2019 QB Class

[smuvtalker]

6 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Agreed, this is the strong QB class. That’s when you get the QB. 

Agree wholeheartedly.  Every year one or two QBs sneak up into the top half of the 1st, where a few manage to play their way out of the 1st.  However, this year hasn't really seen anyone make a significant drop down.  Some could argue that Darnold has had a less than stellar year, but he's still a lock for top 3 if not overall 1.  THIS is our year.  McDermott and Beane have made it known they are ready to go after a QB, and aside from a Ricky Williams draft scenario, I'm excited to see everything unfold.  I had a dream a few nights ago that i got a text that Buffalo had moved up to the 2nd spot in the draft.  Didn't see what we gave up in exchange for it though ?.

Edited February 9, 2018 by smuvtalker

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, Fan in Chicago said:

Sorry to break up your love-fest with Kirby, but as an independent observer, I dont think both your positions are that far apart. 

On the Taylor qb issue we are in a death match gun duel. On that issue I am resolute and will not yield. Don't tell Kirby but I put blanks in his pistol. I'm seeking a competitive edge.  

Edited February 9, 2018 by JohnC

[xRUSHx]

34 minutes ago, billykay said:

It was sarcasm, Rush

Sorry if you did not get mine. I just hate the topic every season and went a little off. I picked your comment because it was right on, sorry if you think I was pointing  at you or something. Happy weekend 

Edited February 9, 2018 by xRUSHx

[Alphadawg7]

This year or next is not a cut and dry situation or a plan that I think will be set in stone. 

 

Bills, like all teams, are going to have QB's in this class they like.  They will weigh the ability to get them and see what is possible.  

1. Is the QB available when we are on the board, and is he the best available player on their board.  If not, do they like him enough to take him over what other player was at the top of the board at another position.
2. Is the QB available at a specific pick above us that we can trade up to get him.

Then if the QB is available above us and they are open to trading up, these things come into play:

1. What team has that draft slot and are they willing to trade down.
2. If they are willing to trade down, are they willing to go as far down as our pick is and still get a guy they covet. 
3. Is there competition for the draft spot and what is the cost.  
4. Is Beane willing to pay whatever price that is.  
5. Could we trade to a different spot and get that same QB for less or another one they may covert as well.
6. Can we reach an agreement with any of those teams.

Its very complex, and all that just touches the surface.  So I seriously doubt any team in a position like ours is going to go into the draft and say we are 100% getting a QB this year or we are 100% getting a QB next year.  We have ammo IF they are willing to spend it.  But we also need to see who they like, who drops/available, and we also need a willing trade partner both in compensation and also trading down as far as they will with us.  For instance, if that team desperately needs a LB, and they really want Roquan, then they may not be willing to trade so far back even for the extra compensation because he likely wont last.  Maybe a team just a couple picks behind them offers them a little less but they can still get their guy...they probably take that trade over ours for those reasons.

 

I think the Bills will absolutely consider all options this year, but I also think Beane is going to go into the draft with a flexible mind and make decisions based on who the draft is falling.  With TT here, coming off the playoffs, and also FA still ahead of us...I dont see the Bills going into the draft with a desperate mentality at QB.

[smuvtalker]

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

This year or next is not a cut and dry situation or a plan that I think will be set in stone. 

 

Bills, like all teams, are going to have QB's in this class they like.  They will weigh the ability to get them and see what is possible.  

1. Is the QB available when we are on the board, and is he the best available player on their board.  If not, do they like him enough to take him over what other player was at the top of the board at another position.
2. Is the QB available at a specific pick above us that we can trade up to get him.

Then if the QB is available above us and they are open to trading up, these things come into play:

1. What team has that draft slot and are they willing to trade down.
2. If they are willing to trade down, are they willing to go as far down as our pick is and still get a guy they covet. 
3. Is there competition for the draft spot and what is the cost.  
4. Is Beane willing to pay whatever price that is.  
5. Could we trade to a different spot and get that same QB for less or another one they may covert as well.
6. Can we reach an agreement with any of those teams.

