Shaq Lawson and Jordan Matthews to IR

[CommonCents]

1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:

 

It's weird.

 

Jordan Matthews was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Marquise Goodwin was better after he left the Bills.

 

Robert Woods was better after he left the Bills.

 

Chris Hogan was better after he left the Bills.

 

Kelvin Benjamin was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Anyone know if that has to do with the QB's these guys were playing with on different teams?  Is there a common thread anyone can see here?  Bueller?  Bueller?

 

Buffalo is the upside down for WRs. Dark, scary, lonely and a high probability of getting killed from attempting to catch some of these passes.

[4BillsintheBurgh]

3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Hot take alert: Brandon Reilly will finish the season with more yards and TDs than Matthews. He will need to average about 70 a game and score twice. I have a feeling that he might be a player. 

So if Taylor plays you're calling for Reilly to get about 80% of the action? 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

What's that got to do with the comparison between Matthews and Watkins? 

 

 

I didn't compare Matthews to Watkins.  I asked why Matthews was productive in 2016 and unproductive in 2017?

[ShakAttack]

17 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

 

It's weird.

 

Jordan Matthews was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Marquise Goodwin was better after he left the Bills.

 

Robert Woods was better after he left the Bills.

 

Chris Hogan was better after he left the Bills.

 

Kelvin Benjamin was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Anyone know if that has to do with the QB's these guys were playing with on different teams?  Is there a common thread anyone can see here?  Bueller?  Bueller?

 

There you go.   

 

And I noticed Sammy isn't on that list, but he will be soon.

 

Everyone can enjoy making fun of his stats while you can because he's actually starting to find his role over there in LA..

 

Heck, I see that everyone has conveniently neglected to mention the fact that he has scored touchdowns in 4 of the past 5 games.

[BigDingus]

17 minutes ago, jmc12290 said:

 

It's weird.

 

Jordan Matthews was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Marquise Goodwin was better after he left the Bills.

 

Robert Woods was better after he left the Bills.

 

Chris Hogan was better after he left the Bills.

 

Kelvin Benjamin was better before he became a Bills WR.

 

Anyone know if that has to do with the QB's these guys were playing with on different teams?  Is there a common thread anyone can see here?  Bueller?  Bueller?

 

Nailed it on the head again. 
 

42 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

 

Leads the teams with 17 YPC and 6 TD Receptions (4 TDs in the last 5 games). Has generated 27 first downs on his 31 receptions in only 51 targets all while drawing the opponents' best cover corner game every game often with Safety help over the top.  Meanwhile, let's take a comparative look at the Bills' Receiving Corps AKA Corpse.   

 

 

 

Interesting, Gurley has the same amount of receptions as McCoy, only he averages 11.7 yards per reception as opposed to 6.3, AND the Rams have their other top 2 leaders in receptions with 47 & 51 receptions respectively. We have 57 receptions to TE's (25%), 77 to RBs (35%), and 91 to WR's (40%)....In comparison, the Rams have 39 to TE's (16%), 53 to RBs (21%) and 155 to WR's (63%)... 

See what a good QB can do? We throw to RB's or TE's for 60% of our completions, whereas they only throw to their RB's & TE's for 37% of their completions. They are Tyrod's PRIMARY focus whereas good teams use them as secondary targets or outlet passes. Woods & Watkins have the benefit of a very good QB spreading the ball out, where our WR's have the benefit of being ignored most games. 

Even then, they are far from "dominant." If anything it shows we made a good move in getting rid of Watkins. He only had a year left, was going to demand big money, probably wanted to play elsewhere, was injured the past 2 seasons, and his production was limited. He averages 17.0yards a reception because he's his most useful in deep routes. Tyrod threw to him deep, now Goff is. He averaged 16.0 yards a reception with the Bills too.

[26CornerBlitz]

2 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

 

Nailed it on the head again. 
 

Interesting, Gurley has the same amount of receptions as McCoy, only he averages 11.7 yards per reception as opposed to 6.3, AND the Rams have their other top 2 leaders in receptions with 47 & 51 receptions respectively. We have 57 receptions to TE's (25%), 77 to RBs (35%), and 91 to WR's (40%)....In comparison, the Rams have 39 to TE's (16%), 53 to RBs (21%) and 155 to WR's (63%)... 

See what a good QB can do? We throw to RB's or TE's for 60% of our completions, whereas they only throw to their RB's & TE's for 37% of their completions. They are Tyrod's PRIMARY focus whereas good teams use them as secondary targets or outlet passes. Woods & Watkins have the benefit of a very good QB spreading the ball out, where our WR's have the benefit of being ignored most games. 

