Tyrod is tier 2 of NFL QBs: Ability, but not Inevitablity

[transplantbillsfan]

All QBs need some circumstances, but for a small minute handful of QBs there was an inevitability that they'd be Franchise QBs purely based on their physical ability/ mental ability/ intangibles.

 

Tier 1 QBs are the Elite guys (Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are the only 3 absolutes up there with Big Ben probably creeping in, too) who can largely "carry a team," even though with Football being the ultimate team sport, these guys still needed a couple things to fall into place.  Brady would never have been Brady without the Hoodie... same for Brees & Payton.  I actually think Rodgers might be a slight step above those guys because I just think Rodgers and McCarthy have never jibed as well as the rest, but Rodgers had the circumstance of learning from one of the best in the game on the bench for 4 years and not feeling any pressure.  These guys are the generational, rare 1st ballot HOFers that Buffalo was so lucky to have once in Jim Kelly.  But they're rare.  Incredibly rare.  Previous to the 3 (maybe 4...?) guys above we've had maybe 2 other QBs we've seen in that category playing in the NFL since 2000 in Peyton Manning and Brett Favre. 

 

Tier 3 QBs are the guys who are often labelled as "journeymen," "fringe starters," or even "bridge QBs."  These are the guys defined by Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer over the span of their careers.  These are guys you want as your backup, but will suffer through them as your starter because they might pleasantly surprise you on occasion.

 

Tier 2 QBs are the vast majority of guys in the NFL and these are the guys who have the ability/capability to be/of being a Franchise QB, but unlike the tier 1 guys, it's not inevitable, or close to it the way those guys are.

 

This is where Tyrod Taylor sits.

 

There are plenty of guys in this category, some of them are probably the higher end of tier 2 like Ryan, Goff, and Wentz.  Some of them might be more in the middle like Cousins, Prescott, and Rivers. And others are on the lower end like Dalton, Flacco and Tannehill.  But they're all there in tier 2. 

 

The last 2 years for both Matt Ryan and Jared Goff exemplify this tier.  They require the right circumstances and, unlike the tier 1 guys, they need a combination of several of these circumstances to be what one might consider a "Franchise QB."  These circumstances typically are a combination of weapons in the passing game, a running game, offensive system, offensive play caller, and/or defense. 

 

Matt Ryan has always had the weapons over the span of his career (as a rookie he had an explosive running game with Michael Turner and a solid WR corps with one of the league's best WRs at the time in Roddy White and throughout his career he's had Tony Gonzales and Julio Jones and Davonte Freeman and so on) and he's also always had pretty good Offensive Coordinators/playcallers (Mike Mularkey, Dirk Koetter, Kyle Shanahan). Last year Matt Ryan had an MVP season and I remember all the "HE'S ELITE!!!" conversation.  Not to pat myself on the back too much, but I predicted that Ryan would take a pretty significant step back this season because I believed Shanahan was largely responsible for Ryan's season.  And look what's happened?  Ryan still looks like a starter but has come dropping out of any of the "Elite" dialogue anyone was having... it's pretty funny because I bet all those talking heads who were saying that (and there were A LOT!!!) just feel like idiots now.  It's not that Ryan is a bad QB.  He's not, he's good.  He's just not great the way those tier 1 guys are.  He still has good weapons there, so he's still gonna be good enough.

 

Jared Goff is like the exact opposite example of this.  Yeah, I know he was just a rookie last year, but he absolutely SUCKED last year.  Like he just looked really bad and the Rams looked foolish.  And keep in mind that this was with one of the better defenses in the league and also with one of the more talented RBs in the league (whose production also, ironically was terrible... consistent with this whole "OC help needed" theme, hmmm? 0:)) Then what happens?  The team hires a brilliant young offensive mind as a head coach and goes out and acquires talent at the WR position, much to Buffalo's chagrin.  And voila!!!  Do you guys honestly think Goff just magically became a different guy or is he seriously the beneficiary of a brilliant young offensive play caller and newly acquired (or differently utilized) Elite talent?  Yeah, I think it's the latter.

