WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 55 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said: Really, i'm guessing you missed Tyrods 56 and 65 yard games! Just stop with this ****, Foles is much better than Tyrod and it isn't even close. Aww cute, you can cherry pick stats. Let's go a bit broader. This, Tyrod's worst year with us has him with .933 Touchdowns per game, 186.6 yards per game, completion % of 62.6% and 6.7 YPA In Foles year with the Rams, he was .636 Touchdowns per game,186.5 yards per game, a completion % of 56.4 and 6.1 YPA. And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful. The moral of this is NOT "I am standing up for Tyrod" I think we all know we have to move on. It's that, unless you have someone like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady who seem to single handedly drag squads to the playoffs year after year Outside factors matter. If you are unable to differentiate that, I simply cannot help you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Dude, you are not listening to us. Believe me, you are whistling a different tune if you have followed his career over the past five or so years like Philly natives have. You have not seen his bad games. His good games make Tyrod look small, but his bad games make Tyrod look like Russel Wilson. The last few years had seen a stretch of really bad play, and he didn't even throw the ball all preseason because he was rehabbing from an injury. Few GMs are going to throw big money at a guy whos last success was five years ago. You are basing this gut reaction based on one really, really good game. Yes, he had a very good run in 2013. It was also, as I have pointed out, with an offensive system that was brand new to the NFL which coordinators had not caught up with yet, along with a Pro Bowl level Desean Jackdon, Shady having his best rushing year ever, and an offensive line that was graded out as the best in the NFL. You are making a call 100% on hindsight, ignoring all the games from the past three years when Foles looked like a bottom feeder instead of an All Pro, and disregarding the fact that, gee, the Eagles are really good this year. Before Wentz was hurt, they were considered an early Superbowl Champ favorite, Wentz lead the league in touchdowns and they had the best third down conversion rating in the league by a large margin. Your logic is what made teams go "Maybe there is something is Matt Cassel, he led the Patriots to an 11-5 season after all one year after the 18-1 year" If you're a Philly guy, I think you might be a bit biased anti-Foles here. I know what you're talking about on bad Foles games, but "make Tyrod look like DangeRuss" is a bit far. I have been following Foles because 1) he interested me 2) followed StL Rams though they've never become "my team" For one thing, speaking as a QB, Foles last success was not 5 years ago. For example, last year in KC he was asked to complete one game and start the next, and he played well. For another, if you look at Foles in 2014, while he didn't have the stunning TD/INT ratio and resulting high ratings, by some metrics he looked as though he was progressing as a passer - he also didn't have the stinker 38% completion, 80 yard games (Taylor has done worse, you know he has). He threw more picks, but that has to be expected as a QB progresses to throwing for tighter windows. He also threw for more YPG. IMHO you're onto something with the offensive system - DCs were adjusting and Kelly failed to match. Now, in 2015, Foles did look poor. But I think people who don't follow them don't appreciate how much disarray the Rams were in. Wrap your head around this, Keenum sucked there too. The season-long winning QB for the Vikes and the NFC Championship winning QB both sucked there. I'm not saying Foles is Mr Franchise - I think it says volumes that Pederson had to adjust a successful offense for him. But he's a better QB than Taylor has ever shown, even taking his bad games into account. 4 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful. I agree with you completely. Thing is, I believe that applies to almost every QB in the NFL. Some more than others, admittedly. Really I'm weaseling here, because I actually believe it applies to all QB in the NFL, I'm just hedging my bets. Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: If you're a Philly guy, I think you might be a bit biased anti-Foles here. I know what you're talking about on bad Foles games, but "make Tyrod look like DangeRuss" is a bit far. I have been following Foles because 1) he interested me 2) followed StL Rams though they've never become "my team" For one thing, speaking as a QB, Foles last success was not 5 years ago. For example, last year in KC he was asked to complete one game and start the next, and he played well. For another, if you look at Foles in 2014, while he didn't have the stunning TD/INT ratio and resulting high ratings, by some metrics he looked as though he was progressing as a passer - he also didn't have the stinker 38% completion, 80 yard games (Taylor has done worse, you know he has). He threw more picks, but that has to be expected as a QB progresses to throwing for tighter windows. He also threw for more YPG. IMHO you're onto something with the offensive system - DCs were adjusting and Kelly failed to match. Now, in 2015, Foles did look poor. But I think people who don't follow them don't appreciate how much disarray the Rams were in. Wrap your head around this, Keenum sucked there too. The season-long winning QB for the Vikes and the NFC Championship winning QB both sucked there. Dude, believe me, there was a time when I desperately wanted Foles to come here. He is, after long observation in my opinion: a journeyman QB who is a high level backup or a low end starter. And you know, what, that's cool. If you surround them with enough talent, and have excellent OC work and keep a steady run game and excellent defense, you can go very far. In fact, he might win a Super Bowl. But yeah, in STL with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons he didn't do well. By every measure, Tyrod did better this year with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons. Scheme. Coaching. Playcalling. The other 10 players on the field. All of these matter. Dropping Foles in here might have won a game or two more (maybe) but we have seen the drop off when he doesn't have elite talent around him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Dude, believe me, there was a time when I desperately wanted Foles to come here. He is, after long observation in my opinion: a journeyman QB who is a high level backup or a low end starter. And you know, what, that's cool. If you surround them with enough talent, and have excellent OC work and keep a steady run game and excellent defense, you can go very far. In fact, he might win a Super Bowl. But yeah, in STL with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons he didn't do well. By every measure, Tyrod did better this year with a poor OC and not a lot of weapons. Scheme. Coaching. Playcalling. The other 10 players on the field. All of these matter. Dropping Foles in here might have won a game or two more (maybe) but we have seen the drop off when he doesn't have elite talent around him. Not only that, but he played like crap in a couple of games this season with the Eagles. It was downright ugly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Not only that, but he played like crap in a couple of games this season with the