Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Obviously having a great QB helps a lot in trying to win the Super BOwl, but I think watching Brady, and Manning to an extent over the last 20 years have skewed the way we look at this. They may be #1 and #2 of all time. Maybe when Brady retires, we'll be a little closer to what football was in the 80's and 90's. Meaning you can build a great team at all the positions outside of QB and still contend for the Super Bowl without a great QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Hey, I would be so happy if the Jags somehow pulled it off that I wouldn't argue on the Bills message board about the need for a QB for 2-3 weeks! I would love it because it would mean the Paties** lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 hmmmm --- scoring TD's by passing 35 TD's and 18 INT or 14 TD's and 4 INT give me 35 please 2 hours ago, Nihilarian said: The simple truth is that if Peterman hadn't played so poorly in the first half of that Chargers game on the road he would still be starting, IMHO. (Speaking of the Chargers I still don't get why the Bills had the tiebreaker over them when the Bills lost outright and had the same record.) Alas, Bortles did what it took to beat the Bills and Taylor didn't, as he had chances in the red zone. Conference records AFC EAST W L T PCT HOME ROAD DIV CONF Buffalo Bills 9 7 0 .563 6-2 3-5 3-3 7-5 Los Angeles Chargers 9 7 0 .563 5-3 4-4 3-3 6-6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Teddy KGB said: If you say so. Bortles has 2 playoff wins in 3 years Tyrod has zero in 7 ? If you want to play that game, BB is 21-40 on his career Tyrod is 22-20. 3 hours ago, Nihilarian said: You, sir, are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. The simple truth is that if Peterman hadn't played so poorly in the first half of that Chargers game on the road he would still be starting, IMHO. (Speaking of the Chargers I still don't get why the Bills had the tiebreaker over them when the Bills lost outright and had the same record.) Alas, Bortles did what it took to beat the Bills and Taylor didn't, as he had chances in the red zone. Then like in many games this season Tyrod went invisible in the second half of that Jags playoff game as he has done in many, many games in his career. That and 3 points against Carolina, 3 points against the Patriots, 3 points against the Jags. The point is, this teams coach's don't believe in TT as much as some of the fans and I suspect he will no longer be a Buffalo Bill starting the 2018 season. To be honest I was hoping that Taylor would have taken some steps forward this season especially with the addition of a huge red zone target in KB. Part of this I blame the Bills OC Dennison and I suspect the coaches do too and such the reason Dennison is gone. Peterman... I agree if he wasn’t a hideous dumpster fire he may have continued starting. Isn’t that sort of how it works? The folks that have some irrational hate for TT can’t simply accept the fact that he has been an effective nfl starting QB. hes not above average. hes not going to win you games on his own. he is going to win you more than he loses. If you need more than 25 passes per game out of him, you probably aren’t winning. But if the 3 guys playing this weekend not named Tom Brady can be here, so can he, with an excellent team around him. Edited January 19, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/18/2018 at 2:30 PM, billieve420 said: I would take KC's offense any day over what the Bills tried to run this year. Reid is ahead of the curve when it comes to offense. I think he could pull similar numbers out of Tyrod if the roles were reversed. 3500 yds 25 TDs and under 10 INTs is definitely not out of the question. If you add rushing TDs, Tyrod could be a 30 and 10 guy. Reids entire life as a head coach culminates in a bunch of teams that start strong and prolific then Peter out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 I'm praying for a Bortles - Keenum matchup in the Super Bowl... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: Reids entire life as a head coach culminates in a bunch of teams that start strong and prolific then Peter out I wish we had had as many wins and playoff games the last 17 years as Andy has had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 11 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I wish we had had as many wins and playoff games the last 17 years as Andy has had. Sure enough, but the pattern is so consistent. He even had Vick put up a 100 passer rating on the season until the steeler ffound a nickel blitz destroyed there whol offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Nihilarian said: I like Tyrod Taylor and was hoping to see great improvement this last season and he didn't progress. I thought we were all in agreement as a fanbase that the OC and the WR personnel were awful? You expected Tyrod to GREATLY IMPROVE in that situation? Really? Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then? Is he a bum because his play dropped off so dramatically? There is just a lot of nonsensical reasoning in the anti-Tyrod rationale. Long term you need a franchise QB to be competitive year-in and year-out for a decade.......that's been the case for decades now........but what's going on with the anti-Tyrod crusade is just "anybody but" scapegoating. Nick Foles, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles have all been in the "he will never be able to win" category VERY recently. Wise-up folks. Wanting to get better at a position doesn't mean you have to create a narrative in your mind that the QB you want to replace is incompetent. