To everyone who was so adamant that the Bills start Peterman

[CodeMonkey]

On 11/19/2017 at 7:47 PM, sven233 said:

To all the posters that will undoubtedly trash each other in this thread, remember 1 thing.....  Just because the new QB failed his first test, doesn't mean that the old QB is good.  The fact is, our QB of the future is not on the roster.

 

So, whether you are a Tyrod fan or a Peterman fan, it really doesn't matter.  Just because they both are not good doesn't mean you have to fight about which one is less terrible than the other one.

 

Really can't wait for the draft at this point.  We need a real QB on this team.....whoever that may be.

Also need an offensive line.  The primary reason Peterman did so poorly is because he is a pocket passer, and had absolutely no pocket to pass from the entire game.  Taylor can use his legs to make up somewhat for that deficiency, Peterman cannot.  No pocket passer will be successful on the Bills until the line can create and maintain a pocket most of the time. Until then, you need an escape artist like TT, even with his other flaws.

 

I have to assume that the coaching staff saw enough potential in practices that told them that with protection, Peterman could get the job done.  We simply do not know about Peterman yet. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

17 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Also need an offensive line.  The primary reason Peterman did so poorly is because he is a pocket passer, and had absolutely no pocket to pass from the entire game.  Taylor can use his legs to make up somewhat for that deficiency, Peterman cannot.  No pocket passer will be successful on the Bills until the line can create and maintain a pocket most of the time. Until then, you need an escape artist like TT, even with his other flaws.

 

I have to assume that the coaching staff saw enough potential in practices that told them that with protection, Peterman could get the job done.  We simply do not know about Peterman yet. 

You can't bring facts to a pissing contest.  It's just not allowed.  

 

[grb]

7 hours ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

You can't bring facts to a pissing contest.  It's just not allowed.  

 

 

Speaking of facts, here are two other ones, equally relevant :

• The most egregious fault in Peterman's start was his response to pressure. Taylor faced an equivalent rush in the Jets game yet threw zero interceptions. Yes, massive improvements to the o-line will better what was seen in the Chargers game, but Peterman will still face pressure. After all, even Dak faces pressure. If Peterman throws up wounded ducks every time someone is in his face, you'll get three interceptions a game, rather than five in a half - but it will still be an issue.
• "I have to assume that the coaching staff saw enough potential in practices that told them that with protection, Peterman could get the job done." Yeah. And with Minnesota's o-line and weapons, Case Keenum is suddenly an all-pro. With Dallas' o-line and weapons Dak is franchise - until you start whittling away at some of his support, then he looks a bit more human.  In the fifteen games when both Watkins & Woods played, Taylor did this : 63.6% comp. 8.25 YPA. 27 TD passes. 6 ints, so maybe he improves with better support, ya think? You might want to consider the extremely high probability Taylor would outperform Peterman each stage as the supporting cast is improved. Can you really claim any evidence otherwise? 

Edited November 29, 2017 by grb

[Malazan]

On 11/19/2017 at 6:37 PM, Billsfan1972 said:

And that anyone saying otherwise knew nothing about how bad Tyrod is and the stupidity of all the experts who don't watch the Bills.......

 

Explain away.......

 

The 5th round rookie wasn't good. Guys. Pack it up. Taylor is the QB forever.

Edited November 29, 2017 by jeremy2020

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

8 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

The 5th round rookie wasn't good. Guys. Pack it up. Taylor is the QB forever.

Somewhere else.  

[Bing Bong]

19 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

As did Fitz, EJ, Trent, KyleOrton, Shane Matthews, JP, Thaddeus Lewis, Drew Bledsoe, Kelly Holcombe, Flutie, and Rob Johnson.

 

It was painfully obvious to anyone paying attention in pre season as opposed to Nasty Nate ball washing as so many were.

They're probably all better than Peterman lol.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 11/26/2017 at 7:05 PM, JohnC said:

That so called monumental screw up had no bearing on the game because the Bills were going to lose to the better team regardless who played. 

 

 

Unfortunately, they did have a chance in that game but that's how momentum works.

 

Funny how a game against a 3-6 team at a practically neutral site has become the most unwinnable game ever in the eyes of so many people who were wrong about the merits of starting Peterman over Taylor.    Oh those kooky Peterphiles.

 

 

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Unfortunately, they did have a chance in that game but that's how momentum works.