Even then, they are far from "dominant." If anything it shows we made a good move in getting rid of Watkins. He only had a year left, was going to demand big money, probably wanted to play elsewhere, was injured the past 2 seasons, and his production was limited. He averages 17.0yards a reception because he's his most useful in deep routes. Tyrod threw to him deep, now Goff is. He averaged 16.0 yards a reception with the Bills too.

 

That's attributable to a disparity in the level of talent at WR bewteen the respective teams as well as an OC in Sean Mcvay who knows how to design plays with sophiosticated route concepts to take advantage of matchups. 

[BigDingus]

38 minutes ago, BobBelcher said:

 

There you go.   

 

And I noticed Sammy isn't on that list, but he will be soon.

 

Everyone can enjoy making fun of his stats while you can because he's actually starting to find his role over there in LA..

 

Heck, I see that everyone has conveniently neglected to mention the fact that he has scored touchdowns in 4 of the past 5 games.

 

He's has had a couple of good streaks in the past... He's just not consistent, and he's definitely NOT dominant. He also wasn't worth getting bent out of shape over.

His rookie season he had a 7 game stretch averaging 5 receptions, 80 yards and had 5 total TDs. In 2015 he had a 6 game stretch where he averaged 6 receptions, 113 yards, and 1 TD. However, in 2016 he only had two games with 80 yards or more, while he averaged only 24.5 yards a game for the other 6. The guy is always "ready to break out" but then never does. He's good for a couple games a year to the point where you think "man, this guy really has talent!" only to disappear for games at a time.

He may have 4 TD's in 5 games, but that's to be expected. With 4 games left, he'll probably end up tying his record of 9 for the season if he plays well. He's still going to finish well under his average for receptions and yards, while having a better QB and playing in better weather. He's averaging 17 yards a reception, but that's only 1 yard higher than his regular 16.0 average. Sammy wasn't a big loss.

Edited December 6, 2017 by BigDingus

[Manther]

3 hours ago, Chris66 said:

Whaley was a very good talent evaluator. Not his fault hevwas given not hired 2 head coaches. Hard to buy the groceries when you you dont know what your making

Agreed 

[simool]

2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Blah Blah Blah

 

 

That is one of the worst counter arguments I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Best receiver on the Rams? BFD

 

He is crap compared to the rest of the NFL.  http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

 

And yes Buffalo's receivers are a level or two below crap, but hell how the hell are they supposed to get the ball?  This ain't bowling you know.

[nucci]

12 hours ago, WMDman said:

this should make JMatt easier to re-sign

He played his last game as a Bill

[26CornerBlitz]

6 hours ago, simool said:

 

That is one of the worst counter arguments I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Best receiver on the Rams? BFD

 

He is crap compared to the rest of the NFL.  http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

 

And yes Buffalo's receivers are a level or two below crap, but hell how the hell are they supposed to get the ball?  This ain't bowling you know.

 

What you retorted with is actually crap.  The best WR on highest scoring team in the NFL is a BFD with him being a key component on that offense. 

[Coach Tuesday]

It's unbelievable around here.

 

Go back and look at the trade-day threads regarding Sammy and Matthews - so many folks around here were thrilled to see Watkins go, calling him soft and injury-prone.  Many of those same posters were referring to Jordan Matthews as a tough-as-nails "number one" receiver.

 

Where are those posters now?  Glad you asked - many of them are commenting in this thread...

[Royale with Cheese]

20 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It's unbelievable around here.

 

Go back and look at the trade-day threads regarding Sammy and Matthews - so many folks around here were thrilled to see Watkins go, calling him soft and injury-prone.  Many of those same posters were referring to Jordan Matthews as a tough-as-nails "number one" receiver.

 

Where are those posters now?  Glad you asked - many of them are commenting in this thread...

 

We were also told Taylor was an average starting QB....

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It's unbelievable around here.

 

Go back and look at the trade-day threads regarding Sammy and Matthews - so many folks around here were thrilled to see Watkins go, calling him soft and injury-prone.  Many of those same posters were referring to Jordan Matthews as a tough-as-nails "number one" receiver.

 

Where are those posters now?  Glad you asked - many of them are commenting in this thread...

This is true.  Several posters thought Matthews was actually better than Sammy.

 

Absolutely absurd take.  Dig out those topics dude.

[thebandit27]

Sammy is the same player in LA that he was here: absolutely dominant when he's targeted.

 

He's catching 61% of his targets and leads the team in YPR, YPT, and TDs despite having almost no offseason to learn the offense or get on the same page as the QB.

