The Frankish Reich Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Well, that was fun while it lasted. This is not a very talented team. McDermott got more our of a lot of marginal players than he had any right to expect, but it's time to start planning for the future. The roster is filled with: (A) useful players signed at free agent/market value contracts; (B) veterans signed a free agent market value who have contracts expiring at the end of the year; (C) useful players on rookie contracts who are about to get expensive; and (D) a very few young players still on their rookie contracts who should be expected to continue to provide value; (E) players we're stuck with who are not performing commensurate with their salaries; (F) everyone else - the replacement level vets. Correct me if I'm wrong, but here's what I see: A. The Useful Players Being Paid at Market Value Who are Under Contract for Next Year - Hyde - Poyer - Hughes - Hauschka - Groy (hasn't played; don't ask me why he hasn't; based on last year, I put him in this category) - McCoy (although it's hard to tell with this O line if he may have lost a step) - Tolbert (I didn't say good; I said useful at the price) - Ryan Davis (ditto) - Andre Holmes (ditto) B. Useful Veterans Playing for Market Value on Expiring Contracts - Kyle Williams (really, I can't think of anyone else in this category) C. Useful Players on Rookie Contracts Who Are About to Get More (Too?) Expensive - Matthews - Preston Brown -Gaines (a short list since all other 2014 draft picks not counting Seantrel, who fits nicely in Category (F) below, are gone) D. Players Still on Rookie Contract in 2018 - the "Excess Value" Contingent - Kelvin Benjamin (5th year option) - O'Leary (see the Tolbert/Davis/Holmes rule above) - Lawson (the champion edge setter I hear; no need to worry about the edge when opponents run straight up the middle!) - Adolphus (minimal value) - T. White (the big winner!) - Zay - Dawkins/Milano/Peterman/Vallejo (the "nothing to grade them on" list) E. The "Can't Dump 'Em/Overpaid List" (unless you dump 'em Dareus style) - Incognito (well worth it on his renegotiated deal the last couple years; next year it balloons to double at $6.325 million) - Glenn (worth it if he's on the field; he isn't) - Clay (not even worth it if he is on the field) - Lorax (I'll admit it: on the cusp between List A and this one) - Wood (I thought Groy outplayed him last year; why the brought him back at his age and after a serious injury at a high price is beyond me) - Ducasse (not really highly paid, but overpriced at any price) - Tyrod (because he takes home $16 million next year and will now be viewed as a backup only) - DiMarco (because when you bring in a blocking-only FB and your running game gets appreciably worse ...) F. The Replacement Level/You Might as Well Just Raid the Waiver Wire All Over Again list - everyone else So the keepers? Well, if you're starting about building a team up from the bottom with an eye toward contending in 2020, my list begins and ends with Tre'Davious White. Maybe Dawkins and Zay Jones; we'll see by the end of this season. If you're talking about staying somewhat competitive for next year, add Poyer-Hyde-McCoy. That's it. That's ... depressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 From that list P. Brown is probably gone. A bit slow for the "process" but not bad enough to get a cheap contract. If Tyrod stays there's no point in even trying to re-sign Matthews since 3 catches in a game automatically becomes your season high and I don't know why anyone would sign up for that. I don't have a lot of faith, but I'm hoping this front office realizes things like giving L. Alexander a new contract is absolutely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 To me, Groy isn't playing because he doesn't fit. Who knows though? All the linebacker need to go except for Milano. The secondary honestly is in the best shape, needs another corner and some depth, the dline needs two DTs but I think Hughes and Shaq are fine maybe add another to rotate. For the offense, new QB, a running mate for Mccoy, a couple new lineman and a speedy wideout. Offensive line probably will see the biggest changes on it, imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 12, 2017 Author Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: To me, Groy isn't playing because he doesn't fit. Who knows though? All the linebacker need to go except for Milano. The secondary honestly is in the best shape, needs another corner and some depth, the dline needs two DTs but I think Hughes and Shaq are fine maybe add another to rotate. For the offense, new QB, a running mate for Mccoy, a couple new lineman and a speedy wideout. Offensive line probably will see the biggest changes on it, imo Well, I don't disagree with you, but I would point out that you've just flagged the following needs: - 2 offensive linemen (and that might be assuming that Richie stays) - 1 CB - at least 3 LBs - 2 DTs - a new QB - a good second RB - a speedy WR Other than those needs (11 new/improved players!), everything is fine .