DCOrange Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: All of his teammates love him. Check Twitter. He's super smart and thoughtful which rubs people the wrong way. The ones that have gone public do at least. People in NFL circles have heard that's not really the case though. Edit: Supposedly. Edited February 15, 2018 by DCOrange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Josh Rosen: Ceiling: Eli Manning Basement: Jay Cutler People might be like eww gross Jay Cutler, but Cutler was pretty good in his prime. Not elite but good enough to win games with his arm. Does some dumb things with the ball that leave you scratching your head and has the infamous personality issues that rubs people the wrong way. This is worst case scenario for Rosen and for me it's not that bad. To me he is almost an exact clone of Eli Manning. Looks exactly like him when throwing. That's why I thought the Giants would just stay at 2 and pick him. The transition away from Eli over the next 2 seasons would be ideal for everyone involved. Rosen could sit and learn and mature a little bit. But if they don't want him, I would gladly take the next Eli Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 21 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: To me he seems like a california thin skinned lib, that will also likely be injured often. i agree with the poster who called him a possible jay cutler...at best. Rob Johnson perhaps? Just now, kdiggz said: Josh Rosen: Ceiling: Eli Manning Basement: Jay Cutler If his ceiling is honestly Eli Manning - well then I would pass unless you can get him at 21. Way too much capital for Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, PolishDave said: If his ceiling is honestly Eli Manning - well then I would pass unless you can get him at 21. Way too much capital for Eli. yea, who wants 2 super bowl rings? gross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, kdiggz said: yea, who wants 2 super bowl rings? gross You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor. If Eli is his floor - okay. Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, PolishDave said: You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor. If Eli is his floor - okay. Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy. He was good enough to win 2 super bowls, how is that not good enough for the Bills? Worst case you get someone like Cutler in his prime who would still be an upgrade over anyone we have had in a long time and better than any of the free agents available. Best case you get someone who could lead you to the super bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, PolishDave said: You said Eli is his ceiling - not his floor. If Eli is his floor - okay. Bills need better than Eli if they are going to mortgage their future to pay for that guy. Eli's career has two super bowl wins, albeit, involving at least one spectacular and unlikely catch. Otherwise, he seems to me a streaky player who is above average, I suppose, but not elite by any stretch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBonhamRocks Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 20 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: TreDavious White - Great Zay Jones - Jury still out Dion Dawkins - Good Shaq Lawson - Disappointing Reggie Ragland - Gone Adolphus Washington - Marginal Ronald Darby - Gone John Miller - Marginal Sammy Watkins - Gone Cyrus Kouandjio - Bust/Gone Preston Brown - Decent/UFA EJ Manuel - BUST Robert Woods - Gone Kiko Alonso - Gone Marquise Goodwin - Gone Stephon Gilmore - Gone Cordy Glenn - Good TJ Graham - BUST/Gone Marcell Dareus - Gone Aaron Williams - RETIRED Kelvin Sheppard - BUST(But we got Jerry Hughes for him) CJ Spiller - Gone Torrell Troup - BUST Alex Carrington - Gone/Not even on a roster Aaron Maybin - BUST Eric Wood - Good/Retired Jairus Byrd - Gone Andy Levitre - Gone Leodis McKelvin - Gone/Not even on a roster James Hardy - BUST Chris Ellis - BUST Even when we've hit on 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks they haven't stuck around. Let's solve our QB situation and get out of NFL purgatory. Jim Kelly's last NFL season was in 1996. It's time to get aggressive. Okay, yeah, I'm not arguing with that. I see the poster I quoted said "recently" and in my mind I was just going off what the new regime did with last year. I do think that's going too far back for "recently" and that Lawson should get a "jury still out" tag until mid-season or so this year. I'd also put Brown as better than "decent" and Glenn as better than "good". Here's to hoping the new offensive scheme will help produce an uptick/return to form for Miller, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, kdiggz said: He was good enough to win 2 super bowls, how is that not good enough for the Bills? Worst case you get someone like Cutler in his prime who would still be an upgrade over anyone we have had in a long time and better than any of the free agents available. Best case you get someone who could lead you to the super bowl Because that was Eli at his ceiling. He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses. He isn't elevating his team. You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli. That is a very bad bet. Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely. If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off. If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him. I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that. Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it. Dominance is the goal. Perennial dominance. Eli can't get you that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I finally figured out how to articulate my thoughts on the GIants trading. It does make sense for the Giants to draft a QB this year, however, it also makes sense that they grab a developmental guy instead of a top choice. If they can get an Allen, Jackson, or Rudolph they can all sit for 2+ years and mature while Eli finishes up his career. Taking a Darnold, Mayfield, or Rosen would make it difficult to have them sit even a full year. Giants fans would scream loudly the first time Eli has one of his terrible games. If they traded down to 21 and 22 and got say a Glenn (who I don't want to see traded), they would fix LT, get a developmental QB, and possibly a rb or another o-lineman. They could still have their QB of the future and get their team help now instead of the either or they are facing sitting at 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfanAZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 I think it is going to come down to cost. What is it going to take to move up to get a QB. If the Bills do love Rosen, it will be expensive to move up but I hope they dont give away the farm to do it. The Bills need a franchise QB badly but they also have other holes. I guess we will see what they do in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, PolishDave said: Because that was Eli at his ceiling. He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses. He isn't elevating his team. You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli. That is a very bad bet. Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely. If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off. If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him. I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that. Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it. Dominance is the goal. Perennial dominance. Eli can't get you that. so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins? or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB? Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level. get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, kdiggz said: so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins? or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB? Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level. get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap I could be wrong here, but I think you've created a false set of alternatives. No one is guaranteed a top 5 qb. The fella you are arguing with doesn't think Eli is a top five qb, so if you project a draft pick with a ceiling of Eli, he doesn't want to pay a bunch to move up and get that qb. You can project a qb top 5 and miss, but the point is, one would be okay trying to move up for someone you think has a reasonable chance of becoming elite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan2313 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, PolishDave said: Because that was Eli at his ceiling. He won Superbowls with great defenses and very good offenses. He isn't elevating his team. You are making the assumption that you are guaranteed two Superbowl wins if you get a QB like Eli. That is a very bad bet. Not only is it not guaranteed - it's not even likely. If you get a top 5 quarterback, you are way better off. If you can't tell me that Rosen is likely to be top 5 (he's not if Eli is his ceiling) then you don't spend that much capital to get him. I don't have a problem with Rosen (I am assuming he is going to be better than Eli), but if I thought his CEILING was Eli - then no friggin way do I trade up for that. Because then you have to assume you are going to get the crappy years of Eli along with it. Dominance is the goal. Perennial dominance. Eli can't get you that. Who the f wants our future QB to be top 10 all time in passing yards and touchdowns? I think you are underestimating just how good Eli has actually been throughout his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Just now, kdiggz said: so you spend $30 mil per season on someone like Cousins? or you get no QB's ever because nobody is guaranteed to be a top 5 QB? Rosen is cheap and will very likely be a pro bowler at this level. get him if even for 5 yrs of having a competent QB for super cheap I don't care who the Bills get as long as the guy they get ends up being dominant. I have no problem with them trading up for Rosen (or any other guy) if he is that guy. If they are right about him, then he is way better than Eli Manning. And I am okay with that. I am not okay with trading up to 2 or 3 for a guy if they think his ceiling is Eli manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Dr. Who said: I could be wrong here, but I think you've created a false set of alternatives. No one is guaranteed a top 5 qb. The fella you are arguing with doesn't think Eli is a top five qb, so if you project a draft pick with a ceiling of Eli, he doesn't want to pay a bunch to move up and get that qb. You can project a qb top 5 and miss, but the point is, one would be okay trying to move up for someone you think has a reasonable chance of becoming elite. the alternative is paying someone like Cousins who is mediocre at best $30 mil per season. if you don't think Eli Manning in his prime is good enough for us then I don't know what to tell you. he won 2 super bowls and was the mvp. i'm not sure how you can expect to do better than that in the draft. nobody thought Brady was elite, he was a 6th rounder for a reason. nobody thought Rodgers was elite, he dropped all the way into the 20's. you pick someone you think you will succeed and sometimes you are pleasantly surprised when they surpass your expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, BillsFan2313 said: Who the f wants our future QB to be top 10 all time in passing yards and touchdowns? I think you are underestimating just how good Eli has actually been throughout his career. I don't have a problem with the bills acquiring a quarterback on par with Eli Manning. He would be a substantial upgrade. I just have a problem drastically over-paying for that guy. If you can get him without overpaying, go ahead. If you are going to pay what it takes to draft number 2 or 3 this year, well, then you better get better than Eli or you aren't going to any Superbowls in the near future and you certainly aren't going to be dominant year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 47 minutes ago, thebandit27 said: Biggest question I have on Rosen's character is whether or not he loves football I tend to ignore everything anonymous scouts say to be honest. They're the most curmudgeon people on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, FearLess Price said: That would be crazy. Ive done that in madden a few times, traded all my picks in exchange for 2 or 3 1st round picks. The problem with the browns is they are extremely young and lack veteran leadership. Taking a solid QB and RB with Todd Haley calling the plays should be an upgrade. Its the Browns tho, so who knows, they might take Josh Allen lol. Hey guys I didn't go through all 16 pages so maybe it's been talked about but (IMO) it's nothing more then a smokescreen, why would we let the whole world know how much we really like him ? Or maybe it's a double reverse? Who knows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, FeelingOnYouboty said: I tend to ignore everything anonymous scouts say to be honest. They're the most curmudgeon people on Earth. It's tough to sort through the trash. When it comes to Rosen, there's so much to like. At the same time, he's got enough of a future in sports, politics, social activism, and other areas that it's appropriate to wonder whether or not football will come first to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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