PIZ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Yeah............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 28 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Goff Brady Smith Wentz Rivers Keenum Roethlisberger Stafford Ryan Cousins Wilson Bortles Carr McCown Presott Rodgers (in 7 games) Winston Dalton That's a pretty good list I would dispute maybe a few names at the bottom of the list - Bortles, McCown, possibly Carr and Dalton, but at that point it's really a matter of personal taste - how one rates different factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, PIZ said: Yeah............ That's the Tyrod Terrible that we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, John from Hemet said: So in your opinion QBs that are actually not on the field should not receive downgrades in their performance evaluation....in as in they DIDNT PLAY Got it To me, performance is what happens while they're on the field. That's all I can go with. And you'll notice I didn't put Garroppolo (or Watson initially) on that list, only Rodgers, because I acknowledge that a smaller sample size is relevant when we're looking at newly minted/marginal QBs as opposed to a future HoF'er. But you aren't using the same standard IMO. If you were, you'd have to acknowledge yourself that merely taking the field isn't indicative of performance and that by your argument you need to factor usage into the equation. And by usage-based statistics, Taylor does not fare well in 2016 due to his extremely low amount of passing attempts. Those attempts, and their resultant statistics, are what I'm basing my opinion on. Should all QBs who start 16 games be automatically placed above the ones who start only 15 or less if you're looking to judge them performance-wise? Of course not. I don't think it's a good argument. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, PIZ said: Yeah............ You do know you can make both a highlight reel, and a "lowlight reel", for any QB? I'm not saying that Taylor doesn't have problems as a QB, which may, at this point, not be solvable problems, but just as a film of highlights doesn't show a fair picture, neither does your clip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, GoBills808 said: To me, performance is what happens while they're on the field. That's all I can go with. And you'll notice I didn't put Garroppolo (or Watson initially) on that list, only Rodgers, because I acknowledge that a smaller sample size is relevant when we're looking at newly minted/marginal QBs as opposed to a future HoF'er. But you aren't using the same standard IMO. If you were, you'd have to acknowledge yourself that merely taking the field isn't indicative of performance and that by your argument you need to factor usage into the equation. And by usage-based statistics, Taylor does not fare well in 2016 due to his extremely low amount of passing attempts. Those attempts, and their resultant statistics, are what I'm basing my opinion on. Should all QBs who start 16 games be automatically placed above the ones who start only 15 or less if you're looking to judge them performance-wise? Of course not. I don't think it's a good argument. When I evaluate I evaluate the season as a whole....which also includes games that qbs dont play Look....Im not even arguing that better qb play is needed.....its pretty obvious to me that this coaching staff is moving on. I am just saying that while we throw qbs onto a list that didnt play half the season availability should also factor into a evaluation when your looking at the season as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 35 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. I don't follow this logic at all. When a guy is on the field a good part of the season, it's possible to assess his performance in the system he's in. I give GoBills808 props - a lot of people when challenged don't "deliver the goods", he not only did so he took a pretty good shot at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: That's a pretty good list I would dispute maybe a few names at the bottom of the list - Bortles, McCown, possibly Carr and Dalton, but at that point it's really a matter of personal taste - how one rates different factors. I agree, particularly on Carr and Dalton, and there is inherent subjectivity in judging 'QB performance' as with all analysis. My overall point was that 'number of games started' doesn't factor so heavily into my personal interpretation of quarterback performance in a given season as opposed to the metrics compiled on-field. Also forgot Brees initially. Add him too, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: I agree, particularly on Carr and Dalton, and there is inherent subjectivity in judging 'QB performance' as with all analysis. My overall point was that 'number of games started' doesn't factor so heavily into my personal interpretation of quarterback performance in a given season as opposed to the metrics compiled on-field. I don't get the "number of games started" argument myself. In 2014, Foles performance fell off in several observable ways regardless of going out with injury halfway through the season. In 2018, Wentz was having a great year until the knee injury. I don't understand the argument that missing part of the season changes those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You do know you can make both a highlight reel, and a "lowlight reel", for any QB? I'm not saying that Taylor doesn't have problems as a QB, which may, at this point, not be solvable problems, but just as a film of highlights doesn't show a fair picture, neither does your clip. Yes. I totally understand that and agree. I expected someone to respond with this. But, I watched EVERY Bills game that Tyrod Taylor played in, and this clip is just a brief glimpse of the awfulness that I saw from him every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: Have you considered the possibility that their eyes are slow Actually no. I also haven’t factored in a potential lack of “eye talent.” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I don't get the "number of games started" argument myself. In 2014, Foles performance fell off in several observable ways regardless of going out with injury halfway through the season. In 2018, Wentz was having a great year until the knee injury. I don't understand the argument that missing part of the season changes those things. Right! Now you CAN make the argument, I think, that it matters if you're looking at it from a career- or 'time-spent-with-a-particular-team-' type perspective, but I was answering a question as to who had a better 2017 season in singularity. Over a long enough period of time, durability and availability definitely play a role in determining a quarterback's overall value. But I don't believe it matters a lot on a one-season snapshot when you're trying to compile a who's-better rank for a given year. 2 minutes ago, Jay_Fixit said: Actually no. I also haven’t factored in a potential lack of “eye talent.” I though everyone knew that eye talent and head size are what you look for in quarterbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 46 minutes ago, John from Hemet said: Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. To be fair ... Rodgers wasn't going to fall off a cliff in his game. Also not included Deshaun Watson was bringing it before his injury (though as a rookie we just don't know how it would have finished out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, PIZ said: Yes. I totally understand that and agree. I expected someone to respond with this. But, I watched EVERY Bills game that Tyrod Taylor played in, and this clip is just a brief glimpse of the awfulness that I saw from him every week. It's kind of a deflection. Instead of addressing what's in the video or posting a counter video it's about deflection. I won't watch the video at all or talk about what I see because it's not fair so in fairness that video doesn't count. Edited February 8, 2018 by Lfod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: You do know you can make both a highlight reel, and a "lowlight reel", for any QB? I'm not saying that Taylor doesn't have problems as a QB, which may, at this point, not be solvable problems, but just as a film of highlights doesn't show a fair picture, neither does your clip. Yes. Typically fans only see the highlight reel. Possible future coaches and or opponents concentrate more on the "lowlight reels. Find their weakness ans exploit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfod Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yes. Typically fans only see the highlight reel. Possible future coaches and or opponents concentrate more on the "lowlight reels. Find their weakness ans exploit it. Wonder if there is a highlight reel for the Panthers and Jaguars games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIZ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lfod said: Wonder if there is a highlight reel for the Panthers and Jaguars games? .........or the Saint game (11/12) or Pats game (12/3). I seriously can't believe people think Tyrod Taylor is not the problem. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, Lfod said: It's kind of a deflection. Instead of addressing what's in the video or posting a counter video it's about deflection. I won't watch the video or talk about what I see because it's not fair. Seriously? Here. Now what did we just prove, really? 10 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said: Yes. Typically fans only see the highlight reel. Possible future coaches and or opponents concentrate more on the "lowlight reels. Find their weakness ans exploit it. Huh. I woulda thought future teams and opponents focus on "neither of the above". They can't see what matters from either. I'd go for coach's film and condensed of entire games, looking for what coverages were, what he read and exploited or missed/was confused by, etc. Just my opinion, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, John from Hemet said: Your including qbs that didnt even finish the season due to injury? Jesus there is some serious hate mongering going on with some of you. 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: Goff Brady Smith Wentz Rivers Keenum Roethlisberger Stafford Ryan Cousins Wilson Bortles Carr McCown Presott Rodgers (in 7 games) Winston Dalton Lotta' guys on that list who didn't have clearly better seasons than Tyrod........in fact, clearly worse is more accurate. Mentioned it in other threads but one is Matt Ryan.......20 TD and 17 turnovers versus Tyrod's 18 TD and 6 turnovers. Jameis Winston didn't have a better year than Tyrod......not even close ......20 TD 18 turnovers. Derek Carr 23 TD and 16 turnovers........5 more TD's and 10 more turnovers? That's better? Really? And you know what? Tyrod beat all of those guys head to head. McCown is debatable........he had a career year........but he turned the ball over a lot and was fortunate not to lose more of his incredibly bad 11 fumbles. Dalton and Prescott produced 7-10 more TD's.....but neither had big TD totals...... and both had 10 more turnovers than Taylor. At WORST they were a wash with TT impact. I get that some of you don't follow other teams but this wasn't exactly the year of the QB. Since 2015 the number of 30 TD passers has dropped from 11 down to just 3 this year. Taylor's decline in TD production was due to a combination of factors........issues that some of the guys I mentioned didn't have.......like not having talent at WR or familiarity with his WR or being in an entirely new and unfavorable scheme.........but to some extent most passers saw a decline in their numbers. Edited February 8, 2018 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, GoBills808 said: He asked for QBs that outperformed Taylor in 2017. Rodgers fits the bill IMO. EDIT: Should have probably included Watson as well, thanks Hokie. Good job but what about Brees and Foles won the SB. Hell even Cutler had some better games, Tyrods numbers were more on par with backup QB stats IMO. Protect the ball and let the rest of the team win it, exactly what a backup is taught. Edited February 8, 2018 by xRUSHx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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