Top two NFL QBs in salary, did not make the playoffs

[reddogblitz]

6 minutes ago, dlonce said:

 

Depends what your definition of a franchise QB is.

 

Does your QB realistically give you a chance to win and make the playoffs? Can he actually make throws and take a chance when it’s needed most? Has said QBs made the playoffs in prior years?

 

What one team values as a franchise QB another one doesn’t. Do I think Stanford is a QB worth his money? No,but Detroit does.

 

There are really only a handful of true future HOF QBs in the league and those guys are in the playoffs every year and win SBs.

Whats your point? You can win without breaking the bank? Sure can,but a QB who can play gives you a much better opportunity to get to the promised land,which is the whole purpose of playing.

 

We don’t have a QB who gives us a chance and it’s time we take a chance to find one,regardless of money.

I defer to Beane.

 

 

 

My point is this nonsense that if you get the right QB you can have a crappy team at all other positions and the team will win anyway.  It's BS.  You need a good team and coach whether you have a "franchise QB" or not to make the playoffs.  Fish made it last year with Fannyhill and Matt Moore for example.  Vikings made it this year with Case Keenum.  Saints missed last year with Drew Brees.  Phillip Rivers has missed playoffs more often than he made them.

 

We need a better QB.  Key word is BETTER. 

 

We could dump Hotrod and end off worse.  Think of the Chargers game for example.

Edited December 28, 2017 by reddogblitz

[billsfan_34]

21 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

I totally agree. 

QB is a brutal position to play nowadays as far as scrunity.

Few years ago with Manning, Brady, Rodgers ,Luck running the NFL, the QB position got extremely overvalued.

Ppl make it seem like it's a cure all for the whole team, it's the most important position in the game,but besides some once in a decade QB's , they need a very good supporting cast to succeed, wish Taylor had that opportunity and praying we get in the playoffs!

Tyrod can break down a defense, our defense can beat up offense, need to be consistent. 

Bingo- see Russel Wilson- good but not great. He has an incredible supporting cast/system.

[Mr. WEO]

20 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

Not sure of the salary, but Phillip Rivers and Joe Flacco hopefully will be joining them Sunday.  Add Marcus Mariota (maybe) and Jameis "Crab Legs" Winston to the franchise QBs sitting out the playoffs. Russell Wilson may be too.  Add Suck for Luck and Watson and Rodgers due to injury.  Trbisky.

 

Meanwhile Alex Smith and Case Keenum are in.

 

I thought if you had a franchise QB you were set?  I'm confused.

 

You are confused.

 

Flacco, Rodgers and Russell have won SBs.  Rivers has had more than one playoff appearance.  MAriota and Winston are top picks on not very good teams (hence the top picks).

 

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Mr. WEO

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

You are confused.

 

Flacco, Rodgers and Russell have won SBs.  Rivers has had more than one playoff appearance.  MAriota and Winston are top picks on not very good teams (hence the top picks).

 

You are confused.

 

That's what I said.

 

But bottom line, "franchise QB" is a guy I like.  It's a vague term with no criteria besides I say he is or I say he isn't.  It's silly. You say guys that have won SBs are.  What about Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostettler and Brad Johnson?  Are they "franchise QBs"?  The whole concept is silly IMHO.  

 

Oh, and no QB can carry the whole team on his back to wins when he is surrounded by bad players and coaches. NO QB!

 

Edited December 28, 2017 by reddogblitz

[Mr. WEO]

2 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

That's what I said.

 

But bottom line, "franchise QB" is a guy I like.  It's a vague term with no criteria besides I say he is or I say he isn't.  It's silly. You say guys that have won SBs are.  What about Trent Dilfer and Jeff Hostettler and Brad Johnson?  Are they "franchise QBs"?  The whole concept is silly IMHO.  

 

Oh, and no QB can carry the whole team on his back to wins when he is surrounded by bad players and coaches. NO QB!

 

 

 

Always a pleasure to see someone try to define a rule by it's exceptions.

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Always a pleasure to see someone try to define a rule by it's exceptions.

 

I'm not the one that said if a QB wins the SB he is a "franchise QB".  See how silly this is.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I'm not the one that said if a QB wins the SB he is a "franchise QB".  See how silly this is.

 

 

Neither did I.  I was just pointing out that those franchise QBs, although they are not in the playoffs this year, have certainly had playoff success with their teams and even won SBs with them.  Pretty simple.

 

You, on the other hand, say that because of Hofstettler, Johnson and Dilfer won SBs, there's no such thing as a franchise QB--- that the term has no meaning.

[reddogblitz]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

there's no such thing as a franchise QB--- that the term has no meaning.

 

Right you are.

 

It's like sitting around the cracker barrel arguing about who was a better hitter, Mickey Mantle or Barry Bonds.

 

Fun, I guess for some, but totally meaningless.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

The lesson I see here is to be smart and not overpay for a guy because of the lack of elites in the league.   

[Foreigner]

Correct SBF.

Also , the point everyone is skating around is that GMs and Personnel dept. guys that are smart enough

to wind up with franchise QBs seem to be smart enough to know enough about talent to have talent

surrounding their franchise QBs, and having talent is one thing that makes QBs franchise guys.

The Browns have had bad QBs, so is it a coincidence they also have other bad talent.

As good as some of these franchise guys are now,  I don't think they would be that if they were 

Quarterbacking the Browns this year. Does anyone really think that the 0-15 Browns would be in the

playoffs this year if they had a franchise QB?

