Horowitz's DOJ IG Report

[Koko78]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Uh-oh, Jim. 

 

 

 

Not an issue for Comey. The question was whether he authorized the leaks, not whether he was aware of them.

[Deranged Rhino]

14 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

Not an issue for Comey. The question was whether he authorized the leaks, not whether he was aware of them.

 

 

Wouldn't you be able to make a strong argument that he have had to authorize it by the nature of his title, especially if McCabe were passing along classified intel? 

 

(Unless of course McCabe went rogue)

[Koko78]

15 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

Wouldn't you be able to make a strong argument that he have had to authorize it by the nature of his title, especially if McCabe were passing along classified intel? 

 

(Unless of course McCabe went rogue)

 

If you're looking towards a perjury charge, it fails. Look at what McCabe said. He was authorized to share information with reporters by Comey and Wray, sure. However, Grassley's question to Comey was about authorizing the release of information specific to the Trump and Clinton investigations.

 

Unless there is evidence that Comey specifically told McCabe (or anyone else) that he could give information about the Trump or Clinton investigations to reporters, it cannot be proven that Comey lied in response to that particular set of questions. A general authorization to share information with reporters is not what Grassley asked.

 

Comey is a slimy worm, but he's not stupid. His answers, while disingenuous, were not lies in the context of the specific questions being asked. Grassley never asked Comey if he was aware of anyone giving the information to reporters, and who that person was. I'm sure Comey knew what Grassley was really after, but he was not obligated to give that information under oath unless he was asked the right question, which Grassley did not do.

Edited March 17, 2018 by Koko78

[Deranged Rhino]

[Nanker]

Oh, just give it to him. Give that righteous man his well-deserved pension. [/theleft]

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Comey is in BIG trouble.

17 hours ago, Koko78 said:

 

Not an issue for Comey. The question was whether he authorized the leaks, not whether he was aware of them.

 

He needs your advice, Koko:  

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[Deranged Rhino]

[row_33]

6 hours ago, Nanker said:

Oh, just give it to him. Give that righteous man his well-deserved pension. [/theleft]

 

He will get his pension through whatever means required.....

 

he has other problems at present 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

 

 

 

The TDS is strong. As if memos from a man who was fired for LYING and who has demonstrated partisan contempt of Trump will be viewed as credible by any grand jury or prosecutor. 

[row_33]

Never get hopes up that Dem puppets get their just rewards in the slammer

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

1 minute ago, row_33 said:

Never get hopes up that Dem puppets get their just rewards in the slammer

 

New rules post Trump.

[row_33]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

New rules post Trump.

 

They will stall and when the Dems win back the House in November they will impeach Trump

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[3rdnlng]

8 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

So McCabe is basically admitting some sort of malfeasance including the knowledge of malfeasance by others? Sounds like there could have been some sort of conspiracy going on. Hmmm. Could it have been an attempt by members of the DOJ and FBI to bring down a sitting POTUS? If so, I wonder if it includes treason? Don't worry about it Andy, you won't need a pension where you're going to end up.

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

So McCabe is basically admitting some sort of malfeasance including the knowledge of malfeasance by others? Sounds like there could have been some sort of conspiracy going on. Hmmm. Could it have been an attempt by members of the DOJ and FBI to bring down a sitting POTUS? If so, I wonder if it includes treason? Don't worry about it Andy, you won't need a pension where you're going to end up.

 

Yup. 

 

For all the times these same people have dismissed the notion of the "deep state" - they sure do keep reinforcing its existence and reality with their reactions to McCabe being fired. 

 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, row_33 said:

 

They will stall and when the Dems win back the House in November they will impeach Trump

That's just wrong

They need Trump until 2020.

 

They impeach Trump in 2019 then motivate GOP voters and lose 2020

 

They will use Trump not working with them to get Winfrey/Warren ticket pumped.

 

[Cinga]

52 minutes ago, Boyst62 said:

They will use Trump not working with them to get Winfrey/Warren ticket pumped.

 

You made a funny!