 

Funny how a game against a 3-6 team at a practically neutral site has become the most unwinnable game ever in the eyes of so many people who were wrong about the merits of starting Peterman over Taylor.    Oh those kooky Peterphiles.

 

 

The Chargers are an immensely better team than Buffalo. Our defense couldn't stop their offense. Rivers demonstrated why he is going to be considered for the HOF by the way he carved up our defense. As the Chiefs falter there is a good chance that the Chargers can win that division or get a wild-card spot. The reason why the staff resorted to the rookie is because Taylor was not playing well. That's a fact.

 

I don't believe Peterman is a starting caliber qb now or will ever be. At best I think he can be a serviceable backup. Odds are that the Bills will draft a qb with a high pick. There is a good chance that TT won't even be on our roster next year. If that happens that certainly isn't a ringing endorsement of him by his own organization.  That's not only the position of the current regime but it is the same conclusion of the Whaley regime. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The Chargers are an immensely better team than Buffalo. Our defense couldn't stop their offense. Rivers demonstrated why he is going to be considered for the HOF by the way he carved up our defense. As the Chiefs falter there is a good chance that the Chargers can win that division or get a wild-card spot. The reason why the staff resorted to the rookie is because Taylor was not playing well. That's a fact.

 

I don't believe Peterman is a starting caliber qb now or will ever be. At best I think he can be a serviceable backup. Odds are that the Bills will draft a qb with a high pick. There is a good chance that TT won't even be on our roster next year. If that happens that certainly isn't a ringing endorsement of him by his own organization.  That's not only the position of the current regime but it is the same conclusion of the Whaley regime. 

 

 

That's not the way football works John.

 

There have been weeks where you have to wonder how the Bills hung in defensively against a number of teams they've played.........but they did because they play football one series at a time.

 

That's how the Bills have managed to win or be in most of their games.

 

They are out-talented most weeks and yet have managed to win more than they've lost by playing one series-at-a-time Jauron Ball.

 

The philosophy behind it is that bad teams.......which a 3-6 team has been........will beat themselves if you don't help them.

 

You can pretend the Chargers are actually an immensely better team....like the Patriots.....but they aren't.   

[26CornerBlitz]

13 hours ago, CodeMonkey said:

Also need an offensive line.  The primary reason Peterman did so poorly is because he is a pocket passer, and had absolutely no pocket to pass from the entire game.  Taylor can use his legs to make up somewhat for that deficiency, Peterman cannot.  No pocket passer will be successful on the Bills until the line can create and maintain a pocket most of the time. Until then, you need an escape artist like TT, even with his other flaws.

 

I have to assume that the coaching staff saw enough potential in practices that told them that with protection, Peterman could get the job done.  We simply do not know about Peterman yet. 

 

Explain this away.

 

[CodeMonkey]

10 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Explain this away.

 

Because he missed one downfield pass ?  Seriously? You are right, I've never seen TT miss on a pass like that. Obviously Peterman had all kids of time all game.  He just sucks and is a bust.  This proves it.  Case closed 

Edited November 30, 2017 by CodeMonkey

[26CornerBlitz]

5 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Because he missed one downfield pass ?  Seriously? You are right, I've never seen TT miss on a pass like that. Obviously Peterman had all kids of time all game.  He just sucks and is a bust.  This proves it.  Case closed 

 

What does TT have to do with this play where Peterman had a totally clean pocket despite your claim to the contrary?  This play should have exemplified his purported strength as an accurate pocket passer. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

25 minutes ago, CodeMonkey said:

Because he missed one downfield pass ?  Seriously? You are right, I've never seen TT miss on a pass like that. Obviously Peterman had all kids of time all game.  He just sucks and is a bust.  This proves it.  Case closed 

Sarcasm??              

 

FWIW - Copypaste hates and I mean he really hates Nate.  

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

That's not the way football works John.

 

There have been weeks where you have to wonder how the Bills hung in defensively against a number of teams they've played.........but they did because they play football one series at a time.

 

That's how the Bills have managed to win or be in most of their games.

 

They are out-talented most weeks and yet have managed to win more than they've lost by playing one series-at-a-time Jauron Ball.

 

The philosophy behind it is that bad teams.......which a 3-6 team has been........will beat themselves if you don't help them.

 

You can pretend the Chargers are actually an immensely better team....like the Patriots.....but they aren't.   