 

Taylor's in this tier, too.  These guys aren't good enough to overcome circumstances, and so far in his career, there have been more circumstances working against Taylor than a lot of the other guys in this tier, which might be the reason we move on from him after this year or, more likely, after next year.  But if some circumstances can start shaping up more in Taylor's favor, he's a guy who CAN be our Franchise QB.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gray Beard]

I like this breakdown.

Now where do you put Eli? I've never thought of him as elite, but he has won the Superbowl.  An interesting contradiction.

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

All QBs need some circumstances, but for a small minute handful of QBs there was an inevitability that they'd be Franchise QBs purely based on their physical ability/ mental ability/ intangibles.

 

Tier 1 QBs are the Elite guys (Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are the only 3 absolutes up there with Big Ben probably creeping in, too) who can largely "carry a team," even though with Football being the ultimate team sport, these guys still needed a couple things to fall into place.  Brady would never have been Brady without the Hoodie... same for Brees & Payton.  I actually think Rodgers might be a slight step above those guys because I just think Rodgers and McCarthy have never jibed as well as the rest, but Rodgers had the circumstance of learning from one of the best in the game on the bench for 4 years and not feeling any pressure.  These guys are the generational, rare 1st ballot HOFers that Buffalo was so lucky to have once in Jim Kelly.  But they're rare.  Incredibly rare.  Previous to the 3 (maybe 4...?) guys above we've had maybe 2 other QBs we've seen in that category playing in the NFL since 2000 in Peyton Manning and Brett Favre. 

 

Tier 3 QBs are the guys who are often labelled as "journeymen," "fringe starters," or even "bridge QBs."  These are the guys defined by Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer over the span of their careers.  These are guys you want as your backup, but will suffer through them as your starter because they might pleasantly surprise you on occasion.

 

Tier 2 QBs are the vast majority of guys in the NFL and these are the guys who have the ability/capability to be/of being a Franchise QB, but unlike the tier 1 guys, it's not inevitable, or close to it the way those guys are.

 

This is where Tyrod Taylor sits.

 

There are plenty of guys in this category, some of them are probably the higher end of tier 2 like Ryan, Goff, and Wentz.  Some of them might be more in the middle like Cousins, Prescott, and Rivers. And others are on the lower end like Dalton, Flacco and Tannehill.  But they're all there in tier 2. 

 

The last 2 years for both Matt Ryan and Jared Goff exemplify this tier.  They require the right circumstances and, unlike the tier 1 guys, they need a combination of several of these circumstances to be what one might consider a "Franchise QB."  These circumstances typically are a combination of weapons in the passing game, a running game, offensive system, offensive play caller, and/or defense. 

 

Matt Ryan has always had the weapons over the span of his career (as a rookie he had an explosive running game with Michael Turner and a solid WR corps with one of the league's best WRs at the time in Roddy White and throughout his career he's had Tony Gonzales and Julio Jones and Davonte Freeman and so on) and he's also always had pretty good Offensive Coordinators/playcallers (Mike Mularkey, Dirk Koetter, Kyle Shanahan). Last year Matt Ryan had an MVP season and I remember all the "HE'S ELITE!!!" conversation.  Not to pat myself on the back too much, but I predicted that Ryan would take a pretty significant step back this season because I believed Shanahan was largely responsible for Ryan's season.  And look what's happened?  Ryan still looks like a starter but has come dropping out of any of the "Elite" dialogue anyone was having... it's pretty funny because I bet all those talking heads who were saying that (and there were A LOT!!!) just feel like idiots now.  It's not that Ryan is a bad QB.  He's not, he's good.  He's just not great the way those tier 1 guys are.  He still has good weapons there, so he's still gonna be good enough.