[keepthefaith]

3 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

So McCabe is basically admitting some sort of malfeasance including the knowledge of malfeasance by others? Sounds like there could have been some sort of conspiracy going on. Hmmm. Could it have been an attempt by members of the DOJ and FBI to bring down a sitting POTUS? If so, I wonder if it includes treason? Don't worry about it Andy, you won't need a pension where you're going to end up.

 

He's letting the prosecution know now that he'll cut a deal in exchange for testimony. 

[row_33]

2 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

That's just wrong

They need Trump until 2020.

 

They impeach Trump in 2019 then motivate GOP voters and lose 2020

 

They will use Trump not working with them to get Winfrey/Warren ticket pumped.

 

 

The Dem House will impeach Trump but the Senate will not convict

 

 

[boyst]

8 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

The Dem House will impeach Trump but the Senate will not convict

 

 

That part is impossible because there is no ground

[Koko78]

33 minutes ago, row_33 said:

 

The Dem House will impeach Trump but the Senate will not convict

 

 

 

I'd love to see a Democrat-controlled House pass articles of impeachment. Trump will get a 'yuuuuge' bump in the polls as people watch the bullSchiff unfold in the Senate trial.

[Deranged Rhino]

Two excellent articles:

 

Big picture synopsis: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/18/prequel-reminder-of-the-big-picture-in-summary/

 

What McCabe's response may tell us about what's to come: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/18/mccabe-firing-shows-evidence-of-ig-and-outside-prosecutor-working-together/

 

 

[row_33]

30 minutes ago, Koko78 said:

 

I'd love to see a Democrat-controlled House pass articles of impeachment. Trump will get a 'yuuuuge' bump in the polls as people watch the bullSchiff unfold in the Senate trial.

 

doesnt matter, two GOP terms and then the Dems will get 2

 

 

[snafu]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

Two excellent articles:

 

Big picture synopsis: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/18/prequel-reminder-of-the-big-picture-in-summary/

 

What McCabe's response may tell us about what's to come: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/03/18/mccabe-firing-shows-evidence-of-ig-and-outside-prosecutor-working-together/

 

 

 

I'm trying to understand this quote from the big picture article you linked:

 

"Chris Steele would be the laundry for the intelligence information pulled from the U.S. system. Unauthorized FISA-702(16)(17) results were passed on to Christopher Steele, likely by Nellie Ohr. Steele would then wash the intelligence product, repackage it into what became known as his “Dossier”, and pass it back to the FBI ‘small group’ as evidence for use in their counterintelligence operation which began in July 2016 [ intentionally without congressional oversight {Go Deep}].

Evidence of this laundry process is found in a significant “search query” result that was actually a mistake. The faulty intelligence mistake was the travel history of Michael Cohen, a long-time Trump lawyer. The FISA search turned up a Michael Cohen traveling to Prague. It was the wrong Michael Cohen. However, that mistaken result was passed on to Chris Steele and it made its way into the dossier. Absent of a FISA search, there’s no other way Christopher Steele could identify a random “Michael Cohen” traveling to Prague."

 

So the FBI was supposedly feeding ill-got FISA search inquiry info to Steele so he could make his report and it could be used to spy on the Trump campaign. But all of the Steele assertions are B.S.?  So what the hell type of information did the FBI pull out of electronic surveillance which could have been so dramatically wrong?  Did they give him bad info, or did Steele twist it into B.S.?

[Deranged Rhino]

25 minutes ago, snafu said:

So the FBI was supposedly feeding ill-got FISA search inquiry info to Steele so he could make his report and it could be used to spy on the Trump campaign. But all of the Steele assertions are B.S.?  So what the hell type of information did the FBI pull out of electronic surveillance which could have been so dramatically wrong?  Did they give him bad info, or did Steele twist it into B.S.?

 

A little of this... a little of that....