 

8 hours ago, simool said:

 

That is one of the worst counter arguments I have ever had the pleasure of reading. Best receiver on the Rams? BFD

 

He is crap compared to the rest of the NFL.  http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&season=2017&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

 

And yes Buffalo's receivers are a level or two below crap, but hell how the hell are they supposed to get the ball?  This ain't bowling you know.

 

Yeah, about the comparison to the rest of the NFL, well, context matters.

 

- Watkins ranks 4th in the NFL in yards/reception among qualified WRs (i.e. those that have a minimum of 1.875 catches per game)

- Watkins has 3 fewer receiving TDs than Antonio Brown and DeAndre Hopkins, despite having 90 fewer targets come his way

- Watkins' catch rate of 61% is nearly equal to Brown's (62%) and outpaces Hopkins' by 6.5%

- Watkins' yards/reception is 3.0 yards greater than either Hopkins or Brown, and his yards per target of 10.35 is significantly better than either player (Hopkins - 7.69, Brown - 9.13).  His yards/target number continues to be astronomical by the way--he easily leads the entire NFL in this category since coming into the league.  Combing through WR stats for 2017, he appears to be leading the NFL in this category again.

 

For further investigation, I refer you to Football Outsiders, where Watkins ranks 7th in the entire NFL in DYAR, and 2nd in the entire NFL in DVOA:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

All of which brings me back to the point that I always make about WRs: targets are, by a substantial margin, the number 1 factor in determining a receiver's productivity.  That Sammy produces at the clip that he does despite not receiving a Julio Jones or Antonio Brown-like target share is, frankly, astonishing.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Sammy is the same player in LA that he was here: absolutely dominant when he's targeted.

 

He's catching 61% of his targets and leads the team in YPR, YPT, and TDs despite having almost no offseason to learn the offense or get on the same page as the QB.

 

 

Yeah, about the comparison to the rest of the NFL, well, context matters.

 

- Watkins ranks 4th in the NFL in yards/reception among qualified WRs (i.e. those that have a minimum of 1.875 catches per game)

- Watkins has 3 fewer receiving TDs than Antonio Brown and DeAndre Hopkins, despite having 90 fewer targets come his way

- Watkins' catch rate of 61% is nearly equal to Brown's (62%) and outpaces Hopkins' by 6.5%

- Watkins' yards/reception is 3.0 yards greater than either Hopkins or Brown, and his yards per target of 10.35 is significantly better than either player (Hopkins - 7.69, Brown - 9.13).  His yards/target number continues to be astronomical by the way--he easily leads the entire NFL in this category since coming into the league.  Combing through WR stats for 2017, he appears to be leading the NFL in this category again.

 

For further investigation, I refer you to Football Outsiders, where Watkins ranks 7th in the entire NFL in DYAR, and 2nd in the entire NFL in DVOA:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

 

All of which brings me back to the point that I always make about WRs: targets are, by a substantial margin, the number 1 factor in determining a receiver's productivity.  That Sammy produces at the clip that he does despite not receiving a Julio Jones or Antonio Brown-like target share is, frankly, astonishing.

less verbose:

 

Sammy Watkins was a set of $10000 rims on an 85 taurus.

 

[CountDorkula]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It's unbelievable around here.

 

Go back and look at the trade-day threads regarding Sammy and Matthews - so many folks around here were thrilled to see Watkins go, calling him soft and injury-prone.  Many of those same posters were referring to Jordan Matthews as a tough-as-nails "number one" receiver.

 

Where are those posters now?  Glad you asked - many of them are commenting in this thread...

I was not one of those.

 

I laughed and argued with everyone who said Matthews will be better because he doesn't get hurt.

 

Matthews career with the bills is over, he did nothing here, so congrats Beane, You got what you wanted, I think?

[thebandit27]

34 minutes ago, joesixpack said:

less verbose:

 

Sammy Watkins was a set of $10000 rims on an 85 taurus.

 

 

There are probably worse ways to summarize what I wrote, but I currently can't think of any

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

There are probably worse ways to summarize what I wrote, but I currently can't think of any

 

The crux of your overly verbose post was:

 

Quote

All of which brings me back to the point that I always make about WRs: targets are, by a substantial margin, the number 1 factor in determining a receiver's productivity. 

 

Which led to my response. With a QB who doesn't like to pass, having a WR is wasted.

 

Like $10,000 rims on an 85 taurus.

 

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

There are probably worse ways to summarize what I wrote, but I currently can't think of any

It’s been maddening to watch Sammy. He has a lot of the same things happening in LA as here. He doesn’t get enough targets. He produces on par with all of the elites on a per target basis but for some reason doesn’t get the targets that they do.