 

Jared Goff is like the exact opposite example of this.  Yeah, I know he was just a rookie last year, but he absolutely SUCKED last year.  Like he just looked really bad and the Rams looked foolish.  And keep in mind that this was with one of the better defenses in the league and also with one of the more talented RBs in the league (whose production also, ironically was terrible... consistent with this whole "OC help needed" theme, hmmm? 0:)) Then what happens?  The team hires a brilliant young offensive mind as a head coach and goes out and acquires talent at the WR position, much to Buffalo's chagrin.  And voila!!!  Do you guys honestly think Goff just magically became a different guy or is he seriously the beneficiary of a brilliant young offensive play caller and newly acquired (or differently utilized) Elite talent?  Yeah, I think it's the latter.

 

Taylor's in this tier, too.  These guys aren't good enough to overcome circumstances, and so far in his career, there have been more circumstances working against Taylor than a lot of the other guys in this tier, which might be the reason we move on from him after this year or, more likely, after next year.  But if some circumstances can start shaping up more in Taylor's favor, he's a guy who CAN be our Franchise QB.

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

 

Always enjoy your posts man

 

 But Matty Ice is definitely a Franchise QB

 

He has had 4000 yards every year since 2011 with a great TD to INT ratio

 

sure he has weapons but no slouches win NFL MVP

 

TT is definitely taking some good steps recently 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

 

Always enjoy your posts man

 

 But Matty Ice is definitely a Franchise QB

 

He has had 4000 yards every year since 2011 with a great TD to INT ratio

 

sure he has weapons but no slouches win NFL MVP

 

TT is definitely taking some good steps recently 

 

Nononono...

 

You misunderstand what I meant.

 

Matty Ice is a Franchise QB now, but it's thanks to all those circumstances I mentioned.  Him being a franchise QB wasn't inevitable in the same way those Tier 1 guys were.

[NoSaint]

My man.... another Tyrod thread from you? 

[transplantbillsfan]

11 minutes ago, just a guy said:

I like this breakdown.

Now where do you put Eli? I've never thought of him as elite, but he has won the Superbowl.  An interesting contradiction.

 

Eli's tier 2.

 

Plenty of tier 2 guys have been to and won Super Bowls.  Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Eli, Russell Wilson are all tier 2 guys, but guys who also prove you can win with those guys in the right circumstances.

 

I think the blurred line between tier 1 and 2 are Big Ben and Kurt Warner.  Both of those guys have played at such high levels, but have also been the beneficiaries of some unbelievable talent with Big Ben having Leveon Bell and Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown over the years and Kurt Warner having Marshall Falk and Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce with Mike Martz calling the plays and then Fitz in Atlanta. 

 

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

My man.... another Tyrod thread from you? 

 

Another?

 

Been here since the beginning of March. I've started 14 threads since I've been here, 10 about Taylor.  I'm barely averaging 1 thread a month.  Plenty of posters on here are much, much worse.

 

No need to enter them if you don't want to discuss, ya know

[Big Turk]

2 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Eli's tier 2.

 

Plenty of tier 2 guys have been to and won Super Bowls.  Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Eli, Russell Wilson are all tier 2 guys, but guys who also prove you can win with those guys in the right circumstances.

 

I think the blurred line between tier 1 and 2 are Big Ben and Kurt Warner.  Both of those guys have played at such high levels, but have also been the beneficiaries of some unbelievable talent with Big Ben having Leveon Bell and Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown over the years and Kurt Warner having Marshall Falk and Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce with Mike Martz calling the plays and then Fitz in Atlanta. 

 

 

Another?

 

Been here since the beginning of March. I've started 14 threads since I've been here, 10 about Taylor.  I'm barely averaging 1 thread a month.  Plenty of posters on here are much, much worse.

 

No need to enter them if you don't want to discuss, ya know

 

Eli is like tier 4 right about now...that dude is washed up

[JaCrispy]

Great post transplant...

 

I would Iike to interject, if I may, that based on your description perhaps Tyrod may be more borderline tier2/tier3?...

 

I say this because on the lower end of tier2 you have Dalton, Flacco, and tannehil...all these guys have received franchise QB contracts where Tyrod has not...

 

Also, Tyrod may not be a journeyman QB (yet) like the guys represented in tier3, but he is considered by many as a bridge QB who surprises from time to time...