Which brings up talent. Does anyone think we can get talent in the draft that matches Watkins, Woods,

Goodwin, Dareus, Gillislee, Darby, Ragland, etc. We gave up a ton of talent, and we may get some

back in the draft, but we will not get back all the talent we lost. And don't say we got Matthews, 

Gaines and Benjamin among others, when they can't stay on the field.

 

 

[Foreigner]

And speaking of injuries, Charles Clay and Cordy Glenn were hurt when training camp started. Clay

maybe even when we got him from Miami. He made it through this year like last year missing so many

practices, but it has hurt his talent. Are we going to start next years training camp with more injuries?  

[keepthefaith]

It is the stupidity of the owners that go along with the agents constant requests to escalate QB salaries based on comparisons to other overpriced QBs and the perceived future value of a franchise QB that is the cause of the subject of this thread.  

 

That and I'll throw in the guaranteed contracts for coaches and GMs that underperform are also stupid.   

Edited December 28, 2017 by keepthefaith

[Big Turk]

That's because salaries are no longer based on who is better than you or where you rank.  They are based on "Are you being paid like 'X' type player". In this case 'X' type player is a franchise QB.  And the answer was yes, they are paying them like that so they basically look at the biggest contract signed and then say I should make more due to inflation and the salary cap going up, and that's the contract.

 

It has really nothing to do with how good they are in relation to their peers that are within the same category as them.

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by matter2003

[Samwell Tarly]

On 12/27/2017 at 6:38 PM, reddogblitz said:

Not sure of the salary, but Phillip Rivers and Joe Flacco hopefully will be joining them Sunday.  Add Marcus Mariota (maybe) and Jameis "Crab Legs" Winston to the franchise QBs sitting out the playoffs. Russell Wilson may be too.  Add Suck for Luck and Watson and Rodgers due to injury.  Trbisky.

 

Meanwhile Alex Smith and Case Keenum are in.

 

I thought if you had a franchise QB you were set?  I'm confused.

No a guarantee, just increases the odds.  Injuries, poor supporting cast, and bad  coaching can still screw it up.

[CEN-CAL17]

OP obviously thinks Tyrod can win a Super Bowl if you just build around him....

[Foreigner]

I didn't say that, nor am I'm saying that now. I'm saying TT has a winning record his 3 years with the Bills,

and with more talent, meaning the DL, OL and WRs we are easily a playoff team. Also, the 2

head coaches he has had, have supposedly been D gurus, though both defenses have not  done

what Schwartz did with the D. And with a different OCs things would have been better

[Dorkington]

On 12/28/2017 at 11:01 AM, Woodman19 said:

Despite what people think, you still need to build a team behind a QB to be successful, you don't simply shuffle your fingers until you get an Aaron Rodgers then just put your feet up and watch the Superbowls come rolling in every year.

This. There are maybe 2 or 3 QBs in the league that can carry a mediocre team to the playoffs. The rest need to have a decent team around them to get anywhere. This idea that you can just draft a stud QB and be set for life is so stupid. 

[MiltonWaddams]

On 2017-12-27 at 4:49 PM, Rigotz said:

This is a dumb argument.

 

Packers went from one of the best teams in the league to one of the worst when Rogers got hurt.

 

Colts went from best team in the league to first overall pick when Peyton Manning got hurt.

 

A great QB can win you Super Bowls and playoffs for DECADES. Are there exceptions? Sure. Carr had a bad year and Stanford has never been Elite.

 

Do I want to swing for the fences and hope to lock in the single most important position on the field for decades? Of course I do.

 

If you’re not thinking that way, you are dumb. Period.

When you say "Stanford" are you referring to Luck or the Lions QB. I would say both are elite. Staffords 2016 season was phenomenal. He's taken a small step back this year, but he's easily a top 10 QB.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

This team will never win a Super Bowl with Taylor, I will take any and all bets on that one. Once Shady starts to decline their is no way Taylor is going to pick up the slack. 

 

Taylor needs to be traded and if we get no takers he needs to be released. 

 

The blame will go on McD and he will be fired which means a new OC for Taylor. Jay Cutler syndrome is alive and well in Buffalo with OC #4 trying to squeeze blood from a stone.

[KingRex]

16 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I thought if you had a franchise QB you were set?  I'm confused.

The problem is that while folks recognize that yes, it is necessary to have a franchise quality QB to be a true NFL winner, it is not sufficient in and of itself.

 

The NFL is a great game in large part because it is a TEAM sport.  It is almost always necessary to acquire a franchise quality QB to lead not only your offense but your team.  However, the offense is like it or not a third of the game.  A winner also  NEEDS a solid D and a good ST in order to win.

 

Yes, a franchise quality QB can help (and even lead through setting a team example, keeping the O on the field and giving the ST solid field position.  However, my sense is that a big part of the Bills decade+ playoff drought is because we over focus on the search for the next Jimbo that we either push young QBs to start before they are ready or hurt the team by devoting too much cap space to the QB.

 

I think a key move for the Bills to build a winner is DO NOT trade our multiple high picks to draft one it is to be hoped h is a franchise QB as the strategy of drafting a franchise QB and developing him into an SB winner actually demands there is a team around this stud.  The Bills have too many holes to make the bet a stud rookie QB turns this team unto a winner.