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, The Frankish Reich said: Well, I don't disagree with you, but I would point out that you've just flagged the following needs: - 2 offensive linemen (and that might be assuming that Richie stays) - 1 CB - at least 3 LBs - 2 DTs - a new QB - a good second RB - a speedy WR Other than those needs (11 new/improved players!), everything is fine .... I know...we are rebuilding with a new regime. They have had success with old veterans that don't fit their scheme. It will take a few offseasons but they will repave this roster with their guys and it will be for the better. Can't fit a round player into a square coaching scheme. They've set themselves up to make a nice dent in that though this offseason with more cap space and a lot of draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) Here are your positions in need of upgrades. OB - Obvious RB - need legit depth (buh bye Tolbert) OG x 2 - Need one starter next year and then one to groom for the year after OT x 1 (maybe two depending on what they do with Glenn) DT x 2 Need two starters (kyle is a rotational player at this point if he even comes back) DE x 2 Need some speed here for the rotation OLB x 2 Need a Starting SLB and depth MLB x 1 This is iffy could win with Brown but could upgrade here too CB x 3 - need a starter (gaines health worries me) and depth So overall I might not have said it right but Starters needed in QB OG OT DTx2 OLB CB Depth at RB OG OT DE OLB MLB CB That a ton for a team in the middle of a 17 year rebuild LOL Edited November 12, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam727 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 At this point? Maybe Hyde, Clay, Gaines, Dawkins? Not sure I see anyone else on this roster worth building a team around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 The Bills front seven is pitiful and that is where they should invest draft picks and spend a decent amount of their 50+ million in cap space on in 2018. Plus, there are a lot of good LB's in the 2018 draft, so they should do well there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 This year's draft picks, Hyde, Poyer, Hauschka, yes Shady, and KB. That's all I've got after today's game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Here are your positions in need of upgrades. OB - Obvious RB - need legit depth (buh bye Tolbert) OG x 2 - Need one starter next year and then one to groom for the year after OT x 1 (maybe two depending on what they do with Glenn) DT x 2 Need two starters (kyle is a rotational player at this point if he even comes back) DE x 2 Need some speed here for the rotation OLB x 2 Need a Starting SLB and depth MLB x 1 This is iffy could win with Brown but could upgrade here too CB x 3 - need a starter (gaines health worries me) and depth So overall I might not have said it right but Starters needed in QB OG OT DTx2 OLB CB Depth at RB OG OT DE OLB MLB CB That a ton for a team in the middle of a 17 year rebuild LOL Well for this regime it's the start of a new rebuild. I trust this front office to get the right guys in the building. It'll take a while but we have to stop hitting reset so fast. This seems like a good head coach and GM combo, let's let it play out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said: Well for this regime it's the start of a new rebuild. I trust this front office to get the right guys in the building. It'll take a while but we have to stop hitting reset so fast. This seems like a good head coach and GM combo, let's let it play out Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no. At this moment they look alot more like a DJ 2.0 staff than one that can get it right Edited November 12, 2017 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no. I think every move they've made so far has benefitted the long term so far. They haven't made mistakes, the team has played hard for the most part despite the last two games with a minimally talented roster. They got rid of guys that didn't fit their scheme. They are playing the long term game. They just don't care if we don't win now, they are rebuilding and this offseason they've set themselves up to reshape the roster and bring in "their guys". If they hit on the players, this ship will be turn around with a little patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Depends do they self scout in the offseason and admit their flaws and correct them or no. At this moment they look alot more like a DJ 2.0 staff than one that can get it right Well, we dont know yet because theyve never HAD an off-season of their own. I would bet they self scout if the fluff pieces are true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: I think every move they've made so far has benefitted the long term so far. They haven't made mistakes, the team has played hard for the most part despite the last two games with a minimally talented roster. They got rid of guys that didn't fit their scheme. They are playing the long term game. They just don't care if we don't win now, they are rebuilding and this offseason they've set themselves up to reshape the roster and bring in "their guys". If they hit on the players, this ship will be turn around with a little patience Then do it completely. Bench the QB and move on. Cut Holmes Ducasse Davis and get the pick. That is not true they are absolutely trying to break the drought. Spin it how you want. KB trade soldifies they want and are actively trying to win NOW 1 minute ago, BillsEnthusiast said: Well, we dont know yet because theyve never HAD an off-season of their own. I would bet they self scout if the fluff pieces are true. What was this Offseason. Dont even MENTION Whaley it was all McD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: Then do it completely. Bench the QB and move on. Cut Holmes Ducasse Davis and get the pick. That is not true they are absolutely trying to break the drought. Spin it how you want. KB trade soldifies they want and are actively trying to win NOW Yeah, they said they would try to play hard...doesn't mean there isn't a rebuild going on. They are just trying to be somewhat successful throughout instead of sucking like the browns. I think if the season starts to slip they will cut those players and bench the QB but right now we are 5-4 and still in the hunt. If we continue to play horribly, they will make a move. Now might be too early to give up. In a week or two though, if we keep getting blown out, you bet things will be changing. It's all about timing I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 6 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Yeah, they said they would try to play hard...doesn't mean there isn't a rebuild going on. They are just