 

Just my two cents, but great job.

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Eli's tier 2.

 

Plenty of tier 2 guys have been to and won Super Bowls.  Cam Newton, Joe Flacco, Eli, Russell Wilson are all tier 2 guys, but guys who also prove you can win with those guys in the right circumstances.

 

I think the blurred line between tier 1 and 2 are Big Ben and Kurt Warner.  Both of those guys have played at such high levels, but have also been the beneficiaries of some unbelievable talent with Big Ben having Leveon Bell and Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown over the years and Kurt Warner having Marshall Falk and Torrey Holt and Isaac Bruce with Mike Martz calling the plays and then Fitz in Atlanta. 

 

 

Another?

 

Been here since the beginning of March. I've started 14 threads since I've been here, 10 about Taylor.  I'm barely averaging 1 thread a month.  Plenty of posters on here are much, much worse.

 

No need to enter them if you don't want to discuss, ya know

 

Well im guilty of starting threads

 

maybe not about TT but I do like to start a nice conversation  

[Bills Analyst]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Nononono...

 

You misunderstand what I meant.

 

Matty Ice is a Franchise QB now, but it's thanks to all those circumstances I mentioned.  Him being a franchise QB wasn't inevitable in the same way those Tier 1 guys were.

I'm not so sure Brady was inevitable either.  Brady only got his shot at starting due to an injury to Bledsoe.  At the time bellickick had a career 41-57 record and wasn't the perceived genius he is today.  So if Bledsoe wouldn't have got hurt, he likely would have finished the season as the starter.  Would billy boy have had the support to start a third year 6th rounder over a 3x probowler who was a #1 overall draft pick.  

 

And if he didn't start him, then where would Brady have gone after his rookie contract was over?  Buffalo?  Would he have been the same guy here?  I'm not so sure.

[transplantbillsfan]

11 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Great post transplant...

 

I would Iike to interject, if I may, that based on your description perhaps Tyrod may be more borderline tier2/tier3?...

 

I say this because on the lower end of tier2 you have Dalton, Flacco, and tannehil...all these guys have received franchise QB contracts where Tyrod has not...

 

Also, Tyrod may not be a journeyman QB (yet) like the guys represented in tier3, but he is considered by many as a bridge QB who surprises from time to time...

 

Just my two cents, but great job.

 

I don't think it's about contract, it's about ability.

 

Tier 2 needs more stars to align than tier 1. There are a lot  of QBs throughout history who are tier 2 guys, but the stars didn't align and they fell off the face of the earth. David Carr is the first example that pops in my head. He wasn't a bad QB. he was just in an absolutely atrocious situation.

 

 I'd say the same thing for RG3.

 

 

 The tier 2 guys need help in different ways. David Carr needed an OL. RG3 was a bit of a head case, so I think his issues had more to do with guidance in terms of leadership.

 

 

 It's almost revisionist history, don't you think? Remember all the conversation in the 2012 draft? RG3 was viewed by many as one of the best prospects to come out in years, and if it weren't for luck coming out in the same year, he was the clear-cut number one draft choice.

 

 Some QBs were just destined for tier 3 or below. I think EJ was always one of those guys, sadly. He just never had it upstairs. And I'm not talking about intelligence, I'm talking about IT.

 

 

 Tier 2 guys are never solidly in tear one or solidly in tear three. There will be years where we'll talk about them as elite guys like we did with Ryan last year or  Tannehill and his second or third year (I can't remember which) or Kaepernick as he began his career or the other way around like Goff last year.

 

 Once you know you have a tier 2 guy, I think you need to make a very abrupt choice: keep shooting for a tier one guy and probably miss or build your team and system to suit the tier 2 guy's strengths.

 

 You can keep looking for a tear one guy. But once you start adopting your system and bringing in players for the tier 2 guy, you're probably going to be bringing in some W-2s,  which would mean you'd have to somehow luck out in getting your tier one guy. But then again, all the teams that have tier one guys lucked out, one way or another.

