Sadly yes, there are. There are people who believe Tyrod was the only thing wrong with out offense in 2017. There are people who point to his numbers and say he has regressed while the talent also degraded around him. Shady's numbers were way down too. His ypc was 1.4 less in 2017 than 2016. Should be replace him too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Just now, reddogblitz said: Shady's numbers were way down too. His ypc was 1.4 less in 2017 than 2016. Should be replace him too? I'm all for picking up a talented RB on day 2 to take some carries off Shady's plate. Just like I'm all for using multiple draft picks to move up for a talented QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: And there's the thing: do we have one? An incredibly fair question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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