trying to be somewhat successful throughout instead of sucking like the browns. I think if the season starts to slip they will cut those players and bench the QB but right now we are 5-4 and still in the hunt. If we continue to play horribly, they will make a move. Now might be too early to give up. In a week or two though, if we keep getting blown out, you bet things will be changing. It's all about timing I think. I think it comes down to how much rebuild talk the fans what to hear. How is McVey doing in his first year? rebuilding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweats Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 ......fire everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Poyer has looked entirely different since the injury, I'd be careful listing him as a keeper. He has looked hesitant/slow in the run and pass game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: I think it comes down to how much rebuild talk the fans what to hear. How is McVey doing in his first year? rebuilding? His schemes matched his players better and he has a ton of young talent at all positions on that team. As for the fans, if they keep pushing guys out of town before they've been given a chance this team will never win. We don't have the players that match the schemes. Until we match them up, we will constantly have players that don't fit and we will continue to fall right back into mediocrity. It's just been one big cycle. I think this regime is the right regime. If we have any patience left, these are the guys to trust and use it on. Their rookies have played well in the scheme so far. These old guys that they inherited, aren't looking so great. Let them bring of their guys...hoping the fans see it through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, Commonsense said: Poyer has looked entirely different since the injury, I'd be careful listing him as a keeper. He has looked hesitant/slow in the run and pass game. I dont think his knee is healthy actually. The issue I see alot on this defense is they lived off turnovers so their tackling is suffering the last couple weeks going for the strip and I even saw Poyer try and guess and jump a crosser before thrown, brees just held and waited for him to clear the jumped route. They are trying to much to create the TO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 The chick who pours Vodka in the Kelly club. That's all I got. Wait, I'll go with Hausch money too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: His schemes matched his players better and he has a ton of young talent at all positions on that team. As for the fans, if they keep pushing guys out of town before they've been given a chance this team will never win. We don't have the players that match the schemes. Until we match them up, we will constantly have players that don't fit and we will continue to fall right back into mediocrity. It's just been one big cycle. I think this regime is the right regime. If we have any patience left, these are the guys to trust and use it on. Their rookies have played well in the scheme so far. These old guys that they inherited, aren't looking so great. Let them bring of their guys...hoping the fans see it through But I thought new coaches have to run talent out of town to fit their scheme, culture and DNA. Fact is right now this FO and coaching staff made this bed, they own it so they should get heat for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloFan68 Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I would try to trade Tyrod for a 5th or 6th round draft pick all day long (come on Denver, you know you want him), otherwise he would just be a high paid back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 Just now, BuffaloFan68 said: I would try to trade Tyrod for a 5th or 6th round draft pick all day long (come on Denver, you know you want him), otherwise he would just be a high paid back-up. Just do not pick up his option on day three and boom he is a UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 I am my brother's keeper.. ...but if he was on this D, I would consider letting him go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 12, 2017 Share Posted November 12, 2017 You can blame the Talent on the roster as much as you want, some of that Blame has to go to McDermott and Beane they built this Roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: But I thought new coaches have to run talent out of town to fit their scheme, culture and DNA. Fact is right now this FO and coaching staff made this bed, they own it so they should get heat for it. No they hired a guy that fit the players, we didn't. Pegula chose a guy who doesn't fit the players so instead of the coaching staff changing how they do things, they will change the roster to fit the coaches. It takes longer but usually means longer term success. The Rams are a special case because they have a lot of young guys. How is that the front offices and coaching staffs fault? Pegula chose his guys. Let them have a chance and stop looking at individual players and transactions and look at the bigger picture of what they are trying to do. It will take some time. 2 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: You can blame the Talent on the roster as much as you want, some of that Blame has to go to McDermott and Beane they built this Roster. The roster isn't completely build yet? Does he have all the linebackers that he wants and are quintessential to his defenses success? No, because he just got there. Have some patience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Buffalo30 said: No they hired a guy that fit the players, we didn't. Pegula chose a guy who doesn't fit the players so instead of the coaching staff changing how they do things, they will change the roster to fit the coaches. It takes longer but usually means longer term success. The Rams are a special case because