John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: Tyrod loves some Tyrod Perhaps he should hate himself to make you happy Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You may be right if you cut everyone open and look into their heart (eeeeewwwww!) But it's no "spin" at all on what's been posted. A number of people, including posters I generally respect, have explictly stated multiple times their position is "anyone but Tyrod" or that they would be happy to see Peterman start. It's actually "serious spin" to claim these folks don't exist. And if you want "anyone but Tyrod" or even, a QB who can be good in the right circumstances like Keenum or Foles or Smith.....without serious upgrade to the WR and OL, it follows that's exactly what you're going to get, because a "QB who isn't very good", and a QB who slings it when he's not in sync with his WR/they aren't very good (or he is under pressure every throw) are functionally indistinguishable. I see. So there's never been one QB in NFL history who despite being new and thus not in sync with his WRs greatly improved his team's passing without major personnel improvement? Not true at all. Hell, look at Keenum this year. Keenum, Foles and Smith would probably all do significantly better here, as they're all better at getting the ball out on time, and throwing before a guy comes open. Some of Tyrod's problems are a result of Tyrod's tendencies, and some QBs - even guys who aren't that great - don't have those tendencies. It certainly is spin to say, "people who want our QB to be careless with the ball." Can you find anyone who's actually said that? Or words with that slant? And I think a lot of people's problem with Tyrod comes from a conviction that when your coach and GM have listed only one thing they need from a QB - the ability to throw from the pocket - and your current QB simply has never shown that ability that bringing in somebody who could fit the system they want to build should be a priority. "Anyone but Tyrod," is pretty clearly an exaggeration. I don't think those folks would rather see, say, Beyonce at QB, or the Dannemora escapees, or even someone with genuine football talent such as Shady at QB. They're just saying they don't want Tyrod. And an awful lot of that frustration directed at Tyrod is really more directed at his nuttier supporters (not you) not just posting bizarrely but overwhelming the threads with huge numbers of posts. A while back I went through one Tyrod thread and found one guy had about 20% of the posts on the thread. The great majority of which made not much sense. Again, I have no problem with what Tyrod said here. None whatsoever. But I don't want to give up $23 mill in cap space for one year of a guy who doesn't satisfy the one entry in the new coach's What-a-QB-Needs rubric. Edited February 8, 2018 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: well, they both go hand in hand but he might be a little delusional since he is not the most accurate to begin with. Oh he’s delusional alright- just like when he proclaimed he was a franchise QB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, dneveu said: Eh - i mean... he's a buffalo bill til hes not. He's just trying to get paid so he can buy more fancy suits. hats as well, don't forget the hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Elite Poster said: List the 17-23 QBs you believe had a better season than him this year, not QB situation you would rather have, but performance this year. Goff Brady Smith Wentz Rivers Keenum Roethlisberger Stafford Ryan Cousins Wilson Bortles Carr McCown Presott Rodgers (in 7 games) Winston Dalton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, GoBills808 said: Goff Brady Smith Wentz Rivers Keenum Roethlisberger Stafford Ryan Cousins Wilson Bortles Carr McCown Presott Rodgers (in 7 games) Winston Dalton Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, Elite Poster said: List the 17-23 QBs you believe had a better season than him this year, not QB situation you would rather have, but performance this year. On 1/2/2018 at 9:12 AM, BuffaloHokie13 said: Well, the regular season couldn't have come to a more exciting end for us. I've wrapped up the data entry, so here's the results. I eliminated the starters vs. not for this final set, and I set a minimum total attempt amount of 200 which left me with 37 qualifying QBs this year. What stands out to you? Does this come close to matching up with how you perceived QB play this year? Let me know and let's discuss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. He asked for QBs that outperformed Taylor in 2017. Rodgers fits the bill IMO. EDIT: Should have probably included Watson as well, thanks Hokie. Edited February 8, 2018 by GoBills808 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: "Anyone but Tyrod," is pretty clearly an exaggeration. I don't think those folks would rather see, say, Beyonce at QB, or the Dannemora escapees, or even someone with genuine football talent such as Shady at QB. They're just saying they don't want Tyrod. And an awful lot of that frustration directed at Tyrod is really more directed at his nuttier supporters (not you) not just posting bizarrely but overwhelming the threads with huge numbers of posts. A while back I went through one Tyrod thread and found one guy had about 20% of the posts on the thread. The great majority of which made not much sense. Dude. Over in another thread, there's a serious proposal by a generally good poster to roll next year with someone like Clemens or Siemian, Peterman, and the 5th or 6th QB in the draft. That's functionally