 

The scam they were running (for 8 years - if not longer) was to give subcontractors inside the FBI Counterintelligence division access to joint FBI/NSA servers which had the raw SIGINT collected by NSA. This allowed subcontractors - like Fusion GPS and CrowdStrike - to work around warrant requirements and the oversight that would normally accompany an FBI request to unmask US citizens' data stored on those servers. We know this was happening because Admiral Rogers shut this access down in April of '16 and ordered a review of possible abuse by these FBI subcontractors (and others) which resulted in this FISA Opinion which DNI Coats declassified last year:

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

 

They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and had to not only find a way to keep "legally" spying on team Trump but also to explain away their past quarries. That's how the Steele dossier came into existence. Remember, they tried (and failed) to get proper FISA warrants on Page and other Trump team members in the summer of '16 but they didn't have evidence to make the case. And we know the Obama administration asked the Brits to keep tabs on Trump in May of '16 (right after Rogers shut down the program - not a coincidence) which means they had EVERYTHING they could hope for... and it still wasn't enough to get a FISA. 

 

So they cooked the books.

 

The bulk of Steele's memos were written between June 15th and October 21st of '16. These were primarily (in my estimation) narratives cobbled together from pieces they had from their earlier SIGINT quarries (which we know weren't strong enough to get a FISA) to tell a more compelling (and inaccurate) story designed to win over the FISC. So, they (Nellie Ohr who was CIA/Russia specialist herself) took pieces of raw info they had and strung it together in such a way to tell a story. This was accomplished by hyping unverifiable elements and omitting key contextual details in such a way to give it the appearance of "probable cause". Steele - and his reputation - was the hat they used to make their intel product look clean. 

 

From October 21st through January of '17 - after the FBI fired Steele - he was still submitting memos to the FBI and State Department. These memos are the ones he wrote based on his Russian sources - and at that point was heavily influenced by the Kremlin itself because Mother Jones had already run an article which outed the existence (and purpose) of the dossier. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[snafu]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

A little of this... a little of that....

 

The scam they were running (for 8 years - if not longer) was to give subcontractors inside the FBI Counterintelligence division access to joint FBI/NSA servers which had the raw SIGINT collected by NSA. This allowed subcontractors - like Fusion GPS and CrowdStrike - to work around warrant requirements and the oversight that would normally accompany an FBI request to unmask US citizens' data stored on those servers. We know this was happening because Admiral Rogers shut this access down in April of '16 and ordered a review of possible abuse by these FBI subcontractors (and others) which resulted in this FISA Opinion which DNI Coats declassified last year:

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/icotr/51117/2016_Cert_FISC_Memo_Opin_Order_Apr_2017.pdf

 

They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar, so to speak, and had to not only find a way to keep "legally" spying on team Trump but also to explain away their past quarries. That's how the Steele dossier came into existence. Remember, they tried (and failed) to get proper FISA warrants on Page and other Trump team members in the summer of '16 but they didn't have evidence to make the case. And we know the Obama administration asked the Brits to keep tabs on Trump in May of '16 (right after Rogers shut down the program - not a coincidence) which means they had EVERYTHING they could hope for... and it still wasn't enough to get a FISA. 

 

So they cooked the books.

 

The bulk of Steele's memos were written between June 15th and October 21st of '16. These were primarily (in my estimation) narratives cobbled together from pieces they had from their earlier SIGINT quarries (which we know weren't strong enough to get a FISA) to tell a more compelling (and inaccurate) story designed to win over the FISC. So, they (Nellie Ohr who was CIA/Russia specialist herself) took pieces of raw info they had and strung it together in such a way to tell a story. This was accomplished by hyping unverifiable elements and omitting key contextual details in such a way to give it the appearance of "probable cause". Steele - and his reputation - was the hat they used to make their intel product look clean. 

 

From October 21st through January of '17 - after the FBI fired Steele - he was still submitting memos to the FBI and State Department. These memos are the ones he wrote based on his Russian sources - and at that point was heavily influenced by the Kremlin itself because Mother Jones had already run an article which outed the existence (and purpose) of the dossier. 

 

The process, I agree, was rotten, and I'm glad that there's some light being shined upon what appears to be abuses.  There's no justification which would make abusive domestic spying, or political spying acceptable. 