3 minutes ago, bmacdona said:

I'm not so sure Brady was inevitable either.  Brady only got his shot at starting due to an injury to Bledsoe.  At the time bellickick had a career 41-57 record and wasn't the perceived genius he is today.  So if Bledsoe wouldn't have got hurt, he likely would have finished the season as the starter.  Would billy boy have had the support to start a third year 6th rounder over a 3x probowler who was a #1 overall draft pick.  

 

And if he didn't start him, then where would Brady have gone after his rookie contract was over?  Buffalo?  Would he have been the same guy here?  I'm not so sure.

 

It was inevitable once he saw the field. I agree seeing the field wasn't inevitable, though.

[Fadingpain]

Don't like the breakdown. 

 

You need another tier between the Tier 1 "ultra elites" and the Tier 2 "most guys in the league".

 

There is another tier there of very good QBs who are categorically better than someone like Tyrod, but who are not the ultra elite Tier 1 guys either. 

 

Your way puts Tyrod in with Eli Manning and Flacco.  No way is Tyrod in the same tier, even if Flacco has looked pretty darned bad this year.  

 

Remember, Tyrod is the guy who would have sat on the bench for 500 years in Baltimore, because he is not Joe Flacco.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

All QBs need some circumstances, but for a small minute handful of QBs there was an inevitability that they'd be Franchise QBs purely based on their physical ability/ mental ability/ intangibles.

 

Tier 1 QBs are the Elite guys (Brady, Brees, and Rodgers are the only 3 absolutes up there with Big Ben probably creeping in, too) who can largely "carry a team," even though with Football being the ultimate team sport, these guys still needed a couple things to fall into place.  Brady would never have been Brady without the Hoodie... same for Brees & Payton.  I actually think Rodgers might be a slight step above those guys because I just think Rodgers and McCarthy have never jibed as well as the rest, but Rodgers had the circumstance of learning from one of the best in the game on the bench for 4 years and not feeling any pressure.  These guys are the generational, rare 1st ballot HOFers that Buffalo was so lucky to have once in Jim Kelly.  But they're rare.  Incredibly rare.  Previous to the 3 (maybe 4...?) guys above we've had maybe 2 other QBs we've seen in that category playing in the NFL since 2000 in Peyton Manning and Brett Favre. 

 

Tier 3 QBs are the guys who are often labelled as "journeymen," "fringe starters," or even "bridge QBs."  These are the guys defined by Ryan Fitzpatrick, Josh McCown and Brian Hoyer over the span of their careers.  These are guys you want as your backup, but will suffer through them as your starter because they might pleasantly surprise you on occasion.

 

Tier 2 QBs are the vast majority of guys in the NFL and these are the guys who have the ability/capability to be/of being a Franchise QB, but unlike the tier 1 guys, it's not inevitable, or close to it the way those guys are.

 

This is where Tyrod Taylor sits.

 

 

 

This is a poor and useless way to split QBs, or players in general.

 

Trying to pretend that the vast majority of QBs have the ability/capability to be a franchise QB is like attaching a giant flashing light to your forehead saying "Doesn't get it."

 

All you have to do is go look at the QBs on nfl.com who've put up stats this year. There are like 60 of them. It's not even a majority of them that have the possibility of being franchise guys, much less a "vast majority."

 

The vast majority of those guys are the ones labelled journeymen, fringe starters or bridge QBs. 

 

A three-tier ranking system is about a half-step up from useless. But if you need to use a three-tier system, the third tier of journeymen, bridge QBs and fringe starters, backups and on their way out -  is where most QBs would be. And that includes Tyrod. Elite is about five or six guys. There are maybe 12 -18 franchise guys including the elites, so tier two would be non-elite franchise guys, the ones who can feel comfortable that teams aren't actively trying to replace them. And everyone else is below that.

 

Any useful system would have more tiers for guys who are extremely young and unknowns or guys with a decent chance of sliding up one day into the franchise tier and maybe career backups.

