Tyrod is tier 2 of NFL QBs: Ability, but not Inevitablity

[Heavy Kevi]

As much as Tyrod frustrates me sometimes, I will admit I often think we should take the "Alex Smith" approach with him and let him start for years hoping he puts it all together at some point.

 

And sometimes the anemic 3 and outs make me want to smash something. 

 

I guess I'm a bit bipolar about Tyrod.

[transplantbillsfan]

17 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think there needs to be at least six tiers. Each has anywhere from 3-9 players. 

 

Elite

Franchise

Sometimes or No Longer Franchise

You Can Win With But Average

Too Early to Tell

Journeyman

 

These are reactionary tiers.

 

They are tiers that exist solely "in the moment" as safe picks.

 

Those 3 tiers are what those NFL QBs ultimately are rather than how we judge them.

 

Like with Goff, he'd be in your "too early to tell" category, but the reality is that he just is whatever he is.

 

Rich Gannon was always a talented QB, but he wasn't always throwing to Jerry Rice and Tim Brown. Suddenly, he looked like a Franchise QB.

 

That's why he's tier 2.

[Kelly the Dog]

4 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

These are reactionary tiers.

 

They are tiers that exist solely "in the moment" as safe picks.

 

Those 3 tiers are what those NFL QBs ultimately are rather than how we judge them.

 

Like with Goff, he'd be in your "too early to tell" category, but the reality is that he just is whatever he is.

 

Rich Gannon was always a talented QB, but he wasn't always throwing to Jerry Rice and Tim Brown. Suddenly, he looked like a Franchise QB.

 

That's why he's tier 2.

I just don't see how you can lump clearly inferior players with clearly superior ones into such a huge category. Guys like Goff, right now, you don't know what you have. You don't know what you have with Marriota or Winston. Wentz looks like a franchise guy now but so did Nick Foles on the same team in basically the same circumstance. Guys like Eli were once franchise but are complete also rans now.

[Thurman#1]

27 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I just don't see how you can lump clearly inferior players with clearly superior ones into such a huge category. Guys like Goff, right now, you don't know what you have. You don't know what you have with Marriota or Winston. Wentz looks like a franchise guy now but so did Nick Foles on the same team in basically the same circumstance. Guys like Eli were once franchise but are complete also rans now.

 

 

Yeah, it wouldn't make sense. But if you understand that it's his specific purpose to find a way, no matter how bizarre, to fit Tyrod in the same category as guys like Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys it all makes sense. 

 

He's not trying put guys in sensible categories. He's trying to find categories that will allow him to spin things so Tyrod gets put in with franchise guys.

[Thurman#1]

48 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I thought it was pretty obvious I meant vast majority of starting QBs in the NFL, but since you're including all those guys with any stats whatsoever, why didn't you include all the trick plays where a non QB threw the ball, too?

 

 

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs."

 

 

 

So, there are at least 18 guys better than Taylor right now?

 

Who?

 

 

Holy cow. What an insanely difficult question. 18 guys better than Tyrod? Wow, this might take me nearly three seconds of thought and a minute of typing to answer. 

 

1. Tom Brady

2. Russell Wilson

3 Carson Wentz

4. Drew Brees

5. Matt Ryan 

6. Kirk Cousins 

7. Ben Roethlisberger

8. Jared Goff

9. Philip Rivers

10. Cam Newton

11. Derek Carr

12. Jameis Winston

13. Matthew Stafford

14. Andrew Luck

15. Dak Prescott

16. Andy Dalton

17. Deshaun Watson

18. Aaron Rodgers

 

Had to cut Bridgewater/Stafford to get it down to 18 and there were a couple of others if I hadn't lost interest. There isn't a GM in the league who has one of these guys on his roster who wouldn't laugh in the face of someone trying to trade Tyrod Taylor for him. 

 

But it was more difficult than I thought. Took me nearly 30 seconds longer than I thought to type the list.

 

 

 

 

[KD in CA]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

My man.... another Tyrod thread from you? 