 

But there's no need to cobble B.S. from raw intelligence if the intelligence info was actual and factual.  Just use the facts if the facts are there.  Otherwise, don't even go near the FISA intel to make up B.S.  What's the point in opening up that can of worms?  Seems sloppy.  They were better off just writing fiction from their imaginations than exposing the abuses which seem to have become inherent in the system.

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, snafu said:

But there's no need to cobble B.S. from raw intelligence if the intelligence info was actual and factual.  Just use the facts if the facts are there. 

 

Unless those facts don't paint the picture you need. 

 

6 minutes ago, snafu said:

Otherwise, don't even go near the FISA intel to make up B.S.  What's the point in opening up that can of worms?  Seems sloppy.  They were better off just writing fiction from their imaginations than exposing the abuses which seem to have become inherent in the system.

 

This is where the sequence of events is important. 

 

They were not accessing the 702 data originally because they were planning to make up BS to bring to the FISC or Congress or any oversight authority. They were accessing the 702 originally to look for leverage - political or embarrassing, not necessarily criminal - they could use against Trump and all the other candidates. There's NO WAY they weren't doing that to Bernie's campaign too for example. 

 

It wasn't until Rogers, in April, called them out (by them, I mean the Obama administration because this was done with full knowledge of Holder at least) and forced them to present their reasoning to the FISC. That's why Rogers is a hero in all of this. Without that request, there would be no need for them to have gone through these hoops. This was the trigger that ignited this slowly exploding bomb that's about to take down major players in the previous administration. 

 

Everything they did after April of '16 was a reaction to Roger's request. Now they needed more than just gossip or half truths which they could use against Trump in the press or behind the scenes to get him to bow out (Clinton machine is a dirty machine), they needed to present a case to a FISC judge that someone on Trump's team was an active agent of a foreign power (to meet the requirements for a Title I). They didn't choose to open that can of worms - Rogers forced them into it. 

 

They never thought they'd get caught because Hillary was going to win, so they were sloppy AF. In part because of the pressure of Rogers and in part because of their own hubris. Once Trump won, they (again, the Obama administration/Clinton campaign and the USIC in Brennan and Clapper) knew they were exposed. That's why the conversation immediately turned to "collusion" and they hit the fear-o-meter with the bogus Jan 6th DNI report about Russia hacking the election. They were hoping to force Trump out before his administration could expose the trail they KNOW they left. That's why they made such brash and bold moves almost right away...  

 

It just didn't work. 

 

Now payback will be delicious. 

[keepthefaith]

If Steele is questioned about the accuracy of his work, won't he simply say that he gathered info from where he could and expressed to those the received it that the sources may be a bit flimsy and simply throw the FBI under the bus for using it in the ways that they did?  He did some work, he got paid to do it and he turned it over to his customers and those that had interest in the work. 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, keepthefaith said:

If Steele is questioned about the accuracy of his work, won't he simply say that he gathered info from where he could and expressed to those the received it that the sources may be a bit flimsy and simply throw the FBI under the bus for using it in the ways that they did?  He did some work, he got paid to do it and he turned it over to his customers and those that had interest in the work. 

 

He's already testified in British court (looking for the transcripts) about it all, and pretty much confirmed what's obvious that it's impossible to verify much of his work. 

 

The scary part of this in terms of the FISC is that Steele himself is irrelevant. He's not the witness, thus his reputation doesn't matter. And the sources he cites in the dossier aren't even witnesses because they're reporting second hand information they overheard. In other words, the court itself, let alone the FBI and DOJ who presented the dossier as evidence to the court, should have ever accepted it into evidence. 

 

So the question is, was the FISC judge in on it too? Or did the FBI/DOJ lie to the judge?

[snafu]

21 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Unless those facts don't paint the picture you need. 

 

 

This is where the sequence of events is important. 