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy KGB Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: If you want to play that game, BB is 21-40 on his career Tyrod is 22-20. I don’t want to play any games. Bortles is clearly better this year and still playing. Partly because Taylor stinks and scored 39 less points than Big Ben vs the same defense ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️. Get him outta here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said: I don’t want to play any games. Bortles is clearly better this year and still playing. Partly because Taylor stinks and scored 39 less points than Big Ben vs the same defense ☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️. Get him outta here Im ok getting him outta here, but it better be better. No more Kyle EJP Trentpatrickbartsonflute I don’t want to surrender a mediocre pro bowler for an even worse dumpster fire. he might not be able to make progressions or get to the third read, but at least with a clean pocket he can hit a WR more often than not in most places on the field and if it breaks down he can keep it alive better than most. Edited January 20, 2018 by Over 29 years of fanhood 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Sure isn’t a Peyton-Brady matchup tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 3 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: I thought we were all in agreement as a fanbase that the OC and the WR personnel were awful? You expected Tyrod to GREATLY IMPROVE in that situation? Really? Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then? Is he a bum because his play dropped off so dramatically? There is just a lot of nonsensical reasoning in the anti-Tyrod rationale. Long term you need a franchise QB to be competitive year-in and year-out for a decade.......that's been the case for decades now........but what's going on with the anti-Tyrod crusade is just "anybody but" scapegoating. Nick Foles, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles have all been in the "he will never be able to win" category VERY recently. Wise-up folks. Wanting to get better at a position doesn't mean you have to create a narrative in your mind that the QB you want to replace is incompetent. 2 We didn't know that Dennison was going to be useless in Tyrod's and Peterman's development before the season started and so I actually did expect Taylor to further develop. "Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then?" Because we now know that the run game coordinator/line coach wasn't an upgrade either as both the run game and line regressed. The run game stats besides rushing TDs did get somewhat better later on in the season but I attribute that more to McCoy's ability to make defenders miss over the blocking of the line. There was a real reason as to why Dennison was fired and I'm hoping that Castillio follows him out the door. I was a big fan of Tyrod Taylor until this past year when I saw what Taylor looked like in some games. Most particularly in that Saints game in Buffalo. The Bills drive chart went FG-PUNT-PUNT-PUNT-INTERCEPTION-PUNT-PUNT-DOWNS-TD that one and only TD with 1:10 left in the game was by Nathan Peterman. Peterman stats in the same game against that Saints defense in the fourth quarter. 7 of 10 for 79 yards, 1 TD. A 126.7 rate. Kelvin Benjamin actually saw the ball a few times. Week 2 against Carolina, Taylor went 17 of 25 for 125 yards-0-0. The entire game. Week 10 against the Saints, Taylor went 9 of 18 for 56 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT with a rate of 33.6 in 3/4 of that game. This performance got him benched. Week 13 against New England, Taylor went 15 of 34 for 115 yards-0-1 INT. a rate of 35.6 The entire game. Wildcard game at Jacksonville, Taylor went 18 of 40 for 148 yards-0-2 INTs. a rate of 44.2 It's not a narrative in my mind, its a fact! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, Nihilarian said: We didn't know that Dennison was going to be useless in Tyrod's and Peterman's development before the season started and so I actually did expect Taylor to further develop. "Why didn't McCoy GREATLY IMPROVE then?" Because we now know that the run game coordinator/line coach wasn't an upgrade either as both the run game and line regressed. The run game stats besides rushing TDs did get somewhat better later on in the season but I attribute that more to McCoy's ability to make defenders miss over the blocking of the line. There was a real reason as to why Dennison was fired and I'm hoping that Castillio follows him out the door. I was a big fan of Tyrod Taylor until this past year when I saw what Taylor looked like in some games. Most particularly in that Saints game in Buffalo. The Bills drive chart went FG-PUNT-PUNT-PUNT-INTERCEPTION-PUNT-PUNT-DOWNS-TD that one and only TD with 1:10 left in the game was by Nathan Peterman. Peterman stats in the same game against that Saints defense in the fourth quarter. 