The better team won on the home field. You and many others are making the assumption because the HC resorted to going with the rookie qb that the results would have been different. In this game it didn't matter. The Chargers' DL, especially Bosa, overwhelmed our OL. With or without TT as the starter the home team, the better, would have won. What you and many others who are taking the same position refuse to acknowledge is that the coach resorted to a qb change for a reason. The starter was struggling and the offense was stuck. 

 

I agree with you that the Bills are a team whose roster is lacking talent. Yet they are winning their share of games because they are gritty. That's the point! This is a rebuilding process with its usual ups and downs. They are where they should be. There is still a lot to be done to upgrade the roster, especially at the qb position. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

The better team won on the home field. You and many others are making the assumption because the HC resorted to going with the rookie qb that the results would have been different. In this game it didn't matter. The Chargers' DL, especially Bosa, overwhelmed our OL. With or without TT as the starter the home team, the better, would have won. What you and many others who are taking the same position refuse to acknowledge is that the coach resorted to a qb change for a reason. The starter was struggling and the offense was stuck. 

 

I agree with you that the Bills are a team whose roster is lacking talent. Yet they are winning their share of games because they are gritty. That's the point! This is a rebuilding process with its usual ups and downs. They are where they should be. There is still a lot to be done to upgrade the roster, especially at the qb position. 

     

 

THIS IS FROM A TAYLOR FAN!!!!   

 

Always a pleasure John (well until we disagree) 

[JohnC]

30 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What does TT have to do with this play where Peterman had a totally clean pocket despite your claim to the contrary?  This play should have exemplified his purported strength as an accurate pocket passer.

If you are basing your judgment on a player based on his first outing then you are being ridiculously premature. Based on your standard the Rams should have traded Goff because he was overwhelmed in his rookie year. What you and others refuse to acknowledge Is that the rookie got playing time because the starter was struggling. The replacement didn't work out. Get over it! 

[Billsfan1972]

12 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Explain this away.

 

What's more egregious was Clay was wide open on the other side and Peterman looked him off.  

 

If that was Tyrod, we'd have 20 pages as this is the perfect example why Tyrod stinks.  

 

Oh yea Peterman on this play missed the pass badly and a wide-open receiver he looked off......

 

Also he had one on one and if thrown in the field of play maybe a td too........

 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Billsfan1972

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

If you are basing your judgment on a player based on his first outing then you are being ridiculously premature. Based on your standard the Rams should have traded Goff because he was overwhelmed in his rookie year. What you and others refuse to acknowledge Is that the rookie got playing time because the starter was struggling. The replacement didn't work out. Get over it! 

This is all you get from him JohnC.  He hates Nate, almost with a passion. 

 

other than dozens of embedded tweets from twits. 

 

Is there a joke here 

Web Page Blocked

that I am missing? 

 

Seriously -  why are people quoting broken links ? 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

     

 

THIS IS FROM A TAYLOR FAN!!!!   

 

Always a pleasure John (well until we disagree) 

Brothers in disagreement. 

 

The Peterman experiment didn't work out. Too many people are trying to exaggerate its importance by making it seem as if it was a catastrophe that sabotage the season. It simply wasn't. 

[26CornerBlitz]

6 minutes ago, JohnC said:

If you are basing your judgment on a player based on his first outing then you are being ridiculously premature. Based on your standard the Rams should have traded Goff because he was overwhelmed in his rookie year. What you and others refuse to acknowledge Is that the rookie got playing time because the starter was struggling. The replacement didn't work out. Get over it! 

 

Been saying the same thing about him since preseason based on his play in college and now in nfl action.  He's a marginal talent at this level. 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, ShadyBillsFan said:

This is all you get from him JohnC.  He hates Nate, almost with a passion. 

 

other than dozens of embedded tweets from twits. 

 

Is there a joke here 

Web Page Blocked

that I am missing? 

No one hates Peterman.  Heck 95% have no idea who he is (quick name the rookie qb the Giants selected 2 rounds ahead of Peterman)......  

 

What we do HATE is every thread and post explaining how much better he is and was the answer to the Bills offense.

 

We also hate the fact that he started vs. LAC and that the Bill braintrust thought he gave the Bills the best chance to win, which was pure bs and threw away a crucial game. 

[teef]

nitpicking one play to make a point. seems appropriate.  as others have mentioned, if taylor hadn't been stanking up the joint, it would never have come to this.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Been saying the same thing about him since preseason based on his play in college and now in nfl action.  He's a marginal talent at this level. 