 

 

 

Here's the guys listed at NFL.com as having stats this year:

 

Tom Brady

Alex Smith

Russell Wilson

Carson Wentz

Drew Brees

Matt Ryan 

Kirk Cousins 

Ben Roethlisberger

Jared Goff

Philip Rivers

Josh McCown

Cam Newton

Carson Palmer

Derek Carr

Jacoby Brissett

Jameis Winston

Matthew Stafford

Eli Manning

Dak Prescott

Andy Dalton

Deshaun Watson

Trevor Siemian

Blake Bortles

Tyrod Taylor

Case Keenum

Joe Flacco

Marcus Mariota

Aaron Rodgers

Jay Cutler

DeShone Kizer

CJ Beathard

Mike Glennon

Kevin Hogan

Mitchell Trubisky

Sam Bradford

Matt More

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Tom Savage

Drew Stanton

EJ Manuel

Brett Hundley

Brock Osweiler

Matt Cassel

Scott Tolzien

Cody Kessler

Ryan Mallett

Robert Golden

Nick Foles

Derek Anderson

Sean Mannion

Cooper Rush

Chad Henne

Geno Smith

 

... and there are a bunch more who don't have stats yet this year.

 

And you think the "vast majority" are Tier 2? That's utterly senseless. Any system that puts Matt Ryan and guys like Fitz and Nick Foles and Keenum and McCown in the same tier has no real utility or usefulness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2017 by Thurman#1

[Iron Maiden]

To put TT in the same tier as Matt Ryan or Russ Wilson is ridiculous.....they are much better QBs....I agree that there's a tier missing...and TT would be in the 3rd tier....

Edited November 7, 2017 by Iron Maiden

[reddogblitz]

5 hours ago, Graybeard said:

I like this breakdown.

Now where do you put Eli? I've never thought of him as elite, but he has won the Superbowl.  An interesting contradiction.

 

If a guy wins the Super Bowl, he is elite. That's my system which is obviously different than the OP's.

 

But Eli should be in anyway by the way he won them. Massive 4th quarter comebacks against the eventual 18-1 cheaters.  That's elite.

 

And yes, Trent Dilfer counts too.

[transplantbillsfan]

42 minutes ago, Fadingpain said:

Don't like the breakdown. 

 

You need another tier between the Tier 1 "ultra elites" and the Tier 2 "most guys in the league".

 

There is another tier there of very good QBs who are categorically better than someone like Tyrod, but who are not the ultra elite Tier 1 guys either. 

 

Your way puts Tyrod in with Eli Manning and Flacco.  No way is Tyrod in the same tier, even if Flacco has looked pretty darned bad this year.  

 

Remember, Tyrod is the guy who would have sat on the bench for 500 years in Baltimore, because he is not Joe Flacco.

 

 

 

And Brady would have stayed on the bench if Bledsoe wasn't knocked out in a Jets game.

 

Even Tier 1 guys need the circumstances, like I said.

 

Just not as many.

 

Taylor wasn't seeing the field over Flacco because the team was successful with Flacco for several years. They were going to the playoffs and AFC Championships and then won a Super Bowl.

 

Circumstances really aligned for Flacco in the first 5 years of his career, so much so that he bet on himself, won a Super Bowl and GOT PAID.

 

Then the team couldn't afford more talent because all that money was going to Flacco and look what happened.

 

You legitimately think Eli and Flacco are so much better than Taylor right now? Totally disagree. In fact, I bet if Taylor were the QB of the Giants right now the Giants would be a better team and have more than 1 win.

 

Lots of stars need to align to be a long term NFL starter at the most important position in sports, no matter how much talent he has

[Kelly the Dog]

I think there needs to be at least six tiers. Each has anywhere from 3-9 players. 

 

Elite

Franchise

Sometimes or No Longer Franchise

You Can Win With But Average

Too Early to Tell

Journeyman

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Another?

 

Been here since the beginning of March. I've started 14 threads since I've been here, 10 about Taylor.  I'm barely averaging 1 thread a month.  Plenty of posters on here are much, much worse.