Its very complex, and all that just touches the surface.  So I seriously doubt any team in a position like ours is going to go into the draft and say we are 100% getting a QB this year or we are 100% getting a QB next year.  We have ammo IF they are willing to spend it.  But we also need to see who they like, who drops/available, and we also need a willing trade partner both in compensation and also trading down as far as they will with us.  For instance, if that team desperately needs a LB, and they really want Roquan, then they may not be willing to trade so far back even for the extra compensation because he likely wont last.  Maybe a team just a couple picks behind them offers them a little less but they can still get their guy...they probably take that trade over ours for those reasons.

 

I think the Bills will absolutely consider all options this year, but I also think Beane is going to go into the draft with a flexible mind and make decisions based on who the draft is falling.  With TT here, coming off the playoffs, and also FA still ahead of us...I dont see the Bills going into the draft with a desperate mentality at QB.

While the selfish fan in me almost wishes that the Bills would have a desperate mentality going into the draft, I'm also able to admit that in desperation often times poor decisions are made.  

 

A very thorough breakdown and supporting facts backing up your point of view.  Well stated.

 

I wonder if Wood's unexpected retirement will have significant bearing on this year's draft strategy as well?  I know that my first reaction was "Groy will be his more than capable replacement.  They didn't give him all that money for nothing."  However, I didn't think about depth, or the possibility of drafting a starter to replace Wood.  I know it seems simple at first but wanted your thoughts on if this is a little bit bigger monkey wrench than first thought.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, John from Hemet said:

I still dont think getting Rudolph would be the end of the world

 

I like him even at 21.

 

I just doubt he'll be there.

 

[CEN-CAL17]

A lot of QBs who chose to stay in another year for experience.

 

id expect next year to have 6-7 QBs taken in the first 3 rounds again.

 

Of that list, I’d expect Ryan Finley and Will Greer to be in the top 5. Drew Lock, Grier and Finley all had solid years this year.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, smuvtalker said:

While the selfish fan in me almost wishes that the Bills would have a desperate mentality going into the draft, I'm also able to admit that in desperation often times poor decisions are made.  

 

A very thorough breakdown and supporting facts backing up your point of view.  Well stated.

 

I wonder if Wood's unexpected retirement will have significant bearing on this year's draft strategy as well?  I know that my first reaction was "Groy will be his more than capable replacement.  They didn't give him all that money for nothing."  However, I didn't think about depth, or the possibility of drafting a starter to replace Wood.  I know it seems simple at first but wanted your thoughts on if this is a little bit bigger monkey wrench than first thought.

 

Thanks, and I am in the camp that believes the Wood situation will impact this more than people think.  I dont get the confidence in Groy by a lot to be a quality starting replacement. Can he start, sure...but should he is the real question.  I honestly can not remember a single game where a Center had such a negative impact on the team where I could identify them as a major cause for a loss like I could with Groy in the Seattle game after Wood left the game.  He was just awful, and it was not like he was cold, he was still rotating in and out of the lineup across the line.  

 

Groy to me is a quality depth guy whose value is in versatility.  Our offensive line is a very poor pass blocking unit already before we lost Wood.  And Groy is not as good as Wood in pass protection, in fact I think he is a better G than C in the first place.  Sure, we can just pencil him in at Center and avoid it, but our line gets weaker at Center if we do, and there is no doubt about that.  And weaker is not a good thing as this OL already struggles with pass protection.

 

I have a hard time seeing the Bills look at Groy and think "we are set".  Also doesn't mean they wont address in FA before the draft, but I do think the OL will be a high priority for this off season.  Love or hate Tyrod, there is no denying he makes the OL look better than it is just off the fact the D has to defend his ability to run as well.  Take away TT's legs and threat to run where the D can bring more heat, and this OL gets swallowed whole every time.  They were embarrassing in preseason, embarrassing anytime Peterman was on the field and TT legs were not, and anytime teams brought the heat instead of using spies to defend TT's threat to run.  

 

If we are going to invest in a new QB who isnt the running threat TT is, then that QB is going to have a long season behind the OL.  I hate the idea of drafting a C high like some mocks show, and I don't think they will do that in the first place.  But I do fully expect our OL to get addressed at the very least in FA and/or in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are years to punt on a QB.  Next year might be one.  Last year was not.  This year certainly isn't.  

 

Based on my current grades meshing #17 with #18 my order of first round grades would be:

 

1 - Rosen

2 - Watson

3 - Darnold

4 - Mayfield

5 - Trubisky

6 - Rudolph

 

Mahomes will be better then all of them. 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Mahomes will be better then all of them. 