 

Reminds me of new poster tiers

 

Tier 1 posters:  less than 2 Tyrod threads per year

Tier 2 :  2-5 Tyrod threads per year

Tier 3:  6+ Tyrod threads per year

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs."

 

 

 

 

 

Funny, you seem to be the only guy who assumed I meant every QB who's taken even a single snap in the history of the NFL.

 

Anyway, disregarding your unnecessarily (but expected) snarky response to a pretty straightforward correction, I'm glad we cleared up something everyone else seemed to understand except you.

 

 

 

PS: This is an actual question- Are you really a Bills fan, or do you just like to argue so you latched onto one of the most consistent losers in sports so you could argue the "glass is half empty" position incessantly because, well, that's just who you are?  

[transplantbillsfan]

20 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs."

 

 

 

 

Holy cow. What an insanely difficult question. 18 guys better than Tyrod? Wow, this might take me nearly three seconds of thought and a minute of typing to answer. 

 

1. Tom Brady

2. Russell Wilson

3 Carson Wentz

4. Drew Brees

5. Matt Ryan 

6. Kirk Cousins 

7. Ben Roethlisberger

8. Jared Goff

9. Philip Rivers

10. Cam Newton

11. Derek Carr

12. Jameis Winston

13. Matthew Stafford

14. Andrew Luck

15. Dak Prescott

16. Andy Dalton

17. Deshaun Watson

18. Aaron Rodgers

 

Had to cut Bridgewater/Stafford to get it down to 18 and there were a couple of others if I hadn't lost interest. There isn't a GM in the league who has one of these guys on his roster who wouldn't laugh in the face of someone trying to trade Tyrod Taylor for him. 

 

But it was more difficult than I thought. Took me nearly 30 seconds longer than I thought to type the list.

 

 

 

 

 

First of all, much like that standard deviation article from a month or two ago, I think you're really missing the point of the tiers themselves.

 

For example:

 

-Prescott might be losing Elliot for 6 games. I'm surprised it  hasn't already happened, but when it does, do you want to bet that Prescott looks worse as a QB? Oh, plus he's had the best OL in the NFL for 2 years.

 

-Carr. See rookie year followed by drafting of Cooper, acquisition of OL and building up what would be one of the best OLs in the NFL and voila!!!

 

-We've seen Andy Dalton without AJ Green and Tyler Eifert. Certainly nothing special.

 

-We saw Goff last year without McVay and Woods and Watkins and Cooper Kupp. He sucked.

 

-Kirk Cousins has worked under some of the more brilliant offensive minds in the NFL since he's started in McVay and last names Gruden and Shanahan.

 

-Jameis Winston?!?! pfffft!!! Taylor's better than him right now for sure. Dude's got all the weapons he could ever ask for and a HC who was an OC who practically turned Matthew Stafford into an MVP and you legitimately think he's better than Taylor? I think you undervalue how much coaches and GMs want to protect the football.

 

-I guess you're just a volume guy if you're putting Rivers up there still, too. Not anymore.

 

 

That's just a handful I felt like going through right now, might do more tomorrow.

 

But yep, Taylor's like all those guys I just mentioned: right system and/or play caller and/or weapons and/or running game and/or OL, etc. and then you get a Franchise QB

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

First of all, much like that standard deviation article from a month or two ago, I think you're really missing the point of the tiers themselves.

 

For example:

 

-Prescott might be losing Elliot for 6 games. I'm surprised it  hasn't already happened, but when it does, do you want to bet that Prescott looks worse as a QB? Oh, plus he's had the best OL in the NFL for 2 years.

 

-Carr. See rookie year followed by drafting of Cooper, acquisition of OL and building up what would be one of the best OLs in the NFL and voila!!!

 

-We've seen Andy Dalton without AJ Green and Tyler Eifert. Certainly nothing special.

 

-We saw Goff last year without McVay and Woods and Watkins and Cooper Kupp. He sucked.

 

-Kirk Cousins has worked under some of the more brilliant offensive minds in the NFL since he's started in McVay and last names Gruden and Shanahan.