I have never claimed that Peterman is a franchise qb. He was taken in the fifth round for a reason. Just because you have never liked him as a player that doesn't justify this tiresome crusade against him. The rookie was inserted into the starting lineup because the starting qb struggled and the offense was stuck. So the HC made a change to see if that would jolt the offense. It didn't work out. Yet your fanatical crusade continued while the season moved on. There are more than enough issues for you to fret over. This one is finished and relegated to the past. Get over it!

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, teef said:

nitpicking one play to make a point. seems appropriate.  as others have mentioned, if taylor hadn't been stanking up the joint, it would never have come to this.

Do we need to show the 5 Ints and fumble too to make you happy?

 

Actually there is a 16 page thread going on and on about a 15 yard completion for g#ds sake.......

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, teef said:

nitpicking one play to make a point. seems appropriate.  as others have mentioned, if taylor hadn't been stanking up the joint, it would never have come to this.

You are astute! You are asking the right question and focusing on the real issue.  Why did it come to starting a rookie? 

[teef]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Do we need to show the 5 Ints and fumble too to make you happy?

 

Actually there is a 16 page thread going on and on about a 15 yard completion for g#ds sake.......

i'm not defending peterman at all.  he was bad in his debut.  i know that.  none of that excuses taylor from his poor play.  you consistently look for excuses as to why "your guys" aren't doing well.  the reality is that if the entrenched starter, (taylor) had been playing at even an average level, peterman would not have been put in.  this is coming from someone who likes taylor too.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

21 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Brothers in disagreement. 

 

The Peterman experiment didn't work out. Too many people are trying to exaggerate its importance by making it seem as if it was a catastrophe that sabotage the season. It simply wasn't. 

Well, best played games .....  it did however turn out to be a major catastrophe to some.  

The plan was to find better or try to motivate this team into playing lights out on Defense and have an offense that one day might flow fluidly.     

22 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No one hates Peterman.  Heck 95% have no idea who he is (quick name the rookie qb the Giants selected 2 rounds ahead of Peterman)......  

 

What we do HATE is every thread and post explaining how much better he is and was the answer to the Bills offense.

 

We also hate the fact that he started vs. LAC and that the Bill braintrust thought he gave the Bills the best chance to win, which was pure bs and threw away a crucial game. 

Ask 26CornerBlitz about Nate.   Say that you think he's got talent and potential.   You can get back to me on the outcome.  

 

 

How much better than whom?   Nate to TT or TT to Nate?   You Taylor Fans are missing the 10000 pound elephant in the room.  

 

Taylor got benched because McD wanted to see more production from him.   Does Taylor step up and become the Great QB that some his fans claim him to be?  

 

We all hope so. 

[Happy]

10 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Why did it come to starting a rookie? 

Because the offensive philosophy and blocking scheme is completely wrong for the personnel we have.  And somewhere between Dennison and McDermott the idea of starting Peterman was conceived to see if he could better run the offense that Dennison can't adequately call plays for, and IMO, does not fully grasp even though he's been immersed in it for years.

[CodeMonkey]

1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What does TT have to do with this play where Peterman had a totally clean pocket despite your claim to the contrary?  This play should have exemplified his purported strength as an accurate pocket passer. 

One pass huh.  OK

[JohnC]

10 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

Because the offensive philosophy and blocking scheme is completely wrong for the personnel we have.  And somewhere between Dennison and McDermott the idea of starting Peterman was conceived to see if he could better run the offense that Dennison can't adequately call plays for, and IMO, does not fully grasp even though he's been immersed in it for years.

The heart of the matter is that there is a talent deficit on both sides of the ball. The Bills are rebuilding and the coaches are working with what they have. If you put things in perspective for the most part this is a hard working and earnest team. The Bills are either overachieving or in the vicinity where they should be. Why be so down with what has been accomplished. There is still much more to be done. 

[26CornerBlitz]

42 minutes ago, JohnC said:

I have never claimed that Peterman is a franchise qb. He was taken in the fifth round for a reason. Just because you have never liked him as a player that doesn't justify this tiresome crusade against him. The rookie was inserted into the starting lineup because the starting qb struggled and the offense was stuck. So the HC made a change to see if that would jolt the offense. It didn't work out. Yet your fanatical crusade continued while the season moved on. There are more than enough issues for you to fret over. This one is finished and relegated to the past. Get over it!