they have a lot of young guys. How is that the front offices and coaching staffs fault? Pegula chose his guys. Let them have a chance and stop looking at individual players and transactions and look at the bigger picture of what they are trying to do. It will take some time. So you really DONT want an honest assessment. Because if you did McD and Beane share alot of blame for this roster THEY BUILT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: So you really DONT want an honest assessment. Because if you did McD and Beane share alot of blame for this roster THEY BUILT It's been 1 season man...they inherited most of the roster...they haven't had the chance to build nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: It's been 1 season man...they inherited most of the roster...they haven't had the chance to build nothing They did not. Look at the defense. so again you really dont want an HONEST assessment you want people agreeing that they need time to rebuild in their vision even if they built this years Roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: They did not. Look at the defense. so again you really dont want an HONEST assessment you want people agreeing that they need time to rebuild in their vision even if they built this years Roster. It's not easy to rebuild in one year man. They have a ton of draft picks this year and cap space to replace guys that didn't fit. They came in and not a lot matched up. It will take some time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 but it doesnt always have too. See JAX and LA right now. but again lets makes excuses instead of accountability. Bills fans the classic enablers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 32 minutes ago, Buffalo30 said: Well for this regime it's the start of a new rebuild. I trust this front office to get the right guys in the building. It'll take a while but we have to stop hitting reset so fast. This seems like a good head coach and GM combo, let's let it play out I agree. It's not going to be an immediate turnaround, but they're rebuilding the right way. The drought will reach 19 years before it ends. This year, they replaced out half the team. Next year, they'll replace the other half. Year 3, they'll have their team built and ready to contend. Give them a fair chance, don't be so quick to panic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, BmarvB said: I agree. It's not going to be an immediate turnaround, but they're rebuilding the right way. The drought will reach 19 years before it ends. This year, they replaced out half the team. Next year, they'll replace the other half. Year 3, they'll have their team built and ready to contend. Give them a fair chance, don't be so quick to panic. I'm not sure we replaced half of the roster but yes, give it time. I think it'll be three years to get what they want on the field. But if they hit on a lot this upcoming draft...they can shorten the rebuilding timeline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, Buffalo30 said: I'm not sure we replaced half of the roster but yes, give it time. I think it'll be three years to get what they want on the field. But if they hit on a lot this upcoming draft...they can shorten the rebuilding timeline Yeah, there's a lot riding on what they get from all those picks. They need some hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Here is it. Year 1 - some new coach with some new buzzword FANS - YES GONNA TAKE TIME GOT THE RIGHT GUY Year 2 - another new buzzword FANS - YES LOOK AT THE TALENT ON THE ROSTER Year 3 - Another new buzzword FANS - FIRE THIS GUY and clean house really rebuild The cycle of life as a Bills fan, Bills sell hope better than any team in the league and us fans just slop it up meanwhile 17 years and counting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roundybout Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 33 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Then do it completely. Bench the QB and move on. Cut Holmes Ducasse Davis and get the pick. That is not true they are absolutely trying to break the drought. Spin it how you want. KB trade soldifies they want and are actively trying to win NOW What was this Offseason. Dont even MENTION Whaley it was all McD In that case we should have hope because this draft was Damn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, BillsEnthusiast said: In that case we should have hope because this draft was Damn good. Really was it??? I see one really solid player out of it at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 52 minutes ago, Adam727 said: At this point? Maybe Hyde, Clay, Gaines, Dawkins? Not sure I see anyone else on this roster worth building a team around. T White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Now Moment Posted November 13, 2017 Share Posted November 13, 2017 Just now, MAJBobby said: Here is it. Year 1 - some new coach with some new buzzword FANS - YES GONNA TAKE TIME GOT THE RIGHT GUY Year 2 - another new buzzword FANS - YES LOOK AT THE TALENT ON THE ROSTER Year 3 - Another new buzzword FANS - FIRE THIS GUY and clean house really rebuild The cycle of life as a Bills fan, Bills sell hope better than any team in the league and us fans just slop it up meanwhile 17 years and counting But you want to take the Cleveland approach which fired a coach every year?? That's your blueprint...Cleveland changed that too by giving Hue Jackson a chance. They may not be winning games but they finally have some talent on that team and have been a little competitive. They were horrid in terms of talent when he took over. With another year or more likely two they will have a lot of young talent on that team. I like the long term approach. So much overturn hurts players. I feel bad for what Kyle Williams went through in his career here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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