 

-Jameis Winston?!?! pfffft!!! Taylor's better than him right now for sure. Dude's got all the weapons he could ever ask for and a HC who was an OC who practically turned Matthew Stafford into an MVP and you legitimately think he's better than Taylor? I think you undervalue how much coaches and GMs want to protect the football.

 

-I guess you're just a volume guy if you're putting Rivers up there still, too. Not anymore.

 

 

That's just a handful I felt like going through right now, might do more tomorrow.

 

But yep, Taylor's like all those guys I just mentioned: right system and/or play caller and/or weapons and/or running game and/or OL, etc. and then you get a Franchise QB

 

 

 

Gee, what a surprise! Transplant's got a justification for every guy. Who'd have guessed that, except, you know, anyone who knows about his desperate crush on Tyrod and obsession with spinning things to make him look better.

 

He thinks I missed his point, but that would be pretty hard ... his point is a bunch of pathetic justifications tied together by a guy incapable of seeing how the world looks to people without man-crushes on Tyrod.

 

Look at the assumption he makes for Goff. He's incapable of understanding that rookie QBs often improve a whole ton before their second year and that rookie QBs often make a ton of mistakes. Can't be improvement in a young guy!!! No, no, it has to be all due to his surroundings!!! That's indeed how the world looks to a man desperate to spin Tyrod up and anyone who's not Tyrod down.

 

 

 

I say Rivers, Cousins, Prescott and the rest are better than Tyrod. And he's arguing. Good grief.

 

Again, you wouldn't find a GM to trade Tyrod for any of those guys, you just wouldn't.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Thurman#1

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

3 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Again, you wouldn't find a GM to trade Tyrod for any of those guys, you just wouldn't.

Even in the NFL 

 

You can't fix Stupid.  

 

Denver (per rumors) 

[Iron Maiden]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'm sure it was obvious to anyone with ESP and an interest in reading your mind. For the rest of us, "QBs" does not equal "starting QBs."

 

 

 

 

Holy cow. What an insanely difficult question. 18 guys better than Tyrod? Wow, this might take me nearly three seconds of thought and a minute of typing to answer. 

 

1. Tom Brady

2. Russell Wilson

3 Carson Wentz

4. Drew Brees

5. Matt Ryan 

6. Kirk Cousins 

7. Ben Roethlisberger

8. Jared Goff

9. Philip Rivers

10. Cam Newton

11. Derek Carr

12. Jameis Winston

13. Matthew Stafford

14. Andrew Luck

15. Dak Prescott

16. Andy Dalton

17. Deshaun Watson

18. Aaron Rodgers

 

Had to cut Bridgewater/Stafford to get it down to 18 and there were a couple of others if I hadn't lost interest. There isn't a GM in the league who has one of these guys on his roster who wouldn't laugh in the face of someone trying to trade Tyrod Taylor for him. 

 

But it was more difficult than I thought. Took me nearly 30 seconds longer than I thought to type the list.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.......who do you want leading your offense...to be a general out there...if all NFL teams had a shot at any QB out there, TT would probably be picked at around 20-25.....

[NoSaint]

6 hours ago, KD in CA said:

 

Reminds me of new poster tiers

 

Tier 1 posters:  less than 2 Tyrod threads per year

Tier 2 :  2-5 Tyrod threads per year

Tier 3:  6+ Tyrod threads per year

But will he get over 5 pages in responses AND get the most likes in the thread?

 

go on record now!

[Billsfan1972]

I've said it before and will reiterate......  TT with a decent OC, would be a very serviceable QB.  The FO did all they could to torpedo him and the offense this year.  However a funny thing happened (prior to the Jets game) and the Bills were winning.  They had two what looked like marquee wins against teams that now appear to be less then their press clippings (Denver & Atlanta), and solid wins vs. NYJ & Oakland and actually a 4th Q win vs Tampa.  They also had a ridiculous turnover differential with every bounce & tip going their way.  And two tight losses.

 

I feel bad for TT as with any decent coaching and last years weapons, this team could really be good, and maybe adding Benjamin they will be, but it will come down to the coaching and playcalling.