 

Crusade? Give me a break.  A crusade is when someone harps on only one particular issue and that I certainly do not do.  I'll continue to post about him wherever and whenever I decide to. Who are you to tell me?  No one told you to interject yourself into the fray. Now bug off!

Edited November 30, 2017 by 26CornerBlitz

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The heart of the matter is that there is a talent deficit on both sides of the ball. The Bills are rebuilding and the coaches are working with what they have. If you put things in perspective for the most part this is a hard working and earnest team. The Bills are either overachieving or in the vicinity where they should be. Why be so down with what has been accomplished. There is still much more to be done. 

Look I don't fully understand defenses or the nuances involved.  I am a football fan.

 

Offense though is easy to follow.  When I know 80% of the Bills playcalling in advance of the snap it is a problem.  

 

We see slow play calling and no urgency in the offense.  Movement is minimal, just told that Taylor in week 12 was finally allowed to audible, formations that are vanilla, bad first down calls, second half prevent offense, McCoy's #'s down and no chance to succeed......

 

This I place on the OC.

[Happy]

13 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The heart of the matter is that there is a talent deficit on both sides of the ball. The Bills are rebuilding and the coaches are working with what they have. If you put things in perspective for the most part this is a hard working and earnest team. The Bills are either overachieving or in the vicinity where they should be. Why be so down with what has been accomplished. There is still much more to be done. 

Oh, I totally agree that this is a team in transition that has worked hard and overachieved.  All the pieces are not in place yet and the team is not where McDermott wants it to be; he's said as much several times.

But I don't think the OC is adequately using what he has on offense; we largely have the same personnel as last year, with comparable receivers, and the offensive is vastly under-performing.

 

[reddogblitz]

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What does TT have to do with this play where Peterman had a totally clean pocket despite your claim to the contrary?  This play should have exemplified his purported strength as an accurate pocket passer. 

 

Except, he's not very accurate. He's borderline flat out inaccurate.

3 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

What does TT have to do with this play where Peterman had a totally clean pocket despite your claim to the contrary?  This play should have exemplified his purported strength as an accurate pocket passer. 

 

Except, he's not very accurate. He's borderline flat out inaccurate.

[Kelly the Dog]

14 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:

 

Explain this away.

 

Tyrod haters would have screamed for weeks that Clay was wide open on that play and Taylor missed him even though Peterman had already looked to the other side of the field. 

[BringBackOrton]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

Tyrod haters would have screamed for weeks that Clay was wide open on that play and Taylor missed him even though Peterman had already looked to the other side of the field. 

Of course they would've.  Peterman missed him too.

[Kelly the Dog]

Just now, jmc12290 said:

Of course they would've.  Peterman missed him too.

But he didn't. At all. The play was obviously designed to go right as coverage dictated. He even had the quick (weak) fake left because he was always going to throw right. There is no blame whatsoever on Peterman missing Clay on this play who only became open and looked well after Peterman was looking right. 

[SaviorPeterman]

I still think we are going to see NP play again this season as soon as the 2nd half in this weeks game if TT insists on playing the way he always does.

 

And as bad as his debut was people still need to consider it was his first NFL start, on the road against a team that now looks like one of the best in the NFL.

 

Also Casey Hayward (who picked off NP several times) is now graded out as the #1 DB in the entire NFL by PFF.

 

I still believe NP could be the answer but time will tell.

[BringBackOrton]

7 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

But he didn't. At all. The play was obviously designed to go right as coverage dictated. He even had the quick (weak) fake left because he was always going to throw right. There is no blame whatsoever on Peterman missing Clay on this play who only became open and looked well after Peterman was looking right. 

Oh, so now you know the play design?

 

When Peterman looked towards Clay, he sees the LB dropping in clear hook zone coverage with Clay running straight past him.  No DB is anywhere close to make a play on a led pass and the S was cheating towards the opposite side of the field.

 

In the NFL, sometimes players don't become "wide open" until the ball is thrown.  It was clear Clay was going to get WIDE OPEN when Peterman was looking at him, and thus, he missed him.

Edited November 30, 2017 by jmc12290

[teef]

how long has tyrod been in the league?  to compare peterman and tyrod is a bit off to me.  tyrod is definitely the better qb, (at this point, at least to me) but some are trying far too hard here.