 

They were not accessing the 702 data originally because they were planning to make up BS to bring to the FISC or Congress or any oversight authority. They were accessing the 702 originally to look for leverage - political or embarrassing, not necessarily criminal - they could use against Trump and all the other candidates. There's NO WAY they weren't doing that to Bernie's campaign too for example. 

 

It wasn't until Rogers, in April, called them out (by them, I mean the Obama administration because this was done with full knowledge of Holder at least) and forced them to present their reasoning to the FISC. That's why Rogers is a hero in all of this. Without that request, there would be no need for them to have gone through these hoops. This was the trigger that ignited this slowly exploding bomb that's about to take down major players in the previous administration. 

 

Everything they did after April of '16 was a reaction to Roger's request. Now they needed more than just gossip or half truths which they could use against Trump in the press or behind the scenes to get him to bow out (Clinton machine is a dirty machine), they needed to present a case to a FISC judge that someone on Trump's team was an active agent of a foreign power (to meet the requirements for a Title I). They didn't choose to open that can of worms - Rogers forced them into it. 

 

They never thought they'd get caught because Hillary was going to win, so they were sloppy AF. In part because of the pressure of Rogers and in part because of their own hubris. Once Trump won, they (again, the Obama administration/Clinton campaign and the USIC in Brennan and Clapper) knew they were exposed. That's why the conversation immediately turned to "collusion" and they hit the fear-o-meter with the bogus Jan 6th DNI report about Russia hacking the election. They were hoping to force Trump out before his administration could expose the trail they KNOW they left. That's why they made such brash and bold moves almost right away...  

 

It just didn't work. 

 

Now payback will be delicious. 

 

Two things:

--There had to be some facts to start to draw the picture.  I get your response about twisting facts to make the picture ugly, but there had to be something to lead them in that direction.

 

--I see the proof that private third parties were allowed to go belly up to the Intel trough, and Rogers shut it down, but maybe I missed any proof that after Rogers shut it down, the outsiders were being fed Intel by the insiders.  I get the Ohr/Fusion link, but that's not proof. I get the FISA/Page/spying/collusion angle -- and the leaks that went along with it.  But that's not proof of spoon feeding anyone either.

 

[row_33]

4 hours ago, Boyst62 said:

That part is impossible because there is no ground

 

The only ground required is the majority of votes in the House.

 

Gerald Ford gave us that ground back in the day

 

 

 

If the Dems win back the House they will impeach Trump, day one after taking control again

 

it won’t get a conviction in the Senate though

Edited March 19, 2018 by row_33

[Deranged Rhino]

1 hour ago, snafu said:

Two things:

--There had to be some facts to start to draw the picture.  I get your response about twisting facts to make the picture ugly, but there had to be something to lead them in that direction.

 

Target of opportunity. Russia, starting in 2014, was being pushed/hyped as a huge threat by HRC (and Obama - but her campaign made it a central plank) so the media was primed for big, bad, bear stories. That's all it was. 

 

If there were more actual facts to make that narrative fly, we'd have seen it by now imo. 

 

1 hour ago, snafu said:

--I see the proof that private third parties were allowed to go belly up to the Intel trough, and Rogers shut it down, but maybe I missed any proof that after Rogers shut it down, the outsiders were being fed Intel by the insiders.  I get the Ohr/Fusion link, but that's not proof. I get the FISA/Page/spying/collusion angle -- and the leaks that went along with it.  But that's not proof of spoon feeding anyone either.

 

The hard proof will come out in the IG report (or the indictments) - but the evidence is abundant, even if you only look at the aftermath. For example, Bruce Ohr has been twice demoted and now has been questioned over 12 times by the FBI/DOJ that we know of. None of that testimony is public, likely because it's being protected for use in upcoming (or ongoing) grand juries and indictments. His wife, strangely enough, got her HAM radio license in 2016 in May of '16... why a HAM radio? Because they're not swept up by the digital sweepers of the NSA (they're still swept up but are much harder to search or find unless you know what you're looking for):

http://thefederalist.com/2018/03/02/fusion-gpss-anti-trump-researcher-avoid-surveillance-ham-radio-license/

 

The reason she got her HAM radio license was to pass information on from her husband still at the FBI to Steele on behalf of Fusion GPS. Can't email it. Can't do it over the phone. Can't risk a public meet... 