 

Again I've watched Goff, and he is not that good.  He has had a great OC and talent around him.

 

Wentz too has played really well, but if he was a Bill I'd wouldn't be so sure.

 

Nice that the Bills decided to get help for the Offense halfway through the season, but my question is.......  What took them so long?

 

 

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

Taylor is somewhere between the 15th to 20th best QB in the NFL.

 

A solid stop-gap.

 

Someday we'll land our Deshaun Watson or Dak Prescott. Until then, Taylor is okay.

[Royale with Cheese]

7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think there needs to be at least six tiers. Each has anywhere from 3-9 players. 

 

Elite

Franchise

Sometimes or No Longer Franchise

You Can Win With But Average

Too Early to Tell

Journeyman

 

This is exactly what I was thinking too.

 

I would put Taylor in between tier 3 and 4....so I guess 3.5?

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

28 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is exactly what I was thinking too.

 

I would put Taylor in between tier 3 and 4....so I guess 3.5?

 

29 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

8 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

I think there needs to be at least six tiers. Each has anywhere from 3-9 players. 

 

Elite

Franchise

Sometimes or No Longer Franchise

You Can Win With But Average

Too Early to Tell

Journeyman

I agree with both. 
I wanted to post similar yesterday but I decided to not stir the pot 

You Can Win With But Average  aka You Can Win With But they can't carry the team alone. 

[row_33]

Fair enough, he's Tier 2, but his attitude and leadership demonstrated is the lower level of Tier 3

 

whether that's due to inability (a bit) or coaching not bothering to play to his strengths (a bigger factor) is up for grabs

 

and some have said that looking like you have a clue what you are doing is 75% of being an NFL QB.

 

 

[yungmack]

9 hours ago, Fadingpain said:

Don't like the breakdown. 

 

You need another tier between the Tier 1 "ultra elites" and the Tier 2 "most guys in the league".

 

There is another tier there of very good QBs who are categorically better than someone like Tyrod, but who are not the ultra elite Tier 1 guys either. 

 

Your way puts Tyrod in with Eli Manning and Flacco.  No way is Tyrod in the same tier, even if Flacco has looked pretty darned bad this year.  

 

Remember, Tyrod is the guy who would have sat on the bench for 500 years in Baltimore, because he is not Joe Flacco.

 

 

And if Bledsoe hadn't been injured, how long would Brady have sat on the bench?

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, yungmack said:

And if Bledsoe hadn't been injured, how long would Brady have sat on the bench?

 

Probably not long.  Bledsoe struggled the previous year and struggled early on the next year....then he got crushed by Lewis.

They were 5-13 with Belicheck before Brady took over.

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Gee, what a surprise! Transplant's got a justification for every guy. Who'd have guessed that, except, you know, anyone who knows about his desperate crush on Tyrod and obsession with spinning things to make him look better.

 

He thinks I missed his point, but that would be pretty hard ... his point is a bunch of pathetic justifications tied together by a guy incapable of seeing how the world looks to people without man-crushes on Tyrod.

 

Look at the assumption he makes for Goff. He's incapable of understanding that rookie QBs often improve a whole ton before their second year and that rookie QBs often make a ton of mistakes. Can't be improvement in a young guy!!! No, no, it has to be all due to his surroundings!!! That's indeed how the world looks to a man desperate to spin Tyrod up and anyone who's not Tyrod down.

 

 

 

I say Rivers, Cousins, Prescott and the rest are better than Tyrod. And he's arguing. Good grief.

 

Again, you wouldn't find a GM to trade Tyrod for any of those guys, you just wouldn't.

 

 

 

I'm sorry, do you not expect that people would ever disagree with you?

 

Are you coming on a discussion board to discuss or do you have some fantasy that you're actually standing on a soapbox in the middle of a park and that everyone must listen to you and when people disagree, your autopilot is to be incredibly arrogant and snarky?

 

I still don't think think you got the gist of the thread. I don't think that Taylor is better than all those guys. I think Taylor has the ability to be as good as or as successful as all of the tier 2 guys. He'll never touch tier one.