Based on what?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

6 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

Based on what?

He's got it . He's the gunslingers gunslinger that's why.  My man Mahomes is a cyborg he has crazy talent one play he can look like Russ on the next Ben the next Rodgers,  Favre . I've never seen a QB that i compared so much to other greats. Now i realize he needs to fix his mechanics to a degree and learn how to be a professional QB as far as play calling and making the correct line calls . But those things will come with experience his flaws are fixable. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by NastyNateSoldiers

[smuvtalker]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

He's got it . He's the gunslingers gunslinger that's why.  My man Mahomes is a cyborg he has crazy talent one play he can look like Russ on the next Ben the next Rodgers,  Favre . I've never seen a QB that i compared so much to other greats. Now i realize he needs to fix his mechanics to a degree and learn how to be a professional QB as far as play calling and making the correct line calls . But those things will come with experience his flaws are fixable. 

Wow.  In a span of 4 plays, he goes from Russell Wilson, to Big Ben, to Aaron Rodgers, to Brett Favre....

 

That's high praise man....high praise.

[John from Riverside]

6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

He's got it . He's the gunslingers gunslinger that's why.  My man Mahomes is a cyborg he has crazy talent one play he can look like Russ on the next Ben the next Rodgers,  Favre . I've never seen a QB that i compared so much to other greats. Now i realize he needs to fix his mechanics to a degree and learn how to be a professional QB as far as play calling and making the correct line calls . But those things will come with experience his flaws are fixable. 

You know you could be right

 

Does it bother you a little bit that the Chiefs started slumping badly off that hot start and they didnt give him some snaps (over a QB they traded before the season was not cold yet) if he was as great as you say?

 

I have nothing against the kid......I will say that I love my boy Tre White who was just as big of a need and if they hit on their QB THIS year it will all have been worth it.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

5 hours ago, P51 said:

I think this years class is clearly better and the Bills are best suited to either sign Cousins or move up for Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen rather that waiting until next year.

 

Next years class IMO is not close to as good as this years (not with higher end prospects especially), but I dont think its 2013 bad, not spectacular by any means. 

 

Lock - Get used to being sick of hearing the term "gunslinger", there isnt a throw he doesnt like, needs to wok on checking down instead of throwing into coverage down the field, which he loves to do, but also needs to learn efficiency and utilize more quick set throws, recognizing coverage. If he can up his completion % by doing so and reduce the risky throws he could be in the 1st round mix. 

 

Thorson - If you are a purely stats guy.... Well bad on you, Thorson on paper looks like a JAG. If you can see the complete lack of talent around him and his ability to make chix salad out of chix $h!t, then you'll see a leader who I thought could have been in the first round mix this year. IMO he is more of a WCO type of QB, smart, quick decisions and the opposite of Lock interms of throwing the ball. I think he's the #1 QB heading into next year (injury is clearly a factor) in his ability to potentially play immediately, and I think he'd flourish with talent around him.

 

Eason/Browning - If Eason can win the job over the incumbent Browning at Washington he could have a big year and be a big mover heading into the draft, Browning maybe  the better college QB, but Eason has serious pro potential. Will he be allowed to showcase it? He'll likely be more of a 2020 prospect.

 

Stitham, Francois, Grier IMO have a lot of work to do, Bryant is talented but also has some work to do, all need refinement. Patterson I havent seen much of. 

 

Finley I liked a lot watching him live, but watching him back on tape there was a disconnect for me, but there is a lot to like IMO, and I think made the right decision in coming back for next season, could be in the 1st round mix. 

 

Next years Dline class is going to be spectacular! Potentially record breaking. Regardless, I hope Buffalo does not trade their 2019 1st. 

 

What about Jake Fromm?

 

 

[smuvtalker]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thanks, and I am in the camp that believes the Wood situation will impact this more than people think.  I dont get the confidence in Groy by a lot to be a quality starting replacement. Can he start, sure...but should he is the real question.  I honestly can not remember a single game where a Center had such a negative impact on the team where I could identify them as a major cause for a loss like I could with Groy in the Seattle game after Wood left the game.  He was just awful, and it was not like he was cold, he was still rotating in and out of the lineup across the line.  