 

No need to enter them if you don't want to discuss, ya know

 

You know it’s bad when a 71% rate for TT threads is considered below average. 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

Any system that puts Matt Ryan and guys like Fitz and Nick Foles and Keenum and McCown in the same tier has no real utility or usefulness.

 

 

 

I overstated that. In one way it has a ton of utility.

 

If you set out specifically to find a system that will put Tyrod Taylor in the same category as Stafford, Russell Wilson, Matt Ryan, Carson Wentz, Philip Rivers, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Derek Carr, Eli, Dalton, Prescott, Andrew Luck and a few other similar guys, this is pretty much the system you'd have to come up with.

Edited November 7, 2017 by Thurman#1

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This is a poor and useless way to split QBs, or players in general.

 

Trying to pretend that the vast majority of QBs have the ability/capability to be a franchise QB is like attaching a giant flashing light to your forehead saying "Doesn't get it."

 

All you have to do is go look at the QBs on nfl.com who've put up stats this year. There are like 60 of them. It's not even a majority of them that have the possibility of being franchise guys, much less a "vast majority."

 

The vast majority of those guys are the ones labelled journeymen, fringe starters or bridge QBs. 

 

A three-tier ranking system is about a half-step up from useless. But if you need to use a three-tier system, the third tier of journeymen, bridge QBs and fringe starters, backups and on their way out -  is where most QBs would be. And that includes Tyrod. Elite is about five or six guys. There are maybe 12 -18 franchise guys including the elites, so tier two would be non-elite franchise guys, the ones who can feel comfortable that teams aren't actively trying to replace them. And everyone else is below that.

 

Any useful system would have more tiers for guys who are extremely young and unknowns or guys with a decent chance of sliding up one day into the franchise tier and maybe career backups.

 

 

 

Here's the guys listed at NFL.com as having stats this year:

 

Tom Brady

Alex Smith

Russell Wilson

Carson Wentz

Drew Brees

Matt Ryan 

Kirk Cousins 

Ben Roethlisberger

Jared Goff

Philip Rivers

Josh McCown

Cam Newton

Carson Palmer

Derek Carr

Jacoby Brissett

Jameis Winston

Matthew Stafford

Eli Manning

Dak Prescott

Andy Dalton

Deshaun Watson

Trevor Siemian

Blake Bortles

Tyrod Taylor

Case Keenum

Joe Flacco

Marcus Mariota

Aaron Rodgers

Jay Cutler

DeShone Kizer

CJ Beathard

Mike Glennon

Kevin Hogan

Mitchell Trubisky

Sam Bradford

Matt More

Ryan Fitzpatrick

Tom Savage

Drew Stanton

EJ Manuel

Brett Hundley

Brock Osweiler

Matt Cassel

Scott Tolzien

Cody Kessler

Ryan Mallett

Robert Golden

Nick Foles

Derek Anderson

Sean Mannion

Cooper Rush

Chad Henne

Geno Smith

 

... and there are a bunch more who don't have stats yet this year.

 

And you think the "vast majority" are Tier 2? That's utterly senseless. Any system that puts Matt Ryan and guys like Fitz and Nick Foles and Keenum and McCown in the same tier has no real utility or usefulness.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Awwwww Thurm I've missed you so much, too!!!

 

I thought it was pretty obvious I meant vast majority of starting QBs in the NFL, but since you're including all those guys with any stats whatsoever, why didn't you include all the trick plays where a non QB threw the ball, too?

 

I'm disappointed. Clearly you don't read what you respond to since I obviously put Fitz and McCown in a separate tier from Ryan.

 

i directly said those 2 specifically were in a separate tier.

 

If you were once someone who taught journalism or was an aspiring journalist yourself, I'm pretty disappointed considering how careless you're becoming.

 

Really, though, I'm sorry that fun effort was wasted

 

 

So, there are at least 18 guys better than Taylor right now?

 

Who?

Edited November 7, 2017 by transplantbillsfan