Eagles. It was downright ugly! Agreed. And it goes to how much coaching and play calling is a factor. It looks like Pederson purposefully ran a vanilla offense with Foles in the first few weeks back, and saved integrating the RPO into the playoffs so opponents would have less tape on it. Same players, adjusted playcalling. It made a hell of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Agreed. And it goes to how much coaching and play calling is a factor. It looks like Pederson purposefully ran a vanilla offense with Foles in the first few weeks back, and saved integrating the RPO into the playoffs so opponents would have less tape on it. Same players, adjusted playcalling. It made a hell of a difference. They were actually doing quite a bit of RPO all season long. Some adjustments were made, but Foles simply was not playing well after his initial start against the NYG. In the MNF game against the Raiders on Christmas night he was putrid and did not look better in the season finale. He was decent against ATL in the divisional round and outstanding in the NFC Championship game against the Vikings as we saw. Edited January 23, 2018 by 26CornerBlitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xRUSHx Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Why would they try for a different QB we have a QB hand picked by Rex himself. Everyone knows Rex is a QB guru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) On 1/21/2018 at 7:57 PM, BuffaloRebound said: If Foles plays like this against Pats, would you trade one of our 1st rounders for him? Oooh. Better I shouldn't be tempted, I'll say that. I would be surprised if he plays like this against the Pats, let me just say that. George Edwards and Mike Zimmer got gamed in the chess match by Reich and Pederson. I don't think that happens to Matt Patricia, especially now that Pederson tipped his hand in the media and the Pats have the NFC Champ game film. Edited January 23, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: Aww cute, you can cherry pick stats. Let's go a bit broader. This, Tyrod's worst year with us has him with .933 Touchdowns per game, 186.6 yards per game, completion % of 62.6% and 6.7 YPA In Foles year with the Rams, he was .636 Touchdowns per game,186.5 yards per game, a completion % of 56.4 and 6.1 YPA. And now, to reiterate: I AM NOT TAKING AWAY WHAT FOLES DID ON SUNDAY. It is, by every measure, fantastic. What I am saying to you is that scheme, coaching, playcalling and surrounding talent have contributed a lot to his successes, and when he hasn't had them, he has looked dreadful. The moral of this is NOT "I am standing up for Tyrod" I think we all know we have to move on. It's that, unless you have someone like Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady who seem to single handedly drag squads to the playoffs year after year Outside factors matter. If you are unable to differentiate that, I simply cannot help you. Who's cherry picking? Go away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Just now, PeterGriffin said: Who's cherry picking? Go away! You mean, that instead of picking 2 games randomly I used both of their worst seasons as a starter as comparison and averaged out for a per game basis so you couldn't use that as a bias? You just don't like that I have comprehensive data to back up my point. There is a contingent of fans here who hate Tyrod so much that they blindly grasp at anyone who they think might be an improvement. It's time to prepare a replacement, but the grasping at straws I have seen is ludicrous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 i can't believe the stupidity in this thread. foles is better than any qb we've had since bledsoe if not kelly.....but some people just have to cling to the horrible season with the rams....and claim it's a system...he has a good team....bla,bla,bla. well if he wins the sb, how many nfl records or rankings will he have?....and he came off the bench a few games ago? some people here are either extremely jealous or brain dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 4 hours ago, PeterGriffin said: Really, i'm guessing you missed Tyrods 56 and 65 yard games! Russell Wilson passed for 93 yards on Christmas Eve in Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Gun Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 2 hours ago, WhitewalkerInPhilly said: You mean, that instead of picking 2 games randomly I used both of their worst seasons as a starter as comparison and averaged out for a per game basis so you couldn't use that as a bias? You just don't like that I have comprehensive data to back up my point. There is a contingent of fans here who hate Tyrod so much that they blindly grasp at anyone who they think might be an improvement. It's time to prepare a replacement, but the grasping at straws I have seen is ludicrous. Why did you pick their worst seasons? Why didn't you pick their best seasons? Cherry picking at it's finest. Carry on! 54 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: Russell Wilson passed for 93 yards on Christmas Eve in Dallas. Golf clap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yav Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I think that's more the system in Philly. Foles wasn't great at Arizona, good but not great and he wasn't anything special when he was traded to the Rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 minute ago, PeterGriffin said: Why did you pick their worst seasons? Why didn't you pick their best seasons? Cherry picking at it's finest. Carry on ...Because my entire premise is that while Foles has flown higher, he has also crashed lower. This is the direct link to that. It's his inconsistency which has prevented him from becoming a franchise QB. A lot of us here are performing one hell of a double standard: giving him praise on the games and stretches where he was amazing, and disregard the stretches when he wasn't on bad coordinators and a lack of personnel. It's the argument the biggest Tyrod fans (including myself) have leaned on, and the answer is that neither is a franchise QB, so let's quit acting like we have one as a millstone around our neck while the other is a sparkly unicorn who we missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterGriffin said: Golf clap 93 yards. You don't think we should judge a QBs worth based on his lowest passing yards game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Will he be available after the super bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 17 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: 93 yards. You don't think we should judge a QBs worth based on his lowest passing yards game? He will act when utter confusion when he finds out that even with Tyrod's worst games this year, he was still better than Nick Foles in St. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Domdab99 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 If the Bills were to pay a premium for Nick Foles because of the last couple of games, that would be the most Billsy thing of all. Remember Rob Johnson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, Domdab99 said: If the Bills were to pay a premium for Nick Foles because of the last couple of games, that would be the most Billsy thing of all. Remember Rob Johnson? Pretty sure that Foels has played more games than the ONE good game RJ had before the Bills bet the farm on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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