7 of 10 for 79 yards, 1 TD. A 126.7 rate. Kelvin Benjamin actually saw the ball a few times. Week 2 against Carolina, Taylor went 17 of 25 for 125 yards-0-0. The entire game. Week 10 against the Saints, Taylor went 9 of 18 for 56 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT with a rate of 33.6 in 3/4 of that game. This performance got him benched. Week 13 against New England, Taylor went 15 of 34 for 115 yards-0-1 INT. a rate of 35.6 The entire game. Wildcard game at Jacksonville, Taylor went 18 of 40 for 148 yards-0-2 INTs. a rate of 44.2 It's not a narrative in my mind, its a fact! 56 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Nick Foles, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles have all been in the "he will never be able to win" category VERY recently. Wise-up folks. Wanting to get better at a position doesn't mean you have to create a narrative in your mind that the QB you want to replace is incompetent. Indeed. In fact I was told this time last year that wanting to replace Tyrod with Keenum and cap space was willfully downgrading the Quarterback position..... There are some "anybody but Tyrod" folks. And they do over exaggerate his flaws. There are also too many way too comfortable with what we have based on the evidence what we have has put on tape. Edited January 20, 2018 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Indeed. In fact I was told this time last year that wanting to replace Tyrod with Keenum and cap space was willfully downgrading the Quarterback position..... There are some "anybody but Tyrod" folks. And they do over exaggerate his flaws. There are also too many way too comfortable with what we have based on the evidence what we have has put on tape. NFN GB but I don't know if Keenum plays as well in Dennison's scheme/playcalling as he did in Pat Shurmur's this year. Besides this new regime really wanted to see what they had in Taylor this season IMO. Looking back at Shurmur's past he coached Nick Foles to a career year (8-2) in 2013 and in that time helped Chip Kelly have two 10-6 seasons with top 5 offenses. The Eagles changed QB's to Bradford and things didn't go as well. Shurmur went to Minn and they brought in Bradford in 2016 Bradford started hot going 2-0 this year before his season-ending injury. Pat Shurmur is probably the next NY Giants HC. No question Keenum is having a career year in his sixth year and is greatly helped by an outstanding receiver corps, the #1 defense in the league along with a very potent run game. That said, the Bills brought in new OC Brian Deball and are now moving away from the WCO scheme to an Erhardt/Perkins scheme like the Patriots run. This to me sounds like Taylor is a foregone conclusion move to more of a pocket passer. This also sounds like he will better help develop Peterman. No to Alex Smith, Cousins and Sam Bradford, a new rookie QB look like the stronger possibility, JMHO Edited January 20, 2018 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 12 hours ago, reddogblitz said: 56 yards I think you need to clear your paste buffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 9 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Indeed. In fact I was told this time last year that wanting to replace Tyrod with Keenum and cap space was willfully downgrading the Quarterback position..... There are some "anybody but Tyrod" folks. And they do over exaggerate his flaws. There are also too many way too comfortable with what we have based on the evidence what we have has put on tape. Hold on now.......to put that call into perspective........Keenum was AWFUL with the Rams (9 TD 11 INT) despite having a superstar RB in Todd Gurley in the backfield. His WR corps was not good at all. Sound like a familiar situation? Because Tyrod was in a very similar situation this year as Keenum was with the Rams. But unlike Keenum with the Rams......TT's athleticism allowed him to compete and win games. Passing game weapons matter even more for non-franchise guys like Keenum and Tyrod. Thielen and Diggs are as good of a 1-2 punch at WR as there is in the NFL. And the Vikings GREAT defense allowed Keenum to play in a balanced offense. He's not a gunslinger you want trying to carry you with the passing game. Now *maybe* Dropzone Jones and Jordan Matthews would have been playmakers for him in Dennison's offense....... but I HIGHLY doubt that. Keenum probably struggles and gets battered like he did in LA and the Bills are drafting much higher and replacing him with a QB anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: Hold on now.......to put that call into perspective........Keenum was AWFUL with the Rams (9 TD 11 INT) despite having a superstar RB in Todd Gurley in the backfield. His WR corps was not good at all. Sound like a familiar situation? Because Tyrod was in a very similar situation this year as Keenum was with the Rams. But unlike Keenum with the Rams......TT's athleticism allowed him to compete and win games. Passing game weapons matter even more for non-franchise guys like Keenum and Tyrod. Thielen and Diggs are as good of a 1-2 punch at WR as there is in the NFL. And the Vikings GREAT defense allowed Keenum to play in a balanced offense. He's not a gunslinger you want trying to carry you with the passing game. Now *maybe* Dropzone Jones and Jordan Matthews would have been playmakers for him in Dennison's offense....... but I HIGHLY doubt that. Keenum probably struggles and gets battered like he did in LA and the Bills are drafting much higher and replacing him with a QB anyway. Peak TT with a host of weapons and no tape out on him in 2015 did not have as good as a year passing as Keenum in 2017. Minny's offense in 2017 was also better than the Bills 2015 offense. And the Bills had Shady at RB, not 4 games of Dalvin Cook and then JAGs. Tyrod's ceiling is very limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 (edited) For everyone on the "You don't need a franchise QB" bandwagon.... Have a look at who is standing on top when the smoke clears in this playoff season, and note who the QB is. You might be surprised to see that he is one of only THREE QBS who represented the AFC in the Superbowl in 14 of the last 16 seasons. All three are certain HOFers, 2 of them are among the best to ever play the position. (Brady, Manning, Big Ben). The evidence suggesting you need an absolute beast of a franchise QB is overwhelming. Edited January 20, 2018 by Fadingpain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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