 

Groy to me is a quality depth guy whose value is in versatility.  Our offensive line is a very poor pass blocking unit already before we lost Wood.  And Groy is not as good as Wood in pass protection, in fact I think he is a better G than C in the first place.  Sure, we can just pencil him in at Center and avoid it, but our line gets weaker at Center if we do, and there is no doubt about that.  And weaker is not a good thing as this OL already struggles with pass protection.

 

I have a hard time seeing the Bills look at Groy and think "we are set".  Also doesn't mean they wont address in FA before the draft, but I do think the OL will be a high priority for this off season.  Love or hate Tyrod, there is no denying he makes the OL look better than it is just off the fact the D has to defend his ability to run as well.  Take away TT's legs and threat to run where the D can bring more heat, and this OL gets swallowed whole every time.  They were embarrassing in preseason, embarrassing anytime Peterman was on the field and TT legs were not, and anytime teams brought the heat instead of using spies to defend TT's threat to run.  

 

If we are going to invest in a new QB who isnt the running threat TT is, then that QB is going to have a long season behind the OL.  I hate the idea of drafting a C high like some mocks show, and I don't think they will do that in the first place.  But I do fully expect our OL to get addressed at the very least in FA and/or in the first 3 rounds of the draft.

Yeah, Groy definitely earned his contract extension and his value much more from his versatility.   

 

WRT our pass protection this year, I kept asking myself, has Tyrod forgotten how to take off running?  Are the coaches forcing him to stay in the pocket??  Or did we take a SERIOUS step backwards in our pass protection??

[NastyNateSoldiers]

2 minutes ago, John from Hemet said:

You know you could be right

 

Does it bother you a little bit that the Chiefs started slumping badly off that hot start and they didnt give him some snaps (over a QB they traded before the season was not cold yet) if he was as great as you say?

 

I have nothing against the kid......I will say that I love my boy Tre White who was just as big of a need and if they hit on their QB THIS year it will all have been worth it.

 There was more going on in Kc then just putting the blame on Alex Smith but the answer u seek is obvious Mahomes wasn't ready yet . Although he was ripping it up in practice he still needed to learn the basics of being a NFL QB. Mahomes played in the air raid offense at Texas Tech his playbook was more like a kids coloring book compared to the NFL.  Mahomes did work very hard and has caught on pretty quickly to NFL concepts. 

 

Btw Tre went 27 who's to say we couldn't package something up and traded for him? Imagine that we could of possibly had both. Now that would of been a homerun of a draft.

17 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

Wow.  In a span of 4 plays, he goes from Russell Wilson, to Big Ben, to Aaron Rodgers, to Brett Favre....

 

That's high praise man....high praise.

I don't mean that in a 4 play sequence.  Lol 

[John from Riverside]

1 minute ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

 There was more going on in Kc then just putting the blame on Alex Smith but the answer u seek is obvious Mahomes wasn't ready yet . Although he was ripping it up in practice he still needed to learn the basics of being a NFL QB. Mahomes played in the air raid offense at Texas Tech his playbook was more like a kids coloring book compared to the NFL.  Mahomes did work very hard and has caught on pretty quickly to NFL concepts. 

 

Btw Tre went 27 who's to say we couldn't package something up and traded for him? Imagine that we could of possibly had both. Now that would of been a homerun of a draft.

It pretty much was a home run of a draft....

 

Tre White (starter)

Dawkins (starter)

Milano (eventual starter....probably our best LB)

Peterman (solid backup)

2018 first round pick

 

I reserve on Zay Jones as he was a starter but did not have a good year......but still overall that is a A draft

[YoloinOhio]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

What about Jake Fromm?

 

 

2020

[smuvtalker]

30 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

 

I don't mean that in a 4 play sequence.  Lol 

I didn't think you did lol...that was me referring to an SNL reference when Andy Samberg was ribbing Nicholas Cage....

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:

Mahomes will be better then all of them. 

 

His ceiling is certainly enormous. I just felt like there was a lot of work to do to get him there. Maybe he will, maybe he won't. We will have more of an idea - but not a complete answer - this time next year. I expect some inconsistency and a lot of interceptions as what I would call a 2nd year rookie but he has a lot of talent. I can only speak for my evaluation process not anyone elses but while ceiling plays a part the biggest factor for me is always what have they shown to this point.