pretty damn close to "anyone but Tyrod", and yes, "Anyone but Tyrod" has been explicitly stated by several - including one poster I generally respect. Throwing the "reduction to the absurd" by inserting Beyonce etc when clearly in context "anyone" means "any QB" is silly. I thought you were better than that. I appreciate being recognized as not one of the nuttier posters, but please realize the argument goes both ways - I think a lot of the Taylor defense is directed at his nuttier detractors (not you) similarly flooding threads with "he sucks, he's horrible" level arguments. I don't think proposing a single counter example ("So there's never been a single example of a QB in NFL history who...") is very germaine to the point. It's far more common (and topical today) to find examples of QB who performed poorly with one system and "meh" wide receivers, who suddenly looked like "all that and a bag of chips" in a friendly offensive system and with a quality WR upgrade. The guys you mention, Keenum, Foles, and Smith, are all guys who benefited greatly by moving to a system that suited them better and had top-notch WR. Goff this year would be another example. Taylor, by both eyeball test and statistically, did better with a different system and with Watkins, Woods, Goodwin, and Clay on the field. I think it's highly debatable how any of these guys would have done in Dennison's system with the WR we actually had on the field in any one game during 2018. If you don't, we just disagree, that's all. Is that saying I think Taylor = Goff, Keenum, Foles, and Smith, No, please don't even go there. The point is good WR and a system that works make many QB look better, not that it's entirely transformational. Edited February 8, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: He asked for QBs that outperformed Taylor in 2017. Rodgers fits the bill IMO. the best talent you can have is availability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said: hats as well, don't forget the hats. I vaguely remember people kept asking him about the hat, and he said something like - i needed a haircut, so i wore a hat... and now i'll never wear one again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Hemet said: the best talent you can have is availability Again, wasn't the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 It most certainly was When your talking about qb performance...you get a big fat zero when your not on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. It’s not “hate mongering” so much as it is people using their eyes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, John from Hemet said: It most certainly was When your talking about qb performance...you get a big fat zero when your not on the field So make the argument that Rodgers didn't outperform Taylor in 2017...you're only going to be able to give me 'more games started', which isn't really convincing. Because if starts mean that much to you, the next logical step would be to move on to attempts, which are what a QB does when he's playing football, and I doubt you think ranking QBs by number of attempts is meaningful in any way. Taylor was bad this year. It's born out by lots of available metrics. Please look at BuffaloHokie13's chart or an available 2017 ANY/A list for a solid analysis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 At the end of the day, there were 24 QB's that had more yards passing, more attempts, more completions and more TD's. There's 32 that had a better QB rating and 37 with more yards passing per game. There's only 2 QB's that took more sacks. In the 15 weeks that he actually played this year, he led the league in the average time from snap to throw 14 weeks. He was ridiculously bad. There's easily 16-20 guys that I would take before Taylor, including the productivity that came from their backups when they got hurt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: So make the argument that Rodgers didn't outperform Taylor in 2017...you're only going to be able to give me 'more games started', which isn't really convincing. Because if starts mean that much to you, the next logical step would be to move on to attempts, which are what a QB does when he's playing football, and I doubt you think ranking QBs by number of attempts is meaningful in any way. Taylor was bad this year. It's born out by lots of available metrics. Please look at BuffaloHokie13's chart or an available 2017 ANY/A list for a solid analysis. So in your opinion QBs that are actually not on the field should not receive downgrades in their performance evaluation....in as in they DIDNT PLAY Got it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 37 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Perhaps he should hate himself to make you happy Ryan I hope he comes to the new xfl team in your region Harvey from Hemet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: It’s not “hate mongering” so much as it is people using their eyes. Have you considered the possibility that their eyes are slow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 14 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: It’s not “hate mongering” so much as it is people using their eyes. I will try to use my eyes to look for those QBs that were actually not on the field due to injury Do you think I will see them? Just now, GoBills808 said: Have you considered the possibility that their eyes are slow I will try to use my slow eyes to find those darn qbs that didnt suit up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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