 

Is that solid evidence? Not alone. But within the constellation of the rest of the fact pattern, it stands out as likely. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[3rdnlng]

9 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Unless those facts don't paint the picture you need. 

 

 

This is where the sequence of events is important. 

 

They were not accessing the 702 data originally because they were planning to make up BS to bring to the FISC or Congress or any oversight authority. They were accessing the 702 originally to look for leverage - political or embarrassing, not necessarily criminal - they could use against Trump and all the other candidates. There's NO WAY they weren't doing that to Bernie's campaign too for example. 

 

It wasn't until Rogers, in April, called them out (by them, I mean the Obama administration because this was done with full knowledge of Holder at least) and forced them to present their reasoning to the FISC. That's why Rogers is a hero in all of this. Without that request, there would be no need for them to have gone through these hoops. This was the trigger that ignited this slowly exploding bomb that's about to take down major players in the previous administration. 

 

Everything they did after April of '16 was a reaction to Roger's request. Now they needed more than just gossip or half truths which they could use against Trump in the press or behind the scenes to get him to bow out (Clinton machine is a dirty machine), they needed to present a case to a FISC judge that someone on Trump's team was an active agent of a foreign power (to meet the requirements for a Title I). They didn't choose to open that can of worms - Rogers forced them into it. 

 

They never thought they'd get caught because Hillary was going to win, so they were sloppy AF. In part because of the pressure of Rogers and in part because of their own hubris. Once Trump won, they (again, the Obama administration/Clinton campaign and the USIC in Brennan and Clapper) knew they were exposed. That's why the conversation immediately turned to "collusion" and they hit the fear-o-meter with the bogus Jan 6th DNI report about Russia hacking the election. They were hoping to force Trump out before his administration could expose the trail they KNOW they left. That's why they made such brash and bold moves almost right away...  

 

It just didn't work. 

 

Now payback will be delicious. 

Does this fit the timeline or did you mean to say Lynch?

[Nanker]

I think both of them. It didn’t start with Trump IIRC. They were letting their dirtbag friends eat at that trough  pretty regularly for years. 

[Deranged Rhino]

Just now, Deranged Rhino said:

Attorney statement versus the OPR statement. What does this look like to you?

 

It looks to me like CRIMINAL CHARGES SOON for McCabe.

 

[B-Man]

KEVIN MCCULLOUGH: The Coming Collusion Bloodbath.

What the universe has truly ignored is the fact that the Inspector General’s investigation (which has been far less publicized than Special Council Robert Mueller’s), and in large measure has had much more devastating impact. Agents have been fired, reassigned, and otherwise dealt with just within the process of the investigation. The limited amount of what we’ve seen from the efforts thus far have painted a picture of corruption at the highest levels, and potentially “Watergate” comparable outcomes upon the report’s issuance.

 

McCabe’s firing was directly linked to the IG’s findings, and once revealed to the Justice Department’s disciplinary powers a concurrent recommendation was termination.

 

That Comey, McCabe, and others have practiced an obvious double standard in the email case of Hillary Clinton where ample evidence caused 106 of the case agents and attorneys working on the case to believe indictment would occur, and simultaneously going to such extraordinary measures through the assistance of essentially Hillary’s campaign operation to attempt to thwart the outcome of the election is more than enough reason to go after them on a criminal basis alone.

 

That McCabe reportedly lied to the low key Inspector General, while attempting to send General Michael Flynn to prison for lying to the same FBI is of highest hypocrisy.

But hypocrisy is what Comey, McCabe, Strzok, and others seem especially gifted at.

 

 

 

Well, to be fair, it takes a hypocrite to play the corruption game at this level.

 

.

[Deranged Rhino]

[Nanker]

"Up Yer Azz, Mo Fo!" said Chuck Grassley. 

[Deranged Rhino]